What tyres for CSCC Modernn Classics?

What tyres for CSCC Modernn Classics?

Author
Discussion

shortshift

Original Poster:

133 posts

208 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
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I'm thinking of running a 1996 EVO in the CSCC Modern Classics but I've got no idea which are the best tyres to run. Any help much appreciated.

andy97

4,691 posts

221 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
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Take your pick from Toyo 888, Yoko A048, Kumho, Dunlop Direzza.


stuartj

110 posts

194 months

Friday 21st November 2014
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You’ll get lots of different opinions on this, but in case it helps I run a 911 in Future Classics and have found the Toyo R888 a good combination of grip, wear rate and value – and very predictable in the wet. They also have the benefit of being able to be supplied by Adams and Page, who attend most CSCC rounds and can fit at track side.

djroadboy

1,173 posts

235 months

Friday 21st November 2014
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Kumho V70As will be the quickest tyre in the dry. Fact!

However, they are st in the wet and don't last long so if you're looking for an all-rounder then R888s or Avon ZZR if they do them in your size. The ZZR isms definitely the best all-rounder 1b tyre available at the minute but sizes are limited.

Dan

Boxster66

61 posts

123 months

Friday 21st November 2014
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I run my Boxster on toyo 888's. Done the whole season on one set! They still have life in them now... I know the tyre well and with my set up they are as fast as anything else I have tried.

shortshift

Original Poster:

133 posts

208 months

Friday 21st November 2014
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Thanks for the advice. Looks like Toyo's are they way to go.

randy

539 posts

275 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
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I wouldn't go for the Toyo.. they are getting a bit old hat now. I'm a big fan of the ZZR and have been getting great results on those in Lotus Cup since I got my head around them. The Khumho's look fast too although not done much of them myself. The 888 and A048 are due for replacement to catch up IMHO.

e36er

293 posts

180 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
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Most of the front runners are using Kumho or Dunlop.

We run the Dunlops, which don't go off anywhere near as quick as R888s.


lukekarts

32 posts

130 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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I've mainly run the Dunlop Hards and they're pretty consistent over a 40 minute race, provided I don't overheat them (they go up ~10 psi).

I did race the 888's at one point, they dropped off a lot quicker in my experience.

A lot will come down to personal preference, though. The car felt very different on the Dunlops compared to the Toyos, with the Dunlops suiting my driving style more.

NJH

3,021 posts

208 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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There is a big difference in the hardness of the rubber between those two tyres, this probably explains why many like the Toyos on damp tracks as they measure over 10 softer on my durometer (Toyo gg vs dunlop hards). I like the Dunlops a lot except for two things: 1) They don't seem to work very well in the cold 2) Getting appropriate sizes may be a problem for many as they have a limited size set available.

I have a question for those that have raced on the Toyos and liked them as I have a set which I will use for next year (unlikely to race though), do you start them at a lower cold pressure to try and manage them going off?

stuartj

110 posts

194 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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Hi, NJH, I have found the Toyos work best with suspension set pretty firm all round (as there is quite a bit of flex in the R888 sidewalls) and about 24 psi cold, giving at most 32 psi hot all round.

NJH

3,021 posts

208 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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Cheers Stuart, a couple of people had said to me they were more like the Michelins than the Dunlops. I really enjoyed driving on the MIchelins just didn't enjoy the crashing in the rain bit so hopefully I will get along nicely with the Toyos. 24/25 psi is where I have tended to start from unless its very cold, on my car both the MIchelins and Dunlops seemed to work best around 29/30 hot. I also like being able to use the 245x45-16 tyre on the back.

andy97

4,691 posts

221 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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NJH said:
I have a question for those that have raced on the Toyos and liked them as I have a set which I will use for next year (unlikely to race though), do you start them at a lower cold pressure to try and manage them going off?
Come on Neil, the new Transaxle Porsche Classes in CSCC "future Classics" and "Modern Classics" are made for you, even if you only do a couple of races.

To answer your question, I set the pressures on the Toyos at 22 on the 924S, which I think is in line with the BRSCC Porsche 924 racers.

andy97

4,691 posts

221 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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stuartj said:
Hi, NJH, I have found the Toyos work best with suspension set pretty firm all round (as there is quite a bit of flex in the R888 sidewalls) and about 24 psi cold, giving at most 32 psi hot all round.
I read somewhere that the Toyos were basically road tyres designed for the track (hence the softer sidewalks), whereas the Yoko A048s were race tyres designed for the road!

To be frank I am not good enough to notice the difference!!!

I think there will be some big changes announced in tyre regs (probably to come in to force in 2016) at some point soon as the EU are changing the rules regarding List 1b tyres. As far as I am aware, and in very broad terms, what we currently know as List 1b won't be road legal fron jan 2016. Wet performance is considered too poor for the road.

