Unusable garage in rented property
Discussion
Hi all
Firstly, sorry for the long post, but we've just moved house, and are in a bit of a situation. We moved into an apartment that had a garage in a block of four next to the main building, went and viewed the place back at the end of September after the long dry spell of weather (the reason that's important will be apparent soon). All looked good, had a look in the garage, fairly old but serviceable as somewhere to keep the tools, boxes, work kit and motorcycle.
Come Friday just gone and we move in with the larger house items, at first the agent didn't have the keys for the garage (just one of many screw ups on moving day by them) so the landlord dropped them off the following day (never heard back from the agent). On Friday a neighbour very generously offered to let me store my rolling chest of tools in her garage until we had access to ours, but my heart sank when she mentioned drainage issues and I saw that hers had standing water inside.
I go down to the garage block yesterday to find ours is pretty much the same, the ~1" U shaped bottom lip of the door was full of water, there's standing water and mud/earth washed inside reaching back 2/3rds of the length of the garage, and some leakage in from the rear wall as well. On top of that I check again this morning and there's a LOT of water dripping down from the ceiling, my tool chest looks like it's been hosed down it's so wet, everything in there is covered with condensation and it drips on you from the ceiling when you're inside
On top of that, there's numerous junk items that (I presume) belong to the landlord, chairs, dismantled table, boxes, all of them suffering from damp exposure and covered in mould.
Now, to put it mildly, I'm furious... the property was advertised as having a garage, when we viewed it (separately) my wife and I both explicitly told the agent, then the agent and landlord together, that we needed a garage to store items, tools, a motorcycle, plus ~£40k worth of surveying instruments that I use for work, and at no point did they mention flooding or drainage issues. As I see it, the garage isn't usable, we cant keep cardboard boxes in there, they'll have turned to pulp in a week, and that's IF we don't get any rain and the floor floods - the tools and the bike will rust as we're only half a mile from the sea and the air inside is constantly damp.
I'm going to get onto the agent tomorrow first thing, but tbh I don't know what to do - we've literally just moved in, only signed contracts, 12month ASTs, on Friday (see aforementioned agent f
k ups) - the apartment itself is fine barring a few minor things and we love the location, plus we've ploughed the best part of £500 into the agent's bullst "referencing fees" and the costs of moving, but the garage, if it's as bad as it is now, is totally unsuitable, and we won't be able to live here.
So, what can we do? There is a drain in front of the garages, but it obviously isn't working properly, if it were clear it may stop the flooding but what of the damp issue? I'm going to have to arrange storage of our garage contents as I'm not having things sat going mouldy
What I'd like to do, assuming nothing can be done, is get an abatement on the rent equivalent to the cost of storing my stuff, and look for a new place, then move out and pursue the landlord/agent for the money we've wasted on this place, possible via MCOL perhaps?
Sincerely, Soggy of Southampton...
tl;dr - Rented house advertised with garage, viewed when dry, turns out it floods when wet, love the property but garage unusable, help!!
Firstly, sorry for the long post, but we've just moved house, and are in a bit of a situation. We moved into an apartment that had a garage in a block of four next to the main building, went and viewed the place back at the end of September after the long dry spell of weather (the reason that's important will be apparent soon). All looked good, had a look in the garage, fairly old but serviceable as somewhere to keep the tools, boxes, work kit and motorcycle.
Come Friday just gone and we move in with the larger house items, at first the agent didn't have the keys for the garage (just one of many screw ups on moving day by them) so the landlord dropped them off the following day (never heard back from the agent). On Friday a neighbour very generously offered to let me store my rolling chest of tools in her garage until we had access to ours, but my heart sank when she mentioned drainage issues and I saw that hers had standing water inside.
