Rochester By-Election. Consequences of UKIP Win on Tory/Lab

Rochester By-Election. Consequences of UKIP Win on Tory/Lab

Author
Discussion

unrepentant

21,212 posts

255 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin!

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin!
I think all that is consistent with best Labour leader/PM 'we never had'.As Patrick Cosgrave said '' the only possible Labour Party leader of whom a Conservative leader had cause to walk in fear''.

Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.




Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
rs1952 said:
XJ Flyer said:
I'd doubt it.Unless Cameron is about to announce an EU referendum before the next election and at least a policy of repatriation of all EU immigration since the accession east european members joined.
I have this sneaking suspicion that, whoever forms a government after the next election, even if UKIP are a part of it, you ain't gonna like it wink
As they say a week is a long time in politics and 'if' I was Davis that would be my pitch for the Conservative leadership in the coming weeks.

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin!
I think all that is consistent with best Labour leader/PM 'we never had'.As Patrick Cosgrave said '' the only possible Labour Party leader of whom a Conservative leader had cause to walk in fear''.

Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
So the best bloke who was never a serious contender and who's own party didn't like/respect him that much.
Sounds remarkably similar to Powell, except that the general public didn't like Powell that much either!

Which only goes to show that...you are a berk.

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
DJRC said:
XJ Flyer said:
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin!
I think all that is consistent with best Labour leader/PM 'we never had'.As Patrick Cosgrave said '' the only possible Labour Party leader of whom a Conservative leader had cause to walk in fear''.

Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
So the best bloke who was never a serious contender and who's own party didn't like/respect him that much.
Sounds remarkably similar to Powell, except that the general public didn't like Powell that much either!

Which only goes to show that...you are a berk.
Or the general public get the Party leaders they deserve in the form of Callaghan,Thatcher,Blair,Brown,Minibrain,Cameron and Clegg.Who is calling who a berk now.

Andy Zarse

10,868 posts

246 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
DJRC said:
XJ Flyer said:
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin!
I think all that is consistent with best Labour leader/PM 'we never had'.As Patrick Cosgrave said '' the only possible Labour Party leader of whom a Conservative leader had cause to walk in fear''.

Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
So the best bloke who was never a serious contender and who's own party didn't like/respect him that much.
Sounds remarkably similar to Powell, except that the general public didn't like Powell that much either!

Which only goes to show that...you are a berk.
Or the general public get the Party leaders they deserve in the form of Callaghan,Thatcher,Blair,Brown,Minibrain,Cameron and Clegg.Who is calling who a berk now.
Peter Shore?

Are you joking? He was a useless unkempt dribbling idiot. I well recall his huge role in the Longest Suicide Note. He presented a party political broadcast 1983, it was utterly awful. He was a chief architect of Foot's destruction.

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
Andy Zarse said:
XJ Flyer said:
DJRC said:
XJ Flyer said:
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin!
I think all that is consistent with best Labour leader/PM 'we never had'.As Patrick Cosgrave said '' the only possible Labour Party leader of whom a Conservative leader had cause to walk in fear''.

Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
So the best bloke who was never a serious contender and who's own party didn't like/respect him that much.
Sounds remarkably similar to Powell, except that the general public didn't like Powell that much either!

Which only goes to show that...you are a berk.
Or the general public get the Party leaders they deserve in the form of Callaghan,Thatcher,Blair,Brown,Minibrain,Cameron and Clegg.Who is calling who a berk now.
Peter Shore?

Are you joking? He was a useless unkempt dribbling idiot. I well recall his huge role in the Longest Suicide Note. He presented a party political broadcast 1983, it was utterly awful. He was a chief architect of Foot's destruction.
Labour committed suicide long before that with the election of Callaghan and dribbling idiots don't come any worse than that.Although Blair,Brown and Minibrain all seem to follow that pattern set by Callaghan.IE anti union,cheap labour,pro EU,LibdemCon alliance

dandarez

13,244 posts

282 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
DJRC said:
XJ Flyer said:
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin!
I think all that is consistent with best Labour leader/PM 'we never had'.As Patrick Cosgrave said '' the only possible Labour Party leader of whom a Conservative leader had cause to walk in fear''.

Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
So the best bloke who was never a serious contender and who's own party didn't like/respect him that much.
Sounds remarkably similar to Powell, except that the general public didn't like Powell that much either!

Which only goes to show that...you are a berk.
How old are you? Obviously not old enough or old enough only to sling insults.

