Rochester By-Election. Consequences of UKIP Win on Tory/Lab
Discussion
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin! unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin! Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
rs1952 said:
XJ Flyer said:
I'd doubt it.Unless Cameron is about to announce an EU referendum before the next election and at least a policy of repatriation of all EU immigration since the accession east european members joined.
I have this sneaking suspicion that, whoever forms a government after the next election, even if UKIP are a part of it, you ain't gonna like it XJ Flyer said:
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin! Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
Sounds remarkably similar to Powell, except that the general public didn't like Powell that much either!
Which only goes to show that...you are a berk.
DJRC said:
XJ Flyer said:
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin! Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
Sounds remarkably similar to Powell, except that the general public didn't like Powell that much either!
Which only goes to show that...you are a berk.
XJ Flyer said:
DJRC said:
XJ Flyer said:
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin! Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
Sounds remarkably similar to Powell, except that the general public didn't like Powell that much either!
Which only goes to show that...you are a berk.
Are you joking? He was a useless unkempt dribbling idiot. I well recall his huge role in the Longest Suicide Note. He presented a party political broadcast 1983, it was utterly awful. He was a chief architect of Foot's destruction.
Andy Zarse said:
XJ Flyer said:
DJRC said:
XJ Flyer said:
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin! Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
Sounds remarkably similar to Powell, except that the general public didn't like Powell that much either!
Which only goes to show that...you are a berk.
Are you joking? He was a useless unkempt dribbling idiot. I well recall his huge role in the Longest Suicide Note. He presented a party political broadcast 1983, it was utterly awful. He was a chief architect of Foot's destruction.
DJRC said:
XJ Flyer said:
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin! Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
Sounds remarkably similar to Powell, except that the general public didn't like Powell that much either!
Which only goes to show that...you are a berk.
If you were around in the late 60s you'd have seen the poll which suggested nearly THREE QUARTERS of the general public agreed with Powell's opinions.
It was also claimed that the large public support which Powell had was what actually helped the Tories win the 1970 General Election.
You could even say that because Powell then turned his back on the Tories and endorsed Labour, it cost them the 1974 General Election.
Facts, eh?
dandarez said:
DJRC said:
XJ Flyer said:
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin! Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
Sounds remarkably similar to Powell, except that the general public didn't like Powell that much either!
Which only goes to show that...you are a berk.
If you were around in the late 60s you'd have seen the poll which suggested nearly THREE QUARTERS of the general public agreed with Powell's opinions.
It was also claimed that the large public support which Powell had was what actually helped the Tories win the 1970 General Election.
You could even say that because Powell then turned his back on the Tories and endorsed Labour, it cost them the 1974 General Election.
Facts, eh?
dandarez said:
DJRC said:
XJ Flyer said:
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin! Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
Sounds remarkably similar to Powell, except that the general public didn't like Powell that much either!
Which only goes to show that...you are a berk.
If you were around in the late 60s you'd have seen the poll which suggested nearly THREE QUARTERS of the general public agreed with Powell's opinions.
It was also claimed that the large public support which Powell had was what actually helped the Tories win the 1970 General Election.
You could even say that because Powell then turned his back on the Tories and endorsed Labour, it cost them the 1974 General Election.
Facts, eh?
XJ Flyer said:
Andy Zarse said:
XJ Flyer said:
DJRC said:
XJ Flyer said:
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin! Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
Sounds remarkably similar to Powell, except that the general public didn't like Powell that much either!
Which only goes to show that...you are a berk.
Are you joking? He was a useless unkempt dribbling idiot. I well recall his huge role in the Longest Suicide Note. He presented a party political broadcast 1983, it was utterly awful. He was a chief architect of Foot's destruction.
Andy Zarse said:
XJ Flyer said:
Andy Zarse said:
XJ Flyer said:
DJRC said:
XJ Flyer said:
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin! Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
Sounds remarkably similar to Powell, except that the general public didn't like Powell that much either!
Which only goes to show that...you are a berk.
Are you joking? He was a useless unkempt dribbling idiot. I well recall his huge role in the Longest Suicide Note. He presented a party political broadcast 1983, it was utterly awful. He was a chief architect of Foot's destruction.
unrepentant said:
David Owen was probably the best PM we never had.
As someone who knew him personally, he was a slimey git who I wouldn't trust to tell me the whether my newspaper has been delivered yet.He and Shirley were however definitely very serious politicians, far more so than any of the UKIP contingent. That is not an insult, merely a correction to whoever it was said they weren't serious politicians when they formed the SDP. Owen for example had been foreign secretary, much higher up the greasey pole than Farage, Reckless et all have every reached so far.
So the SDP example remains the closest, if not only, historical precedent for the current situation. As I posted previously, the parallels are intriguingly close in many respects. Will be interesting to see whether continue to follow closely.
JustAnotherLogin said:
unrepentant said:
David Owen was probably the best PM we never had.
As someone who knew him personally, he was a slimey git who I wouldn't trust to tell me the whether my newspaper has been delivered yet.He and Shirley were however definitely very serious politicians, far more so than any of the UKIP contingent. That is not an insult, merely a correction to whoever it was said they weren't serious politicians when they formed the SDP. Owen for example had been foreign secretary, much higher up the greasey pole than Farage, Reckless et all have every reached so far.
So the SDP example remains the closest, if not only, historical precedent for the current situation. As I posted previously, the parallels are intriguingly close in many respects. Will be interesting to see whether continue to follow closely.
The difference now being that the anti EU side seems to be made up of disillusioned Thatcherites instead of those like Powell and Shore.Thereby who rightly want to leave the EU but probably for the wrong reasons which have no connection with helping the ordinary indigenous working class.Unlike Shore and Powell.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 24th November 01:01
oyster said:
Does it really matter whether a person comes from Bognor or Bangalore? If they do the job better, for less money then they should get the work?
If we lived in a country of infinite space that might be true. We don't and we are already, in England, past optimum population density for standard of living. The UK as a whole had the lowest amount of floor space per dwelling in 15 European countries sampled. Welcome to a brave new world of the UK population driven into rabbit hutches for no apparent economic benefit.
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