I go down to the garage block yesterday to find ours is pretty much the same, the ~1" U shaped bottom lip of the door was full of water, there's standing water and mud/earth washed inside reaching back 2/3rds of the length of the garage, and some leakage in from the rear wall as well. On top of that I check again this morning and there's a LOT of water dripping down from the ceiling, my tool chest looks like it's been hosed down it's so wet, everything in there is covered with condensation and it drips on you from the ceiling when you're inside
On top of that, there's numerous junk items that (I presume) belong to the landlord, chairs, dismantled table, boxes, all of them suffering from damp exposure and covered in mould.
Now, to put it mildly, I'm furious... the property was advertised as having a garage, when we viewed it (separately) my wife and I both explicitly told the agent, then the agent and landlord together, that we needed a garage to store items, tools, a motorcycle, plus ~£40k worth of surveying instruments that I use for work, and at no point did they mention flooding or drainage issues. As I see it, the garage isn't usable, we cant keep cardboard boxes in there, they'll have turned to pulp in a week, and that's IF we don't get any rain and the floor floods - the tools and the bike will rust as we're only half a mile from the sea and the air inside is constantly damp.
I'm going to get onto the agent tomorrow first thing, but tbh I don't know what to do - we've literally just moved in, only signed contracts, 12month ASTs, on Friday (see aforementioned agent f
k ups) - the apartment itself is fine barring a few minor things and we love the location, plus we've ploughed the best part of £500 into the agent's bullst "referencing fees" and the costs of moving, but the garage, if it's as bad as it is now, is totally unsuitable, and we won't be able to live here.So, what can we do? There is a drain in front of the garages, but it obviously isn't working properly, if it were clear it may stop the flooding but what of the damp issue? I'm going to have to arrange storage of our garage contents as I'm not having things sat going mouldy
What I'd like to do, assuming nothing can be done, is get an abatement on the rent equivalent to the cost of storing my stuff, and look for a new place, then move out and pursue the landlord/agent for the money we've wasted on this place, possible via MCOL perhaps?
Sincerely, Soggy of Southampton...
tl;dr - Rented house advertised with garage, viewed when dry, turns out it floods when wet, love the property but garage unusable, help!!
It's reasonable to expect the drain at the front and the roof to be maintained so that the garage isn't underwater and it's not permanently damp. It'll probably have to go via your landlord to the building's management company (or committee if self-managed) and quotes raised, etc so don't expect a particularly quick response.
It's not reasonable to expect a perfectly dry building at all times to store boxes, tools and expensive work equipment inside. Indeed, most contracts/agreements/covenants for blocks of flats explicitly state that the garage is only to be used for storing motor vehicles.
See what they say, and how willing your landlord is to get things moving on repairs. Likewise any reduction in rent if it's so bad the garage is unusable (for parking a car/bike inside).
My garage is in a block and leaked like a sieve - an afternoon of clearing the front gutter of years of leaf mulch and some roof sealant along various joins fixed most of the issues, I'm down to a hole that I just leave a bucket underneath. I wouldn't keep anything in there that I didn't care about getting a bit damp though.
It's not reasonable to expect a perfectly dry building at all times to store boxes, tools and expensive work equipment inside. Indeed, most contracts/agreements/covenants for blocks of flats explicitly state that the garage is only to be used for storing motor vehicles.
See what they say, and how willing your landlord is to get things moving on repairs. Likewise any reduction in rent if it's so bad the garage is unusable (for parking a car/bike inside).
My garage is in a block and leaked like a sieve - an afternoon of clearing the front gutter of years of leaf mulch and some roof sealant along various joins fixed most of the issues, I'm down to a hole that I just leave a bucket underneath. I wouldn't keep anything in there that I didn't care about getting a bit damp though.
sjg said:
It's not reasonable to expect a perfectly dry building at all times to store boxes, tools and expensive work equipment inside. Indeed, most contracts/agreements/covenants for blocks of flats explicitly state that the garage is only to be used for storing motor vehicles.
