20 mph Speed Limit Rejected - A Rare Win

[bad company]

It seems that the people of Worthing have decided that they can live without reduced speed limits:-

http://www.worthingherald.co.uk/news/local/worthin...

The guys running the '20's pointless' campaign are to be congratulated.

[Nigel Worc's]

Good, could do with a few more being rejected, like all of them.

I wonder if that council will go ahead anyway, as it is pc now I guess.

A bit like when the Swedes or Danes, whichever, voted to stay driving on the left.

[bad company]

As far as I know this was the first truly organised campaign against a 20 limit. Hopefully others will be encouraged by the result.

Can't see how the council can approve the 20 limit now tho stranger things have happened.

[rs1952]

bad company said:

Can't see how the council can approve the 20 limit now tho stranger things have happened.

As a general rule, councils take the line of least resistance (or at lest act in a way that gets councillors re-elected at the next election.

So here, on the one hand you have a successful campaign against a reduced limit.

On the other hand you have the likes of BRAKE and the local loudmouths who think that a 20 limit is a good thing.

Which group is going to make the most noise, and bend the most councillor's earholes? The local answer to this question will dictate what happens now.

[Willy Nilly]

There was one of them Police Camera Shouting programmes on with Rav Wilding yesterday am and some stupid middle aged woman Councillor complaining that everyone was ignoring her new 20 limits. Then some resident rocks up and tells her 20mph is too slow for the road and to do one with her new speed gun.

[Dogwatch]

rs1952 said:

bad company said:

Can't see how the council can approve the 20 limit now tho stranger things have happened.

As a general rule, councils take the line of least resistance (or at lest act in a way that gets councillors re-elected at the next election.

So here, on the one hand you have a successful campaign against a reduced limit.

On the other hand you have the likes of BRAKE and the local loudmouths who think that a 20 limit is a good thing.

Which group is going to make the most noise, and bend the most councillor's earholes? The local answer to this question will dictate what happens now.

'aint Worthing Borough Council (often criticised in local press for seemingly not caring how much of a tip the town looks), but West Sussex CC in far away Chichester, which has fallen for the 20's spiel, who supposedly look after the roads.
Brighton blew a similar raspberry at their proposals but the Greenies took it as a 'yes' and imposed it anyway. Surprise!

[Mr GrimNasty]

bad company said:

It seems that the people of Worthing have decided that they can live without reduced speed limits:-

http://www.worthingherald.co.uk/news/local/worthin...

The guys running the '20's pointless' campaign are to be congratulated.

"County councillors will decide whether or not to proceed with the plans at a meeting of Worthing County Local Committee on Wednesday."

Are you sure it won't go ahead anyway?

[Terminator X]

Followed it on Facebook, was very well organised.

TX.

[rs1952]

Dogwatch said:

rs1952 said:

bad company said:

Can't see how the council can approve the 20 limit now tho stranger things have happened.

As a general rule, councils take the line of least resistance (or at lest act in a way that gets councillors re-elected at the next election.

So here, on the one hand you have a successful campaign against a reduced limit.

On the other hand you have the likes of BRAKE and the local loudmouths who think that a 20 limit is a good thing.

Which group is going to make the most noise, and bend the most councillor's earholes? The local answer to this question will dictate what happens now.

'aint Worthing Borough Council (often criticised in local press for seemingly not caring how much of a tip the town looks), but West Sussex CC in far away Chichester, which has fallen for the 20's spiel, who supposedly look after the roads.
Brighton blew a similar raspberry at their proposals but the Greenies took it as a 'yes' and imposed it anyway. Surprise!

Yup - I have to admit that my post was more of a stock answer rather than a response after a detailed look at what was going on - I've seen this sort of thing far too often. Just as a couple of examples, the Speed Limit Review recommended raising a 30 to a 40 through a hamlet near me (only had development on one side of the road so perfect territory for a 40) but the local retired brigadiers weren't having that. Appropriate earholes were bent and the 30 was retained.

The next village along had a 40 and the locals had been campaigning for a 30 for years. The Speed Limit Review agreed that 40 was correct. No further development has taken place since then and, a year or so ago, no prizes for guessing what the limit was dropped to...

