ME109 "Barn Find"

Author
Discussion

MintSprint

335 posts

113 months

Tuesday 18th November 2014
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Eric Mc said:
Lack of spares and replacement parts was always going to be a problem for anybody trying to keep WW2 German aircraft going after 1945.
That might be why I'm being naggingly reminded of the Peugeot 'Bhangra Knights' advert when I look at this picture you posted:


Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Tuesday 18th November 2014
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
The Czechs DID have a go with keeping some German aircraft in production in to the early 1950s - partly because companies like Avia and Skoda had become licence producers of German aircraft DURING the war.

They had their own derivative of the 109, the Avia 99 and 199. They also ran out of Daimler Benz engines (this time due to the storage facility where the engines were kept being destroyed in a fire - probably sabotage). They substituted Junkers Jumo engines into their 99 and 199 - with mixed results. By all accounts the 'plane was a bit of a pig. The Israelis used a version in the late 1940s which they called the "Mezek" which means "Mule".






There was also a Czech version of the Siebel Si204, the Aero C-3, which was a twin engined communications aircraft.



And the Czechs also built some 262s - as the Avia S92.



The Czech's experience with the 262 was not a very good one. The 262 had many shortcomings - both in handling and reliability - and the Czechs dropped the project pretty quickly, especially as soon as the more robust but simpler early Russian jet designs became available to them.
What's the reason for the low aspect ratio prop on that Israeli Messie? Looks almost like a boat propeller.

Eric Mc

121,788 posts

264 months

Tuesday 18th November 2014
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Nobody calls them "Messies".

Anyway, it's an Avia smile

The Junkers Jumo engine they were fitted with had been designed as a bomber powerplant which made its characteristics not very suitable for a 109 based fighter. That's one of the reasons why it was nicknamed "Mezek".

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Wednesday 19th November 2014
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I do, I used to play 'Spits and Messies' on my bike with other kids. Sometimes we had a Stuka when one kid would sit on the saddle facing backwards with someone else pedalling. Choppers lent themselves to the role of (Jumo-engined) Stukas as the long saddle and backrest made an excellent gun platform. Of course, being two up made the Stuka slower and less maneuverable so very realistic, we thought.

Eric Mc

121,788 posts

264 months

Wednesday 19th November 2014
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Did you have an automatic pull out system fitted to your bike?

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Wednesday 19th November 2014
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My bike was always a Spitfire wink

Eric Mc

121,788 posts

264 months

Wednesday 19th November 2014
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I would have been riding a Defiant.

Yertis

18,016 posts

265 months

Wednesday 19th November 2014
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Eric Mc said:
I would have been riding a Defiant.
confused Why on earth would you choose to do that? Did you enjoy throwing yourself to the ground in a tangled heap, or did you instead cycle around after dark stalking other cyclists in the gloom, vision enhanced by carrots?

Eric Mc

121,788 posts

264 months

Wednesday 19th November 2014
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I just fancy having a pillion passenger with a machine gun.

TEKNOPUG

18,844 posts

204 months

Wednesday 19th November 2014
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Eric Mc said:
And the first German jet was also centrifugal flow but Ernst Heinkel always had trouble getting the Nazis to approve any of his designs as he wasn't as "pro-Nazi" as some of the other manufacturers.

We have a tendency to give the Germans far too much credit for their technology during the war and a tendency to give too little to the British and the Americans.
The German tech. introduced during the war was because they were desperate. The Allies were content with knocking out thousands of Mustangs and Spitfires - they had no need for a jet-engined fighter. This doesn't mean that the Allies hadn't researched and developed similar technology, just that there was no necessity in rushing it into production before properly developed.


Eric Mc

121,788 posts

264 months

Wednesday 19th November 2014
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True.

Germany ran a lot of projects out of desperation.

They also ran a lot of projects because there was very poor control of war production.

erolb

506 posts

186 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
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Eric Mc said:
The story of how they were "recruited" to play the role of 109Es in the film is a bit of an epic in itself. Well worth checking out.

Connie Edwards was a key player in the story.

Although the aircraft had been kept in a hangar all these years, they were not hidden or lost in any way. Indeed, over the lifetime of the collection, a number of these aircraft were sold off and restored to full airworthiness. Two of them are actually flying in the UK at the moment, one in the colour scheme it wore in the film.

The Czech model company, Special Hobby has recently released a 1/72 kit of the Hispano Buchon and one version of the kit contains the markings of some of the movie aircraft -

As with other German aircraft, they lose a lot of their appeal when not in Luftwaffe markings. In RAF camo that thing looks dreadful. Same for the HE-111 in one of Winkle Brown's books. Looks terrible.

Eric Mc

121,788 posts

264 months

Friday 21st November 2014
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They were only used in RAF markings as distant "backdrop" aircraft when showing shots of the Hurricane squadrons. There just weren't enough flyable Hurricanes available at the time and the Buchons were deemed more Hurricane-like from a distance.


XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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MintSprint said:
Yertis said:
Out of interest does anyone know why they were fitted with Merlins instead of whatever it was they originally had?
They were originally fitted with Merlins. The DB engines fitted to genuine ME109's were unobtainable after WWII.
Some with the 'right' engine in action.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUcENor7X_0

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS1pp6DtOAk

aeropilot

34,302 posts

226 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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XJ Flyer said:
Some with the 'right' engine in action.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUcENor7X_0
Err.... that one's not a Buchon, it's a real 109 wink

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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XJ Flyer said:
Lovely growly sound.

aeropilot

34,302 posts

226 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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Ayahuasca said:
XJ Flyer said:
Lovely growly sound.
The DB does make a lovely noise, especially with that angry supercharger whine.

Looking forward to hearing a DB again in UK skies next summer with the return to these shores of Wr.Nr.3579 smile

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
aeropilot said:
XJ Flyer said:
Some with the 'right' engine in action.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUcENor7X_0
Err.... that one's not a Buchon, it's a real 109 wink
Apologies.I should have worded it some 'proper 109's' with the 'right' engine.

aeropilot

34,302 posts

226 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
aeropilot said:
XJ Flyer said:
Some with the 'right' engine in action.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUcENor7X_0
Err.... that one's not a Buchon, it's a real 109 wink
Apologies.I should have worded it some 'proper 109's' with the 'right' engine.
As I said the first clip is a real 109, but the 2nd clip you linked to is in fact a Buchon, but retro-fitted with the 'wrong' engine biggrinlaugh


XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
aeropilot said:
XJ Flyer said:
aeropilot said:
XJ Flyer said:
Some with the 'right' engine in action.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUcENor7X_0
Err.... that one's not a Buchon, it's a real 109 wink
Apologies.I should have worded it some 'proper 109's' with the 'right' engine.
As I said the first clip is a real 109, but the 2nd clip you linked to is in fact a Buchon, but retro-fitted with the 'wrong' engine biggrinlaugh
Which leaves the questions is a DB engined Buchon closer to a proper 109 than it is a Buchon and which would be worth more a Merlin engined Buchon or a retro fit DB one certainly for the purposes of the Battle of Britain filming.