You're absolutely right, perhaps I came across as a little over zealous - our garage at the previous place was a little damp, after a couple of months cardboard boxes were slightly limp, slight condensation on a cold winter morning - that's the kind of thing we'd expect from a garage, flooding, washed up mud, dripping ceilings etc seem unacceptable to me, and I certainly wouldn't keep my bike in there!!Should mention that it's not a block of flats as such, only four over two floors with a garage block located on the edge of a development of newish 2/3 bed semi-detached houses. I'd be happy to hop up and have a look at the roof myself, I need to find out how it works here though because I think there's a building management company that's supposed to do that sort of thing.
Definitely want to keep the landlord on side, having arguments isn't going to solve anything, but I think it's their first time renting, and combined with an agent that so far has made letting agents elsewhere seem efficient and motivated, things just haven't been done, like the junk in the garage, and the house being dirty, we've just spent an hour cleaning kitchen drawers and cupboards of crumbs and detritus before we can put anything away, etc etc
Will update after I've spoken with the agent tomorrow, and when I get chance to later in the week I'll get some photos of the garage so we all know what I'm trying to describe
The Surveyor said:
What does your lease say?
The lease describes the property:Tenancy Agreement said:
The Property:
--Property address--
Extra Notes:
Referred to as the Property in this agreement. This includes any garden but does not include any shared areas
The garages are not shared, each is key locked and one is assigned to each flat--Property address--
Extra Notes:
Referred to as the Property in this agreement. This includes any garden but does not include any shared areas
The original property advert lists "Garden & Garage" at the end
Additionally, the garage is listed on the inventory, although it wasn't accessible at the time of the inventory check due to no key being present
the_lone_wolf said:
The Surveyor said:
What does your lease say?
The lease describes the property:Tenancy Agreement said:
The Property:
--Property address--
Extra Notes:
Referred to as the Property in this agreement. This includes any garden but does not include any shared areas
The garages are not shared, each is key locked and one is assigned to each flat--Property address--
Extra Notes:
Referred to as the Property in this agreement. This includes any garden but does not include any shared areas
The original property advert lists "Garden & Garage" at the end
Additionally, the garage is listed on the inventory, although it wasn't accessible at the time of the inventory check due to no key being present
The Surveyor said:
That suggests that the garage is part of the premises, what does the lease say about defects to the property. Are you responsible for defects, or the landlord? For a residential letting, I'd expect it to be the landlord in which case chase it up with the agent first thing in the morning.
Yes, typical residential letting, landlord responsible for property defectsWill update when I've spoken to the agent tomorrow
You intend to leave £40k's worth of surveying kit in a garage???? Keep the instruments indoors, they don't take up much space, it's the detail poles/tripods etc that are cumbersome. Can't you keep the kit at the office, or even your car? I'd never leave all my kit in a garage, especially one not attached to my house.
a garage is for a car. If it was vitally important to you that you keep other things in a garage designed for a car then you should have made sure of that before renting. A house is for living in and storing things in, a garage is for a car, a storage unit is for storage of stuff but again you get different levels of storage units some dry some more secure then others, etc.
If drains are blocked in the garage then yes these should be cleared but garages are generally unheated, cold, damp and may leak - doesnt make it unsuitable as a garage for a car but does for personal possession that may get damaged by the said cold/damp/wetness. Much like a basement.
If drains are blocked in the garage then yes these should be cleared but garages are generally unheated, cold, damp and may leak - doesnt make it unsuitable as a garage for a car but does for personal possession that may get damaged by the said cold/damp/wetness. Much like a basement.
Edited by superlightr on Monday 17th November 17:41
Antony Moxey said:
You intend to leave £40k's worth of surveying kit in a garage???? Keep the instruments indoors, they don't take up much space, it's the detail poles/tripods etc that are cumbersome. Can't you keep the kit at the office, or even your car? I'd never leave all my kit in a garage, especially one not attached to my house.
I'd check your insurance on that. Most house contents won't cover a large value in the garage if it's detached from the house.Cyberprog said:
Antony Moxey said:
You intend to leave £40k's worth of surveying kit in a garage???? Keep the instruments indoors, they don't take up much space, it's the detail poles/tripods etc that are cumbersome. Can't you keep the kit at the office, or even your car? I'd never leave all my kit in a garage, especially one not attached to my house.