So in this case - yes - West Sussex Council are responsible for the roads in the county and they have consulted with Worthing Borough and got a firm "no." But ultimately it isn't Worthing BC that gets to decide, its West Sussex, and the results of the consultation are not binding on West Sussex any more than the police objecting to a new limit means that the council needs to take any notice of them. As they frequently don't.

The facts that this will probably hinge on are as follows:

1. The Council has a large conservative majority (46 out of 71 seats) with 10 UKIP members, 7 lib dems, 6 labour and 2 independent.
2. The 9 County Councillors for the Worthing Borough area are made up of 6 conservatives (Worthing Pier, Worthing West, Worthing East, Goring, Broadwater and Cissbury); 2 lib dems (Tarring and Northbrook) and 1 UKIP (Durrington & Salvington.)

If we work on the basis that the tories will support the plan for the 20 limit (they are the council majority after all) and everybody else opposes it, then even if the tories in Worthing BC area oppose it the vote would still be 40 in favour and 31 against.

My suggestion is that, unless the "20s pointless" campaign "have the ear" of sufficient members of West Sussex County Council, you'd better start practicing driving at low revs in Worthing some time soon...

[9mm]

rs1952 said:

Dogwatch said:

rs1952 said:

bad company said:

Can't see how the council can approve the 20 limit now tho stranger things have happened.

As a general rule, councils take the line of least resistance (or at lest act in a way that gets councillors re-elected at the next election.

So here, on the one hand you have a successful campaign against a reduced limit.

On the other hand you have the likes of BRAKE and the local loudmouths who think that a 20 limit is a good thing.

Which group is going to make the most noise, and bend the most councillor's earholes? The local answer to this question will dictate what happens now.

'aint Worthing Borough Council (often criticised in local press for seemingly not caring how much of a tip the town looks), but West Sussex CC in far away Chichester, which has fallen for the 20's spiel, who supposedly look after the roads.
Brighton blew a similar raspberry at their proposals but the Greenies took it as a 'yes' and imposed it anyway. Surprise!

Yup - I have to admit that my post was more of a stock answer rather than a response after a detailed look at what was going on - I've seen this sort of thing far too often. Just as a couple of examples, the Speed Limit Review recommended raising a 30 to a 40 through a hamlet near me (only had development on one side of the road so perfect territory for a 40) but the local retired brigadiers weren't having that. Appropriate earholes were bent and the 30 was retained.

The next village along had a 40 and the locals had been campaigning for a 30 for years. The Speed Limit Review agreed that 40 was correct. No further development has taken place since then and, a year or so ago, no prizes for guessing what the limit was dropped to...

So in this case - yes - West Sussex Council are responsible for the roads in the county and they have consulted with Worthing Borough and got a firm "no." But ultimately it isn't Worthing BC that gets to decide, its West Sussex, and the results of the consultation are not binding on West Sussex any more than the police objecting to a new limit means that the council needs to take any notice of them. As they frequently don't.

The facts that this will probably hinge on are as follows:

1. The Council has a large conservative majority (46 out of 71 seats) with 10 UKIP members, 7 lib dems, 6 labour and 2 independent.
2. The 9 County Councillors for the Worthing Borough area are made up of 6 conservatives (Worthing Pier, Worthing West, Worthing East, Goring, Broadwater and Cissbury); 2 lib dems (Tarring and Northbrook) and 1 UKIP (Durrington & Salvington.)

If we work on the basis that the tories will support the plan for the 20 limit (they are the council majority after all) and everybody else opposes it, then even if the tories in Worthing BC area oppose it the vote would still be 40 in favour and 31 against.

My suggestion is that, unless the "20s pointless" campaign "have the ear" of sufficient members of West Sussex County Council, you'd better start practicing driving at low revs in Worthing some time soon...

I have to say that if the public view is ignored I believe direct action would be justified. Politicians and civil servants tend to forget their purpose is to serve us, not ignore us and dictate to us.

[rs1952]

9mm said:

I have to say that if the public view is ignored I believe direct action would be justified. Politicians and civil servants tend to forget their purpose is to serve us, not ignore us and dictate to us.

I have to agree in principle but, in practice, this case highlights the problems with much-vaunted "localism" - doing what the local population want.

The criteria for speed limits used to be set nationally. In the old days, you could tell what limit would apply to the road you were on just by looking around you eg. No street lights? Then its NSL unless repeaters say otherwise. Development on one side of the road only? Then its a 40. And so on.