If you were around in the late 60s you'd have seen the poll which suggested nearly THREE QUARTERS of the general public agreed with Powell's opinions.
It was also claimed that the large public support which Powell had was what actually helped the Tories win the 1970 General Election.
You could even say that because Powell then turned his back on the Tories and endorsed Labour, it cost them the 1974 General Election.

Facts, eh?



johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

163 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
dandarez said:
DJRC said:
XJ Flyer said:
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin!
I think all that is consistent with best Labour leader/PM 'we never had'.As Patrick Cosgrave said '' the only possible Labour Party leader of whom a Conservative leader had cause to walk in fear''.

Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
So the best bloke who was never a serious contender and who's own party didn't like/respect him that much.
Sounds remarkably similar to Powell, except that the general public didn't like Powell that much either!

Which only goes to show that...you are a berk.
How old are you? Obviously not old enough or old enough only to sling insults.

If you were around in the late 60s you'd have seen the poll which suggested nearly THREE QUARTERS of the general public agreed with Powell's opinions.
It was also claimed that the large public support which Powell had was what actually helped the Tories win the 1970 General Election.
You could even say that because Powell then turned his back on the Tories and endorsed Labour, it cost them the 1974 General Election.

Facts, eh?
Didn't the Dockers come out on strike on behalf of Powell?

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
dandarez said:
DJRC said:
XJ Flyer said:
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin!
I think all that is consistent with best Labour leader/PM 'we never had'.As Patrick Cosgrave said '' the only possible Labour Party leader of whom a Conservative leader had cause to walk in fear''.

Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
So the best bloke who was never a serious contender and who's own party didn't like/respect him that much.
Sounds remarkably similar to Powell, except that the general public didn't like Powell that much either!

Which only goes to show that...you are a berk.
How old are you? Obviously not old enough or old enough only to sling insults.

If you were around in the late 60s you'd have seen the poll which suggested nearly THREE QUARTERS of the general public agreed with Powell's opinions.
It was also claimed that the large public support which Powell had was what actually helped the Tories win the 1970 General Election.
You could even say that because Powell then turned his back on the Tories and endorsed Labour, it cost them the 1974 General Election.

Facts, eh?
^ This.Everything else is just the re written version of history written by Thatcher's and those who followed her education system.The 'big' question in the case of Farage is,is he another Powell.Doubtful.

Andy Zarse

10,868 posts

246 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
Andy Zarse said:
XJ Flyer said:
DJRC said:
XJ Flyer said:
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin!
I think all that is consistent with best Labour leader/PM 'we never had'.As Patrick Cosgrave said '' the only possible Labour Party leader of whom a Conservative leader had cause to walk in fear''.

Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
So the best bloke who was never a serious contender and who's own party didn't like/respect him that much.
Sounds remarkably similar to Powell, except that the general public didn't like Powell that much either!

Which only goes to show that...you are a berk.
Or the general public get the Party leaders they deserve in the form of Callaghan,Thatcher,Blair,Brown,Minibrain,Cameron and Clegg.Who is calling who a berk now.
Peter Shore?

Are you joking? He was a useless unkempt dribbling idiot. I well recall his huge role in the Longest Suicide Note. He presented a party political broadcast 1983, it was utterly awful. He was a chief architect of Foot's destruction.
Labour committed suicide long before that with the election of Callaghan and dribbling idiots don't come any worse than that.Although Blair,Brown and Minibrain all seem to follow that pattern set by Callaghan.IE anti union,cheap labour,pro EU,LibdemCon alliance
What rubbish.

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
Andy Zarse said:
XJ Flyer said:
Andy Zarse said:
XJ Flyer said:
DJRC said:
XJ Flyer said:
unrepentant said:
XJ Flyer said:
That would depend on the idea that going from Callaghan to Blair was a change at all.IE both anti union pro EU and pro global free market economy.Shore would have been the real change and was the best PM we never had.
What is it with you and Peter Shore? You mention him ad nauseum. He never held any of the great offices of state and is little more than a footnote in the politics of the period, a sort of labourite Norman St John Stevas. He was never a serious canduidate for the labour leadership, when he did stand he finished a distant umm... last behind Foot and Healey and failed even to beat John Silkin!
I think all that is consistent with best Labour leader/PM 'we never had'.As Patrick Cosgrave said '' the only possible Labour Party leader of whom a Conservative leader had cause to walk in fear''.

Because as we know 'Labour' preferred/s people like Callaghan,Blair,Brown and Minibrain as its leader and PM.The rest is history.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 21:59
So the best bloke who was never a serious contender and who's own party didn't like/respect him that much.
Sounds remarkably similar to Powell, except that the general public didn't like Powell that much either!