I'd check your insurance on that. Most house contents won't cover a large value in the garage if it's detached from the house.
whoami said:
What did the agent/landlord say?
Tried three times today to get hold of the agent managing this property, the people I spoke to were all very concerned but I managed to "just miss him" each time...Have now written everything down and emailed a pdf letter detailing the issues we have
Will try again tomorrow to call
the_lone_wolf said:
To respond to a few posts, the survey kit is insured separately, no issues there
Well, other than your kit's not very well secured and if someone has it away with it you're prevented from working until suitable replacements are in place. Insurance or not, I'd still want specialist kit like that stored far more securely than in a garage.the_lone_wolf said:
To respond to a few posts, the survey kit is insured separately, no issues there
I'd double check that Insurance, not many companies would cover £40k of survey equipment in a standard garage, particularly one not attached to the house (and definately not one full of water!).Back OT, unfortunately you just have to keep putting the calls in with the Agent. You will probably spend months getting nowhere until you politely demand a reduction in rent as part of the property is unusable.
Edited by Jimmyarm on Tuesday 18th November 16:39
Jimmyarm said:
Back OT, unfortunately you just have to keep putting the calls in with the Agent. You will probably spend months getting nowhere until you politely demand a reduction in rent as part of the property is unusable.
I figured as muchDidn't get chance to call the agent today, no response from him
My wife also called to inform me there's a distinct smell of cat urine in the 2nd bedroom, lovely, I'll add that to the list - the carpets haven't been cleaned properly obviously
This is the letter I sent him yesterday:
The letter said:
17th November 2014
[Our address]
Dear [agent],
I tried to contact you today via the office telephone number but after leaving a message with Stephanie to call me back urgently I received no response, so I'm writing this letter. I was trying to contact you to inform you that while most things are fine, there's a few issues we're having with the property.
Firstly, the garage – when we were given keys on Friday 14th we weren't given a garage key, it was only after prompting [the agent] that the missing keys were dropped off the following day.
Upon opening the door, the garage floor was covered with water, reaching approximately two thirds of the way to the rear of the garage, this was standing water, and a slew of mud and dirt has also washed into the garage with it. There is also water ingress through the rear wall, and in addition to the standing water, there was condensation dripping from the ceiling constantly, and the entire area smells of damp and mould. I have had to store my tool chest in the garage as there is currently no other place for it, however when inspecting it yesterday morning it was soaked with condensation and water that has dripped from the ceiling.
As well as the above, there are also numerous items that have been left in the garage, a rough list being two chairs, an office desk, some kind of wall ornament, a sky TV box, and other miscellanea. The chairs are covered with advanced mould, and the office desk is showing severe damage due to water ingress. These items are not listed on the inventory and have no value to us, but are occupying space in the garage nonetheless.
As it stands, the garage is wholly unfit for purpose, and whilst I appreciate a garage does not need to conform to the same standards as a habitable part of a property, it is unusable to us in its current state. When we viewed the property, both my wife and I made it crystal clear on two occasions to both [the agent] and the landlord, that the garage was essential to our requirements.
Now I am faced with the problem of having a motorcycle, tools, items needing storage that must be vacated from our previous residence imminently, and having nowhere to keep them. Unless the issues with the garage are addressed within a week or so, I will have no other option than to acquire storage nearby, incurring the associated costs.
Please can you contact me URGENTLY to discuss this.
The second issue we have is with the condition of the apartment itself. When we arrived, we didn't expect to have to immediately set about cleaning in order to bring the property up to an acceptable standard.
As of the time of writing, I have only seen the kitchen being cleaned, but the condition of the drawers and cupboards required removal of crumbs, dust, grime etc. that we wouldn't consider acceptable when vacating a property, consequently I think it is unfair to present new tenants with the same.