But of course the "powers that be," possibly in attempt to win votes/ get themselves re-elected, took the view that this wasn't good enough. "Local people" they said "should decide what's best locally"

A great idea in principle. In practice it has its limitations, ie:

1. The lunatic NIMBYS are given the opportunity to take over the asylum
2. The concept of "local" is open to interpretation. What is "local" in this case? Worthing Borough Council or West Sussex County? And whichever of those you choose, in this case are you prepared to accept West Sussex CC's decision if your sentiments are on the other side of the argumnent, or vice versa?

[Blakewater]

Who do you vote for to avoid these things if you don't want them? I got the "Bluprint" from my local Conservative councillors through the door last night and they're talking about more 20mph limits. They're taking credit for the one where I live just being introduced even though it's been in place for a few years and they've just had the signs renewed and the number 20s on the road surface repainted.

On the plus side, I've just seen today that a 40mph limit up the road that was cut to 30mph a couple of years ago has gone back up to 40mph again.

[crowfield]

In one of my cars, 20MPH = 2nd gear and higher revs, more noise and more pollution. It simply won't drive at 20MPH in third gear. Guess which car I take when I go to 20MPH zones

[Phatboy317]

Willy Nilly said:

There was one of them Police Camera Shouting programmes on with Rav Wilding yesterday am and some stupid middle aged woman Councillor complaining that everyone was ignoring her new 20 limits. Then some resident rocks up and tells her 20mph is too slow for the road and to do one with her new speed gun.

Which channel was that on? I'd love to see it

[Funkycoldribena]

Phatboy317 said:

Which channel was that on? I'd love to see it

Can't link on iPod. Bbc1 neighbourhood blues,last fri,29 mins in. You just know she's got more than one cat....

[foxtrotmike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04plnf4/neig...

29 mins in.

[gruffalo]

It seems from that that the councillor still got her way, the show States then that it was a win for safety but I am sure I read somewhere that the 20mph zones do not reduce accident rates as drivers are busy watching their speedo and pedestrians do not perceive danger on the road and tend to take less care.

[Dammit]

crowfield said:

In one of my cars, 20MPH = 2nd gear and higher revs, more noise and more pollution. It simply won't drive at 20MPH in third gear. Guess which car I take when I go to 20MPH zones

I thought I'd experiment with this yesterday, and can reveal that you need a new car -mine will happily trundle along in 4th at ~20mph.

[Samjeev]

Dammit said:

crowfield said:

In one of my cars, 20MPH = 2nd gear and higher revs, more noise and more pollution. It simply won't drive at 20MPH in third gear. Guess which car I take when I go to 20MPH zones

I thought I'd experiment with this yesterday, and can reveal that you need a new car -mine will happily trundle along in 4th at ~20mph.

He needs a new car? pretty silly thing to say to be honest.

Brighton resident here myself driving the latest model Fiesta (fairly common car on UK roads of course) and it will trundle along at 20 in 3rd if the road is absolutely flat but if the 20 limit is on a slight hill i'll have to go down to second or face an painfully slow losing battle attempting to go uphill in 3rd at 20 before the Fiesta's turbo kicks in at 2000rpm however I can quite happily trundle around the whole city at 30mph in 3rd and 4th, well.. if the roads weren't so full of potholes that is.

[singlecoil]

Samjeev said:

Dammit said:

crowfield said:

In one of my cars, 20MPH = 2nd gear and higher revs, more noise and more pollution. It simply won't drive at 20MPH in third gear. Guess which car I take when I go to 20MPH zones

I thought I'd experiment with this yesterday, and can reveal that you need a new car -mine will happily trundle along in 4th at ~20mph.

He needs a new car? pretty silly thing to say to be honest.

Brighton resident here myself driving the latest model Fiesta (fairly common car on UK roads of course) and it will trundle along at 20 in 3rd if the road is absolutely flat but if the 20 limit is on a slight hill i'll have to go down to second or face an painfully slow losing battle attempting to go uphill in 3rd at 20 before the Fiesta's turbo kicks in at 2000rpm however I can quite happily trundle around the whole city at 30mph in 3rd and 4th, well.. if the roads weren't so full of potholes that is.

Nope. Perfectly sensible thing to say. Modern cars should be capable of handling all frequently encountered driving conditions.