I had a conversation with a Scrutineer a few weeks ago who said that the MSA were looking at new listings for 2016, and the current 1b would probably become 1c, with the expectation that tyre manufacturers would introduce new tyres to meet the new EU regs as List 1b. Clubs will have to make up their minds what to specify and who knows if anyone will continue to make the List 1c tyre if they are not road legal?

NJH

3,021 posts

208 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Probably not such a bad thing. I don't think the poor performance in the wet is the reason why our cars may perform so badly sometimes in the wet. I was at a PCGB Championship race at Thruxton a few years back during what were like monsoon conditions. Now I had already seen that 944 and 968 cars on stiff suspension and aggressive geo to get the best dry performance are pretty awful in the wet, however the race was almost won by a guy in an S2 with I guess track day suspension just that bit softer and less aggressive. The difference was staggering, talking to couple of preparers though no one is willing to compromise the 9/10 times dry setup to have a really great wet setup in the bag for the odd time it is really wet, in other words just softening dampers and ARBs is nowhere near good enough. I believe what drives us down this cul de sac is simply that list 1b tyres these days are just too good.

Andy I just might take you up on that offer but can't promise anything we have just bought a house with all that entails.

woof

8,456 posts

276 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Hopefully a proper wet tyre will be allowed at some point
I've always thought it to be short-sightedness by clubs not to allow a proper wet tyre on the basis that it pushes costs up vs performance mods vs smacking your car into the armco as you aquaplane off. All the 1b tyres are dreadful in the wet wink



bromers2

1,867 posts

249 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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woof said:
Hopefully a proper wet tyre will be allowed at some point
I've always thought it to be short-sightedness by clubs not to allow a proper wet tyre on the basis that it pushes costs up vs performance mods vs smacking your car into the armco as you aquaplane off. All the 1b tyres are dreadful in the wet wink
Totally agree, virtually all teams have a spare set of wheels and full race wets aren't that much more expensive, however if during the 40min race it dried up then wets would get totally knackered

woof

8,456 posts

276 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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bromers2 said:
woof said:
Hopefully a proper wet tyre will be allowed at some point
I've always thought it to be short-sightedness by clubs not to allow a proper wet tyre on the basis that it pushes costs up vs performance mods vs smacking your car into the armco as you aquaplane off. All the 1b tyres are dreadful in the wet wink
Totally agree, virtually all teams have a spare set of wheels and full race wets aren't that much more expensive, however if during the 40min race it dried up then wets would get totally knackered
True but then we do have pit stops. Would add a bit of spice to it as well. Either brave it out hoping it would dry out. Stick some wets on thinking it would keep raining. But I suppose it would handicap drivers who turn up by themselves or with a mate vs someone who has team support.

Still I think it would make sense purely on the basis of safety.


NJH

3,021 posts

208 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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It doesn't work though. I took part in 2013 in the PCGB Championship races at Silverstone with well knackered slicks on my car but with brand new unused Pirelli wets sat in the garage. It peed down whilst we were in the assembly area. Nobody except Mark Sumpter elected to dive into the pits because basically he has his own team of guys to work on the car, for the rest of us it would have been one or two blokes struggling with an electric torque wrench and 20 steel nuts. I wanted to do it but knew there was no way I would get the wheels changed in time. It was a bit of a farce really he came out of the pit lane in dead last position but ended up in the lead after something like two laps, ISTR he may have lapped everyone or almost everyone in the end. Those Pirelli wets are still brand new and unused today sat in my spare room because I would only have ever fitted them if the day was a wash out and this is probably the same for 95% of club racers.

woof

8,456 posts

276 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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But the same happens in the BRSCC series (probably all series for that matter)
You have a control 1B tyre but you would always have a scrubbed in set that you would keep as spare in case it was either a wet race.

I've got the same set of Pirelli wets as well. Used them a lot in testing - but then never did the any PCGB races!

There's isn't a straight forward answer but in most short races, you're either going to start on wets or a dry tyre. I don't think you can leave the holding area and start from the pit lane can you ? Maybe you can.

In the CSCC or 750MC 40/45min races there's obviously a pit stop. Changing 4 tyres is going to take about 3 mins - that's maybe 2 laps you'll loose including pit in, pit out. Difference in a true wet tyre and normal 1B tyre performance will probably be about 10secs depending on the lap. So it's alot of time to make up. Same issues arise if it starts raining and you want to go softer on dampers and rollbars. Is it worth the risk of changing something

Maybe it's just down to the COC declaring a wet race and you start on wets
or maybe the tyre companies just need to make a decent track tyre that has better water clearance properties ?

Tricky..