Practically there is little that can be done now, we are cleaning the property as we move in and retaining photographs to catalogue the condition in which we found it, this is an expression of frustration more than anything, but it reflects badly on whoever signed the property off as ready to go.
Finally, the inventory provided is, to put it bluntly, completely worthless. Whoever has completed it has missed such items as broken blinds, chips and scuffs on the floor, the list seems to grow every time I look more closely at any specific area. As such I will have to re-write the entire inventory from scratch, which will take some time.
I am currently working away from home until Thursday 20/11, and we shall be spending this coming weekend at our old house preparing to hand it over to the new tenants. I shall endeavour to complete the new inventory in what little spare time we have on Friday and Sunday evenings and try to get it to you early next week.
I understand that this must come across as an extremely negative tirade, but please understand that the many positive aspects are omitted here due to lack of space, we love the apartment and look forward to working with [the agent] and the landlord to resolve these few issues that are present.
[Our address]
Dear [agent],
I tried to contact you today via the office telephone number but after leaving a message with Stephanie to call me back urgently I received no response, so I'm writing this letter. I was trying to contact you to inform you that while most things are fine, there's a few issues we're having with the property.
Firstly, the garage – when we were given keys on Friday 14th we weren't given a garage key, it was only after prompting [the agent] that the missing keys were dropped off the following day.
Upon opening the door, the garage floor was covered with water, reaching approximately two thirds of the way to the rear of the garage, this was standing water, and a slew of mud and dirt has also washed into the garage with it. There is also water ingress through the rear wall, and in addition to the standing water, there was condensation dripping from the ceiling constantly, and the entire area smells of damp and mould. I have had to store my tool chest in the garage as there is currently no other place for it, however when inspecting it yesterday morning it was soaked with condensation and water that has dripped from the ceiling.
As well as the above, there are also numerous items that have been left in the garage, a rough list being two chairs, an office desk, some kind of wall ornament, a sky TV box, and other miscellanea. The chairs are covered with advanced mould, and the office desk is showing severe damage due to water ingress. These items are not listed on the inventory and have no value to us, but are occupying space in the garage nonetheless.
As it stands, the garage is wholly unfit for purpose, and whilst I appreciate a garage does not need to conform to the same standards as a habitable part of a property, it is unusable to us in its current state. When we viewed the property, both my wife and I made it crystal clear on two occasions to both [the agent] and the landlord, that the garage was essential to our requirements.
Now I am faced with the problem of having a motorcycle, tools, items needing storage that must be vacated from our previous residence imminently, and having nowhere to keep them. Unless the issues with the garage are addressed within a week or so, I will have no other option than to acquire storage nearby, incurring the associated costs.
Please can you contact me URGENTLY to discuss this.
The second issue we have is with the condition of the apartment itself. When we arrived, we didn't expect to have to immediately set about cleaning in order to bring the property up to an acceptable standard.
As of the time of writing, I have only seen the kitchen being cleaned, but the condition of the drawers and cupboards required removal of crumbs, dust, grime etc. that we wouldn't consider acceptable when vacating a property, consequently I think it is unfair to present new tenants with the same.
Practically there is little that can be done now, we are cleaning the property as we move in and retaining photographs to catalogue the condition in which we found it, this is an expression of frustration more than anything, but it reflects badly on whoever signed the property off as ready to go.
Finally, the inventory provided is, to put it bluntly, completely worthless. Whoever has completed it has missed such items as broken blinds, chips and scuffs on the floor, the list seems to grow every time I look more closely at any specific area. As such I will have to re-write the entire inventory from scratch, which will take some time.
I am currently working away from home until Thursday 20/11, and we shall be spending this coming weekend at our old house preparing to hand it over to the new tenants. I shall endeavour to complete the new inventory in what little spare time we have on Friday and Sunday evenings and try to get it to you early next week.
I understand that this must come across as an extremely negative tirade, but please understand that the many positive aspects are omitted here due to lack of space, we love the apartment and look forward to working with [the agent] and the landlord to resolve these few issues that are present.
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