Hare-brained safety 'improvement' scheme results in tragedy
Discussion
We live on the outskirts of Hastings, currently there is a major bypass being built to reduce the traffic using the coast road in Hastings between Bexhill and the A21.
Problem is they are making the road 4 lanes up to the Queensway, but the extra traffic is going to be murder in the rush hour as the road cannot cope with the current level - quite often we will queue for 15 to 20 minutes to get to the A21 which is about a mile.
You cannot tell me that whoever is in charge has not been told of or is not aware of the increased level of traffic once it opens. Hardly a month passes without another traffic survey taking place, perhaps they are looking for a quiet day to use those results!
The only positive is our house is up for sale and fingers crossed we will be elsewhere when the road opens...
Problem is they are making the road 4 lanes up to the Queensway, but the extra traffic is going to be murder in the rush hour as the road cannot cope with the current level - quite often we will queue for 15 to 20 minutes to get to the A21 which is about a mile.
You cannot tell me that whoever is in charge has not been told of or is not aware of the increased level of traffic once it opens. Hardly a month passes without another traffic survey taking place, perhaps they are looking for a quiet day to use those results!
The only positive is our house is up for sale and fingers crossed we will be elsewhere when the road opens...
singlecoil said:
V8 Fettler said:
Dammit said:
Welcome to what??V8 Fettler said:
What have "EMG pick-ups" (?) and appendectomies got to do with traffic congestion? Bizarre.
Dammit said:
Dammit is helping you with the concept of analogy.
Dammit said:
This may be more difficult than I at first thought.
Your contention is that because something has changed (red lights for vehicles are slightly longer) the reason for this is to increase congestion.
This is a paranoid fantasy, and is untrue.
What you are observing is a side effect of giving pedestrians a longer period of time in which to cross the road.
A side effect is something which is secondary to the main result which one is aiming to achieve.
Because this is hard for you to understand both Snglecoil and myself tried to use an analogy (follow the link to get a definition).
Here's an example:
Yesterday I was working on the bathroom, I put up plasterboard, then taped and sealed the seams.
Once the jointing compound was dry I sanded it back so the walls and ceiling were flat.
This created a lot of fine dust.
The dust was a side effect - I did not set out to create dust, my goal was to create a smooth surface.
Now, this is similar to the situation with the lights, in that the primary goal has a secondary effect - the dust in the case of the sanding, and the longer time at red for the vehicles.
So- does this help you to understand that the road engineers are not setting out to increase congestion when they give people slightly longer to cross the road?
Also - I have £20 that says waiting fractionally longer at red doesn't decrease average vehicle speeds in a measurable way.
Be sure to let me know when you have any relevant analogies. I skimmed through your post but life is too short to read about your decorating antics.Your contention is that because something has changed (red lights for vehicles are slightly longer) the reason for this is to increase congestion.
This is a paranoid fantasy, and is untrue.
What you are observing is a side effect of giving pedestrians a longer period of time in which to cross the road.
A side effect is something which is secondary to the main result which one is aiming to achieve.
Because this is hard for you to understand both Snglecoil and myself tried to use an analogy (follow the link to get a definition).
Here's an example:
Yesterday I was working on the bathroom, I put up plasterboard, then taped and sealed the seams.
Once the jointing compound was dry I sanded it back so the walls and ceiling were flat.
This created a lot of fine dust.
The dust was a side effect - I did not set out to create dust, my goal was to create a smooth surface.
Now, this is similar to the situation with the lights, in that the primary goal has a secondary effect - the dust in the case of the sanding, and the longer time at red for the vehicles.
So- does this help you to understand that the road engineers are not setting out to increase congestion when they give people slightly longer to cross the road?
Also - I have £20 that says waiting fractionally longer at red doesn't decrease average vehicle speeds in a measurable way.
Re: £20, please PM me your bank account details with password and I'll transfer in £20 if it stops your nonsensical non-analogies.
