Discussion
Having recently read a copy of Sled Driver and watched a 20 minute long youtube video detailing everything about the cockpit of an SR71 Blackbird I stumbled across this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o53u0X0Ik0w
Well I ended up watching it all the way through and thought it was fascinating, and very confusing why everything was destroyed afterwards. Was it something to do with the yanks and their F111?
Anyway, its a brilliant documentary and I'd definitely recommend watching it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o53u0X0Ik0w
Well I ended up watching it all the way through and thought it was fascinating, and very confusing why everything was destroyed afterwards. Was it something to do with the yanks and their F111?
Anyway, its a brilliant documentary and I'd definitely recommend watching it.
The timetable was for service entry around 1970. I expect that would not have happened, with a service entry more like 1973/74.
Given the service career of the various aircraft that replaced it (the Buccaneer S2 and Phantom) I would think they might have been withdrawn around 1993/94 - perhaps soldiering on towards 2000. I don't think any would be in service today.
The name earmarked for the aircraft was Eagle.
Given the service career of the various aircraft that replaced it (the Buccaneer S2 and Phantom) I would think they might have been withdrawn around 1993/94 - perhaps soldiering on towards 2000. I don't think any would be in service today.
The name earmarked for the aircraft was Eagle.
I feel like Candyman sometimes. Say TSR2, TSR2, TSR2 and up I pop...
Lovely looking jet. Too expensive, too limited, too troubled... the end. No need for conspiracy theories or political flag-waving. A government of any colour would have cancelled it. My book covers the problems pretty well - nothing insurmountable if you didn't mind throwing yet more money at the project, but doing so simply didn't make sense.
I think the RAF ending up with the Buccaneer and Jaguar - and later Tornado - actually made a great deal more sense.
'Eagle' was a name made up on a modelling forum. I found no evidence of any serious discussions about naming the aircraft.
The "documentary" linked to is a puff-piece, with various factual inaccuracies. If "everything was destroyed", for instance, why are there shelves full of documentation at Warton, Weybridge and Kew, two complete airframes and various other bits still around?
Lovely looking jet. Too expensive, too limited, too troubled... the end. No need for conspiracy theories or political flag-waving. A government of any colour would have cancelled it. My book covers the problems pretty well - nothing insurmountable if you didn't mind throwing yet more money at the project, but doing so simply didn't make sense.
I think the RAF ending up with the Buccaneer and Jaguar - and later Tornado - actually made a great deal more sense.
'Eagle' was a name made up on a modelling forum. I found no evidence of any serious discussions about naming the aircraft.
The "documentary" linked to is a puff-piece, with various factual inaccuracies. If "everything was destroyed", for instance, why are there shelves full of documentation at Warton, Weybridge and Kew, two complete airframes and various other bits still around?
SMB said:
The tsr2 was a sad story for technology development but I find the avro arrow to be the low point of politics killing technology development.
I think the Vickers V1000 was the low point. A 4 engine airliner that could have been a match for the 707, but could only be built if BOAC agreed to buy it.'We don't need it' said BOAC, we can manage fine with Comets and Britannias.'
V1000 cancelled, prototype already under construction cancelled and jigs broken up.
Then BOAC ordered 707s, 'you can't expect us to manage with Comets and Britannias.'
Or of course the Trident saga...............
Can't you see the fundfamental problem with the British manufacturers though?
They only ever considered one customer, the UK taxpayer. When they were planning a new aeroplane, the expected customer was either, the RAF, thr Royal Navy, Imperial Airways (pre WW2) or BEA/BOAC (post WW2).
There was little or no attempt or understanding of designing aircarft for world markets.
And there were far too many manufacturers. In 1950 there were over 20 independent or semi-independent airframe manufacturers plus around 10 aero-engine manufacturers - all chasing one customer. It was utter madness.
They only ever considered one customer, the UK taxpayer. When they were planning a new aeroplane, the expected customer was either, the RAF, thr Royal Navy, Imperial Airways (pre WW2) or BEA/BOAC (post WW2).
There was little or no attempt or understanding of designing aircarft for world markets.
And there were far too many manufacturers. In 1950 there were over 20 independent or semi-independent airframe manufacturers plus around 10 aero-engine manufacturers - all chasing one customer. It was utter madness.
The VC10 was certainly aimed specifically at BOAC requirements circa 1958. But to be fair the V1000 could have appealed to world markets if it had been produced. And there was a vociferous faction within De Havilland that wanted the Trident to be the size the world market wanted (IE 727 sized) rather than the cut down version BEA wanted, but the BEA faction won the day.
I don't think it was so much that the manufacturers didn't think of the world market. More that they needed BEA or BOAC orders to get started and BEA/BOAC didn't like being put under political pressure to buy British so they wanted the UK aircraft industry to go away.
Look at the BAC 111. BEA said they didn't want it, but BAC managed to produce it anyway with orders from BUA. Then BEA decided they wanted it after all but as a special 'Super 111' with the switches the other way up.
The Britannia is another interesting one. It could have appealed to a world market but so much time was wasted due to BOAC interference that it was simply too late.
I don't think it was so much that the manufacturers didn't think of the world market. More that they needed BEA or BOAC orders to get started and BEA/BOAC didn't like being put under political pressure to buy British so they wanted the UK aircraft industry to go away.
Look at the BAC 111. BEA said they didn't want it, but BAC managed to produce it anyway with orders from BUA. Then BEA decided they wanted it after all but as a special 'Super 111' with the switches the other way up.
The Britannia is another interesting one. It could have appealed to a world market but so much time was wasted due to BOAC interference that it was simply too late.
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