Replacing headlight unit, easy job ?

Replacing headlight unit, easy job ?

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Discussion

DB9VolanteDriver

2,612 posts

175 months

Friday 21st November 2014
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avinalarf said:
Can anyone answer my query if this is a common problem with 2009 DB9's onwards or with the DBS or DB9.2
I ask because I have not read about this being a common problem and usually,if it is,it would have been discussed more on this forum,or maybe I've just missed it.
Since DB9 and DBS do not have LED strips, I'm guessing they aren't susceptible...

WayneB

208 posts

225 months

Friday 21st November 2014
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avinalarf said:
Can anyone answer my query if this is a common problem with 2009 DB9's onwards or with the DBS or DB9.2
I ask because I have not read about this being a common problem and usually,if it is,it would have been discussed more on this forum,or maybe I've just missed it.
Auto motive LED Technology has been around since 1988 when GM (Cadillac Seville STS) had a LED CHMSL (centre high mounted stoplamp), you would see Cadillacs driving around all of the time with half or more of the LED strip out.

As I stated in my previous post, manufacturers demand lower costings from lighting suppliers (Aston Martin is no exception)so quality/durability of the product can suffer,especially as tooling for the lighting is one of the greatest costs the manufacturers have to bare when bringing a new model to market.

Perei supply AM currently with lighting, I know from talking to people in the automotive lighting industry that their lighting products are viewed "inexpensive"(which is why the low volume manufacturers like AM, Lotus, McLaren like to use them) compared to other lighting suppliers (Magna, Valeo,Bosch,Carello, Stanley, Hella etc.)

If it makes AM owners feel any better, Porsche ,GM, Audi and other manufacturers LED light units fail also, If you don't want to deal with the financial impact of a late model lighting failure, I suggest you buy a pre-LED light era Aston (DB7, Vanquish etc)

Edited by WayneB on Friday 21st November 21:40

steveatesh

Original Poster:

4,893 posts

163 months

Friday 21st November 2014
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Or alternatively manufacturers could source or design units which are not susceptible to water ingress, OR, shock horror, stop using them altogether and go back to bulbs that a user can replace for pennies.

I'm unclear how a strip of LED lights adds anything to the car that a bulb doesn't?

But eyes you are right. It will be the last one I buy. Just as a matter of interest, the other manufactures you mention, do owners have to replace a ful headlight unit at around £1400 plus fitted, or can they just replace the part that breaks, eg the led strip, pcb board or whatever?

triple5

751 posts

144 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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Steve, I was looking that up this afternoon and it didn't take a lot of googling to find similar issues with Audi. A full replacement unit is required, albeit somewhat cheaper.

steveatesh

Original Poster:

4,893 posts

163 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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triple5 said:
Steve, I was looking that up this afternoon and it didn't take a lot of googling to find similar issues with Audi. A full replacement unit is required, albeit somewhat cheaper.
Ok thanks for that, must be a collective madness then!

SlartiF430

1,828 posts

153 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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Try these guys. They might be able to repair them for you at a reasonable price.

http://www.ieruk.com

Moonhawk

10,730 posts

218 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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steveatesh said:
Or alternatively manufacturers could source or design units which are not susceptible to water ingress, OR, shock horror, stop using them altogether and go back to bulbs that a user can replace for pennies.
I guess they would only do such a thing if they were challenged for supplying parts that are not fit for purpose.

While people continue to simply pay up to replace them every time they blow - Aston will continue fitting them.

To my mind, given their cost and function - these parts are clearly not robust enough and therefore not fit for purpose. I would say such things fall under section 14 of the sale of goods act.


BravoV8V

1,858 posts

173 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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Moonhawk said:
To my mind, given their cost and function - these parts are clearly not robust enough and therefore not fit for purpose. I would say such things fall under section 14 of the sale of goods act.
Did you buy your car new from Aston Martin?

Moonhawk

10,730 posts

218 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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BravoV8V said:
Did you buy your car new from Aston Martin?
No, it was a Aston Martin 'Assured' used vehicle from a main dealer. Why, does that change the fact that these parts should (in theory) last the lifetime of the car?

People have had these replaced and the new parts have also developed faults after a relatively short period of time - so whatever the problem is that underlies this fault - it clearly hasn't been corrected.

Any guarantees or warranty offered as part of the sale of a used car is always in addition to the responsibilities the trader has under the SOG act - it's not like this is an item whose failure could be put down to "wear and tear".


Edited by Moonhawk on Saturday 22 November 16:07

BravoV8V

1,858 posts

173 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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Moonhawk said:
Why, does that change the fact that these parts should (in theory) last the lifetime of the car?
Who's to say that these parts are meant to last the 'lifetime' of the vehicle?!?? I'd struggle to believe that any part is designed to last the 'lifetime' of the vehicle (other than the dataplate!)

[i]If[/] you had bought the lights/car direct from AM, then you would have been covered by the bear minimum year's warranty (under European law). In actual fact, you would actually have been covered by the extended Manufacturer's warranty (of 3 years, IIRC).

As it stands, you will be covered by the insured warranty which, we know, is far more discretionary. You may, or may not, get a light unit changed. A lot will probably depend on the individual concerned (or your relationship with said individual).

steveatesh

Original Poster:

4,893 posts

163 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
BravoV8V said:
Who's to say that these parts are meant to last the 'lifetime' of the vehicle?!?? I'd struggle to believe that any part is designed to last the 'lifetime' of the vehicle (other than the dataplate!)

[i]If[/] you had bought the lights/car direct from AM, then you would have been covered by the bear minimum year's warranty (under European law). In actual fact, you would actually have been covered by the extended Manufacturer's warranty (of 3 years, IIRC).