I'm not sure it's possible to make it much simpler for you, but lets have one last go.
Maybe you could ask your carer to help you with this, if it's very hard for you?
Your position (or, paranoid fantasy, as it might also be called) is that the road engineers have made the red light phase for vehicles longer in order to cause congestion.
You don't have anything to back this up, but we'll let that go for now.
Now no one is denying that red phasing might have got longer - but this is due e.g. to the green light phase for pedestrians being made longer.
This is not the same thing as setting out to cause congestion - it is a different thing, not the same.
The longer red phase is something which has to happen in order for the green phase to be longer - so the goal (longer green phase) has the desired result (more time to cross) and ALSO causes a longer red phase - not the desired result, but unavoidable in this case.
Now you couldn't understand this earlier, so an attempt was made to use analogy - but maybe we should have used something more familiar to your own experience?
So, lets try that.
When you go to the park and chase the ball you sometimes get out of breath and have to have a sit down - but sometimes you catch the ball!
Getting out of breath is not the goal, it's something that happens when you try to catch the ball - but sometimes it's unavoidable if you run really fast.
You like running really fast, don't you?
Can you see how the two things could be analogous to one another?
The red light phase is longer because the green light phase for the other traffic is also longer, it's not the primary goal.
Likewise, you get out of breath chasing the ball - the ball is the primary goal, the out of breath is something which is caused by trying to achieve the goal.
Maybe you could carefully draw some traffic lights (in crayon!) with both a green and a red phase to help you understand?
Maybe you could ask your carer to help you with this, if it's very hard for you?
Your position (or, paranoid fantasy, as it might also be called) is that the road engineers have made the red light phase for vehicles longer in order to cause congestion.
You don't have anything to back this up, but we'll let that go for now.
Now no one is denying that red phasing might have got longer - but this is due e.g. to the green light phase for pedestrians being made longer.
This is not the same thing as setting out to cause congestion - it is a different thing, not the same.
The longer red phase is something which has to happen in order for the green phase to be longer - so the goal (longer green phase) has the desired result (more time to cross) and ALSO causes a longer red phase - not the desired result, but unavoidable in this case.
Now you couldn't understand this earlier, so an attempt was made to use analogy - but maybe we should have used something more familiar to your own experience?
So, lets try that.
When you go to the park and chase the ball you sometimes get out of breath and have to have a sit down - but sometimes you catch the ball!
Getting out of breath is not the goal, it's something that happens when you try to catch the ball - but sometimes it's unavoidable if you run really fast.
You like running really fast, don't you?
Can you see how the two things could be analogous to one another?
The red light phase is longer because the green light phase for the other traffic is also longer, it's not the primary goal.
Likewise, you get out of breath chasing the ball - the ball is the primary goal, the out of breath is something which is caused by trying to achieve the goal.
Maybe you could carefully draw some traffic lights (in crayon!) with both a green and a red phase to help you understand?
keep fighting the good fight dammit and singlecoilV8 Fettler said:
Be sure to let me know when you have any relevant analogies. I skimmed through your post but life is too short to read about your decorating antics.
Re: £20, please PM me your bank account details with password and I'll transfer in £20 if it stops your nonsensical non-analogies.
How is the last analogy not relevant? Re: £20, please PM me your bank account details with password and I'll transfer in £20 if it stops your nonsensical non-analogies.
Phatboy317 said:
This accident is the first fatal accident ever at that junction, and it comes just months after these changes were mande.
If there's a fatal accident one time and the scammers put up a camera somewhere nearby, then there isn't the following year, they hail this statistic as proof of lifesaving benefits,So by the same token, the road changes are responsible for this death.
They can't have it both ways.
Devil2575 said:
V8 Fettler said:
Be sure to let me know when you have any relevant analogies. I skimmed through your post but life is too short to read about your decorating antics.
Re: £20, please PM me your bank account details with password and I'll transfer in £20 if it stops your nonsensical non-analogies.