Which only goes to show that...you are a berk.
Or the general public get the Party leaders they deserve in the form of Callaghan,Thatcher,Blair,Brown,Minibrain,Cameron and Clegg.Who is calling who a berk now.
Peter Shore?

Are you joking? He was a useless unkempt dribbling idiot. I well recall his huge role in the Longest Suicide Note. He presented a party political broadcast 1983, it was utterly awful. He was a chief architect of Foot's destruction.
Labour committed suicide long before that with the election of Callaghan and dribbling idiots don't come any worse than that.Although Blair,Brown and Minibrain all seem to follow that pattern set by Callaghan.IE anti union,cheap labour,pro EU,LibdemCon alliance
What rubbish.
Obviously in the view of any Callaghan,Blair,Brown or Minibrain,delete as appropriate,supporter,

JustAnotherLogin

1,127 posts

120 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
unrepentant said:
David Owen was probably the best PM we never had.
As someone who knew him personally, he was a slimey git who I wouldn't trust to tell me the whether my newspaper has been delivered yet.

He and Shirley were however definitely very serious politicians, far more so than any of the UKIP contingent. That is not an insult, merely a correction to whoever it was said they weren't serious politicians when they formed the SDP. Owen for example had been foreign secretary, much higher up the greasey pole than Farage, Reckless et all have every reached so far.

So the SDP example remains the closest, if not only, historical precedent for the current situation. As I posted previously, the parallels are intriguingly close in many respects. Will be interesting to see whether continue to follow closely.

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
JustAnotherLogin said:
unrepentant said:
David Owen was probably the best PM we never had.
As someone who knew him personally, he was a slimey git who I wouldn't trust to tell me the whether my newspaper has been delivered yet.

He and Shirley were however definitely very serious politicians, far more so than any of the UKIP contingent. That is not an insult, merely a correction to whoever it was said they weren't serious politicians when they formed the SDP. Owen for example had been foreign secretary, much higher up the greasey pole than Farage, Reckless et all have every reached so far.

So the SDP example remains the closest, if not only, historical precedent for the current situation. As I posted previously, the parallels are intriguingly close in many respects. Will be interesting to see whether continue to follow closely.
As someone who was there and involved in the arguments at grass roots level in the labour side the SDP were nothing more than a splinter group of the Callaghan union bashing,wage restraint,global free marketeers and pro EU tendency.Just like every government administration that followed wether Labour or Con.Although in the case of the SDP also having the even worse links with the Liberals thereby forming the Libdems.Which is why we are where we are today with an economy in ruins and the ongoing battle between anti EU v pro EU and the Libdems having finally reached their logical conclusion of electoral meltdown.The voters having realised that their economic policy is nothing more than loads of indirect taxation,in the form of 'eco taxes',to pay for their champagne socialist ideology.

The difference now being that the anti EU side seems to be made up of disillusioned Thatcherites instead of those like Powell and Shore.Thereby who rightly want to leave the EU but probably for the wrong reasons which have no connection with helping the ordinary indigenous working class.Unlike Shore and Powell.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 24th November 01:01

Camoradi

4,285 posts

255 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
unrepentant said:
UKIP might hold on in Clacton where there is a preponderance of old white people but that will be it.
Ageist and racist in one sentence. Well done. clap

oyster

12,577 posts

247 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
Reading the obsession some UKIP supporters have with protectionism makes me wonder whether they really are a free-market party after all.


Does it really matter whether a person comes from Bognor or Bangalore? If they do the job better, for less money then they should get the work?

johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

163 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
Camoradi said:
Ageist and racist in one sentence. Well done. clap
I didn't realise being old and white was actually a crime.

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
johnxjsc1985 said:
Camoradi said:
Ageist and racist in one sentence. Well done. clap
I didn't realise being old and white was actually a crime.
No, but making a sweeping generalisation based on the colour of someone's skin is racist.

Yazar

Original Poster:

1,476 posts

119 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
johnxjsc1985 said:
I didn't realise being old and white was actually a crime.
Only if British! Any old and white eastern Europeans migrants you may see selling the big issue/begging are good, and will each benefit the economy to a billion quid each - minimum.

JagLover

42,265 posts

234 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
oyster said:
Does it really matter whether a person comes from Bognor or Bangalore? If they do the job better, for less money then they should get the work?
If we lived in a country of infinite space that might be true. We don't and we are already, in England, past optimum population density for standard of living.

The UK as a whole had the lowest amount of floor space per dwelling in 15 European countries sampled. Welcome to a brave new world of the UK population driven into rabbit hutches for no apparent economic benefit.