As it stands, you will be covered by the insured warranty which, we know, is far more discretionary. You may, or may not, get a light unit changed. A lot will probably depend on the individual concerned (or your relationship with said individual).
Warranty is over and above stauatory rights, it's whether the light unit is covered by the Sales of Goods act which is important, and if so is it broken within the 6 year cut off period. The next test is did it last a reasonable time, which is a subjective test based on a variety of factors but price and use are,two of them.

I share the belief that manufacturers get away with it because we, the long suffering public, rarely pursue our stauatory rights and take the seller of said item to court. We just keep being bent over backward and money extracted.

With these light units in my opinion they are badly designed or manufactured because of their failure rate. I've had two replaced in under 5 years. You can't tell me it's beyond the skill of Aston et al to design the problem out, or make the vulnerable parts user replaceable for example? Why does it need a full unit replacement to repair what is in effect a side light?

mikey k

13,011 posts

215 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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steveatesh said:
With these light units in my opinion they are badly designed or manufactured because of their failure rate. I've had two replaced in under 5 years. You can't tell me it's beyond the skill of Aston et al to design the problem out, or make the vulnerable parts user replaceable for example? Why does it need a full unit replacement to repair what is in effect a side light?
Because they buy them in as a complete unit at the lowest possible cost and cannot support any internal parts. Gearboxes are the same frown

Moonhawk

10,730 posts

218 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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BravoV8V said:
Who's to say that these parts are meant to last the 'lifetime' of the vehicle?!?? I'd struggle to believe that any part is designed to last the 'lifetime' of the vehicle (other than the dataplate!)

[i]If[/] you had bought the lights/car direct from AM, then you would have been covered by the bear minimum year's warranty (under European law). In actual fact, you would actually have been covered by the extended Manufacturer's warranty (of 3 years, IIRC).

As it stands, you will be covered by the insured warranty which, we know, is far more discretionary. You may, or may not, get a light unit changed. A lot will probably depend on the individual concerned (or your relationship with said individual).
Given that they are sealed and non serviceable - this surely indicates that they should last, if not the lifetime of the vehicle - then at least some significant portion of it. Would you expect to have to replace your sat nav or sound system every 2-3 years, what about body panels, soft top etc?

Headlight units are not wear and tear items unlike say the clutch or even the gearbox. I wouldn't expect to have to replace them routinely.

As Steveatesh says - warranty is additional to your statutory rights - not instead of them.

The fact that Aston offer a three year warranty (or one year on used cars) does not absolve them from all responsibility once that warranty has expired. If the vehicle has a design flaw or a manufacturing defect when supplied - then even once the warranty has expired - the sale of goods act (or the supply of goods and services act - if the parts are fitted to the car as part of a service or repair) cover the consumer in the event of a failure well beyond any warranty offered.

Even if I had bought the car new from Aston - these lights would have still failed, so the fact that i'm the second owner is kinda irrelevant unless the failure can be shown to be due to abnormal treatment of the vehicle by either myself or the previous owner.

As Steveatesh also points out however - the onus is on the consumer to exercise their statutory rights (e.g. via small claims court) - as the supplier is unlikely to willingly uphold the consumer's statutory rights.

This is an interesting article - especially the section entitled "A can of worms is waiting to be opened" (the article relates to appliances/white goods - but the same principle applies).

http://www.whitegoodshelp.co.uk/faulty-appliances-...

BravoV8V

1,858 posts

173 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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Well, if you feel so strongly about it, why not take Aston Martin to the Small Claims Court? I would look forward to the outcome of that.

(Incidentally, the 3 year Manufacturer's warranty is quite different to your Insured Warranty).

Moonhawk

10,730 posts

218 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
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BravoV8V said:
Well, if you feel so strongly about it, why not take Aston Martin to the Small Claims Court? I would look forward to the outcome of that.

(Incidentally, the 3 year Manufacturer's warranty is quite different to your Insured Warranty).
I'm considering my options....

WayneB

208 posts

225 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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X7LDA

940 posts

203 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Happened on my old Aston. Turned out to be both the PCB and the LED strip that had went. I bought both items from Astonbits - local garage removed the headlight for me, spliced the unit open (it's only held together by small clips and a thin line of glue), replaced the PCB and LED strip, clipped the headlight back in and was job done. It's fiddly and need to be careful you dont crack the lense when splicing the glue, but only cost a few hundred pounds from memory. Use a hairdryer if it's tough but a small blade will cut it no problem.

I did post a thread about it. It's crap they can't be opened and repaired. Repairing the PCB is a waste of time though, just get a replacement and for an extra £40 or so just replace the LED's as well. Aston wont do this for you however... Only a specialists / local garage.

Oh and I didn't bother glueing it back up. It's completely sheltered from water ingress. The car I did it on is sold now but two years later I know where it is and the headlight is fine.

triple5

751 posts

144 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Don't have any pics of the PCB do you?

Unless you're doing both lights I'd be wary of changing the LED's due to colour match issues. If it's the LED that's at fault then you would have no option.


X7LDA

940 posts

203 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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triple5 said:
Don't have any pics of the PCB do you?

Unless you're doing both lights I'd be wary of changing the LED's due to colour match issues. If it's the LED that's at fault then you would have no option.
You would have the exact same problem if you just replaced the full unit on one side not the other... Never had any colour match issues. I'm talking about using Astonbits and getting OEM replacement strips. They will probably even match the year if you are worried that one side will be stronger.

Anyway, tried and tested. Do that for a few hundred quid or buy a new / used unit. Owners choice smile

And looks very similar to this http://www.clickdesign.co.uk/supradupra/Dip-Dim_PC...

cayman-black

12,625 posts

215 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Moonhawk said:
Spoke to the dealer I bought the car from this morning.....he says he has never heard of this issue before now.
Deaf is he?