How is the last analogy not relevant? Re: £20, please PM me your bank account details with password and I'll transfer in £20 if it stops your nonsensical non-analogies.
Or are you referring to another bizarre non-analogy?
Dammit said:
I'm not sure it's possible to make it much simpler for you, but lets have one last go.
Maybe you could ask your carer to help you with this, if it's very hard for you?
Your position (or, paranoid fantasy, as it might also be called) is that the road engineers have made the red light phase for vehicles longer in order to cause congestion.
You don't have anything to back this up, but we'll let that go for now.
Now no one is denying that red phasing might have got longer - but this is due e.g. to the green light phase for pedestrians being made longer.
This is not the same thing as setting out to cause congestion - it is a different thing, not the same.
The longer red phase is something which has to happen in order for the green phase to be longer - so the goal (longer green phase) has the desired result (more time to cross) and ALSO causes a longer red phase - not the desired result, but unavoidable in this case.
Now you couldn't understand this earlier, so an attempt was made to use analogy - but maybe we should have used something more familiar to your own experience?
So, lets try that.
When you go to the park and chase the ball you sometimes get out of breath and have to have a sit down - but sometimes you catch the ball!
Getting out of breath is not the goal, it's something that happens when you try to catch the ball - but sometimes it's unavoidable if you run really fast.
You like running really fast, don't you?
Can you see how the two things could be analogous to one another?
The red light phase is longer because the green light phase for the other traffic is also longer, it's not the primary goal.
Likewise, you get out of breath chasing the ball - the ball is the primary goal, the out of breath is something which is caused by trying to achieve the goal.
Maybe you could carefully draw some traffic lights (in crayon!) with both a green and a red phase to help you understand?
Chasing a ball around a park by "running"? Why would I do that? I would use good design and utilise a firearm to shoot the ball from a stationary position, thus creating greater efficiency for all concerned and eliminating the "running" nonsense. I assume this non-analogy is to occur in a private park, might cause some issues if it's one of those parks where people take their dogs to crap.Maybe you could ask your carer to help you with this, if it's very hard for you?
Your position (or, paranoid fantasy, as it might also be called) is that the road engineers have made the red light phase for vehicles longer in order to cause congestion.
You don't have anything to back this up, but we'll let that go for now.
Now no one is denying that red phasing might have got longer - but this is due e.g. to the green light phase for pedestrians being made longer.
This is not the same thing as setting out to cause congestion - it is a different thing, not the same.
The longer red phase is something which has to happen in order for the green phase to be longer - so the goal (longer green phase) has the desired result (more time to cross) and ALSO causes a longer red phase - not the desired result, but unavoidable in this case.
Now you couldn't understand this earlier, so an attempt was made to use analogy - but maybe we should have used something more familiar to your own experience?
So, lets try that.
When you go to the park and chase the ball you sometimes get out of breath and have to have a sit down - but sometimes you catch the ball!
Getting out of breath is not the goal, it's something that happens when you try to catch the ball - but sometimes it's unavoidable if you run really fast.
You like running really fast, don't you?
Can you see how the two things could be analogous to one another?
The red light phase is longer because the green light phase for the other traffic is also longer, it's not the primary goal.
Likewise, you get out of breath chasing the ball - the ball is the primary goal, the out of breath is something which is caused by trying to achieve the goal.
Maybe you could carefully draw some traffic lights (in crayon!) with both a green and a red phase to help you understand?
On the basis that you are clearly incapable of many things - including describing an analogy relevant to the meddling of traffic light timings to increase congestion - shall we draw a discrete veil over your continued failures?
V8 Fettler said:
Dammit said:
I'm not sure it's possible to make it much simpler for you, but lets have one last go.
Maybe you could ask your carer to help you with this, if it's very hard for you?
Your position (or, paranoid fantasy, as it might also be called) is that the road engineers have made the red light phase for vehicles longer in order to cause congestion.
You don't have anything to back this up, but we'll let that go for now.
Now no one is denying that red phasing might have got longer - but this is due e.g. to the green light phase for pedestrians being made longer.
This is not the same thing as setting out to cause congestion - it is a different thing, not the same.
The longer red phase is something which has to happen in order for the green phase to be longer - so the goal (longer green phase) has the desired result (more time to cross) and ALSO causes a longer red phase - not the desired result, but unavoidable in this case.
Now you couldn't understand this earlier, so an attempt was made to use analogy - but maybe we should have used something more familiar to your own experience?
So, lets try that.
When you go to the park and chase the ball you sometimes get out of breath and have to have a sit down - but sometimes you catch the ball!
Getting out of breath is not the goal, it's something that happens when you try to catch the ball - but sometimes it's unavoidable if you run really fast.
You like running really fast, don't you?
Can you see how the two things could be analogous to one another?
The red light phase is longer because the green light phase for the other traffic is also longer, it's not the primary goal.
Likewise, you get out of breath chasing the ball - the ball is the primary goal, the out of breath is something which is caused by trying to achieve the goal.
Maybe you could carefully draw some traffic lights (in crayon!) with both a green and a red phase to help you understand?
Chasing a ball around a park by "running"? Why would I do that? I would use good design and utilise a firearm to shoot the ball from a stationary position, thus creating greater efficiency for all concerned and eliminating the "running" nonsense. I assume this non-analogy is to occur in a private park, might cause some issues if it's one of those parks where people take their dogs to crap.Maybe you could ask your carer to help you with this, if it's very hard for you?
Your position (or, paranoid fantasy, as it might also be called) is that the road engineers have made the red light phase for vehicles longer in order to cause congestion.
You don't have anything to back this up, but we'll let that go for now.
Now no one is denying that red phasing might have got longer - but this is due e.g. to the green light phase for pedestrians being made longer.
This is not the same thing as setting out to cause congestion - it is a different thing, not the same.
The longer red phase is something which has to happen in order for the green phase to be longer - so the goal (longer green phase) has the desired result (more time to cross) and ALSO causes a longer red phase - not the desired result, but unavoidable in this case.
Now you couldn't understand this earlier, so an attempt was made to use analogy - but maybe we should have used something more familiar to your own experience?
So, lets try that.
When you go to the park and chase the ball you sometimes get out of breath and have to have a sit down - but sometimes you catch the ball!
Getting out of breath is not the goal, it's something that happens when you try to catch the ball - but sometimes it's unavoidable if you run really fast.
You like running really fast, don't you?
Can you see how the two things could be analogous to one another?
The red light phase is longer because the green light phase for the other traffic is also longer, it's not the primary goal.
Likewise, you get out of breath chasing the ball - the ball is the primary goal, the out of breath is something which is caused by trying to achieve the goal.
Maybe you could carefully draw some traffic lights (in crayon!) with both a green and a red phase to help you understand?
On the basis that you are clearly incapable of many things - including describing an analogy relevant to the meddling of traffic light timings to increase congestion - shall we draw a discrete veil over your continued failures?
Good luck Dammit!!!
V8 Fettler said:
On the basis that you are clearly incapable of many things - including describing an analogy relevant to the meddling of traffic light timings to increase congestion - shall we draw a discrete veil over your continued failures?
As opposed to an integrated veil?But, leaving the veil question aside, I get the impression that this is a subject on which you will not be argued with.
V8 Fettler said:
OpulentBob said:
Stick to talking about what you know about, rather than sounding like a Facebook drama queen victim.
ETA Have another
ETA2 Who do you think the politicians come to, to consult on the impacts and outcomes of engineering changes? When was the last time you spoke to an MP, or even merely a Councillor, about transport and infrastructure changes? For me, it was Friday.
Edited by OpulentBob on Monday 24th November 08:51
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