RE: Shed Of The Week: BMW 320ci (E46)
Discussion
3795mpower said:
Forgive me but it just sounds like you unfortunately bought a lemon.
I'd like to think so, but most of the problems I've listed are widely discussed with long guides photographic guides for fixes all over the place. I think I was bit unlucky in getting all of those, but there's not really a lemon problem here - it's mostly over complication (and possibly under design as some parts have been altered in the new versions of the parts).Just as a couple of examples:
The rad fan... is PWM variable speed between 10% and 90% of available top speed. I found the fan wasn't working when the aircon packed up... the ECU sends a signal to the fan at start up, to check it's working and (may) then disable the aircon if it's not. The PWM signal is sorted by a black box, mounted to the fan itself, in one of the hottest areas of the car... it cooks and dies. E36s had 2 coils on the fan motor, whenj the ECU wants low speed it sends electric to one coil; high speed, both. I couldn't find anyone on t'net who'd had an E36 electric fan fail. Who needs 90 different speeds on a car fan?
The door open/close sensor. Most cars have a pin switch: failure modes (a) rust at mounting - remove switch, clean up, replace, cost zero; (b) wire breaks - repair/extend, cost 0.05p for 3" of wire. E46 has a Hall Effect sensor within the latch: failure mode - it just stops working - only reported cure, replace whole latch approx. £140.
I could go on and on....
lol, epic
V8 FOU said:
To add some balance from previous weeks sheds.
Ugh. Wouldn't be seen dead in this.
What a POS
Would rather walk
Kill it with fire
Keep the engine and weigh the rest in
Worst shed ever
Shed has lost its direction
I thought shed was about interesting cars not boring stuff like this
Bring back the Metros
Mitsuoka Viewt was better
Even worse than a MX5
Daily Wail mode... Why oh why oh why does shed feature BMW's? If I bought this my house price would fall....
I'll get me coat. It's hanging up in the shed...
Ugh. Wouldn't be seen dead in this.
What a POS
Would rather walk
Kill it with fire
Keep the engine and weigh the rest in
Worst shed ever
Shed has lost its direction
I thought shed was about interesting cars not boring stuff like this
Bring back the Metros
Mitsuoka Viewt was better
Even worse than a MX5
Daily Wail mode... Why oh why oh why does shed feature BMW's? If I bought this my house price would fall....
I'll get me coat. It's hanging up in the shed...
defblade said:
3795mpower said:
Forgive me but it just sounds like you unfortunately bought a lemon.
I'd like to think so, but most of the problems I've listed are widely discussed with long guides photographic guides for fixes all over the place. I think I was bit unlucky in getting all of those, but there's not really a lemon problem here - it's mostly over complication (and possibly under design as some parts have been altered in the new versions of the parts).Just as a couple of examples:
The rad fan... is PWM variable speed between 10% and 90% of available top speed. I found the fan wasn't working when the aircon packed up... the ECU sends a signal to the fan at start up, to check it's working and (may) then disable the aircon if it's not. The PWM signal is sorted by a black box, mounted to the fan itself, in one of the hottest areas of the car... it cooks and dies. E36s had 2 coils on the fan motor, whenj the ECU wants low speed it sends electric to one coil; high speed, both. I couldn't find anyone on t'net who'd had an E36 electric fan fail. Who needs 90 different speeds on a car fan?
The door open/close sensor. Most cars have a pin switch: failure modes (a) rust at mounting - remove switch, clean up, replace, cost zero; (b) wire breaks - repair/extend, cost 0.05p for 3" of wire. E46 has a Hall Effect sensor within the latch: failure mode - it just stops working - only reported cure, replace whole latch approx. £140.
I could go on and on....
I have had three E46s, a 318i SE, a 330Ci sport and another 330Ci sport. They cost £1000, £2250 and £2750 respectively.
All three have been fantastic cars, there are no better all rounders for the money.
My criteria when I was looking for cars were as follows:
1 Sub £3000
2 RWD
3 Manual
4 Not slow
5 Fun to chuck around
6 Smart enough to turn up to business meetings in.
7 Comfortable and refined enough for long journeys.
My current E46
1. cost £2750
2. It's definitely RWD
3. 5 speed manual
4. 0-60 in 6.0s - 231bhp - limited to 155mph
5. Absolute hoot with DSC off, can get hilariously sideways. Been to the ring a few time and the 330 easily puts in bridge to gantry times under 9 minutes.
6. Most people I have driven in the car comment on how much they like it, very few believe it cost under £3000. I have had all kind of comments along the lines of "must be doing well to afford a car like that!" Quite funny really.
7. Really comfy bolstered leather electrically adjustable seats, pneumatic adjustable lumbar support, seat heating, seat position and mirror memory, rain sensing wipers, auto headlights, auto dimming rear view mirror, Cruise control, 12 speaker Harman Kardon sound system with CD changer and aux input. Heated, electric folding and electrically adjustable door mirrors, climate control ect ect. As people have already mentioned, it hides it's speed well. Quiet and insulated when not hooning.
The 3 series isn't the best at anything, but it does do pretty much everything quite well.
It's not without it's flaws however. The E46 has quite few well know reliability issues (expansion tank, bottom arm bushes, arch rusting ect) despite it being a solidly built and well designed car.
The main thing I would change would be to swap it for an E46 M3.
All three have been fantastic cars, there are no better all rounders for the money.
My criteria when I was looking for cars were as follows:
1 Sub £3000
2 RWD
3 Manual
4 Not slow
5 Fun to chuck around
6 Smart enough to turn up to business meetings in.
7 Comfortable and refined enough for long journeys.
My current E46
1. cost £2750
2. It's definitely RWD
3. 5 speed manual
4. 0-60 in 6.0s - 231bhp - limited to 155mph
5. Absolute hoot with DSC off, can get hilariously sideways. Been to the ring a few time and the 330 easily puts in bridge to gantry times under 9 minutes.
6. Most people I have driven in the car comment on how much they like it, very few believe it cost under £3000. I have had all kind of comments along the lines of "must be doing well to afford a car like that!" Quite funny really.
7. Really comfy bolstered leather electrically adjustable seats, pneumatic adjustable lumbar support, seat heating, seat position and mirror memory, rain sensing wipers, auto headlights, auto dimming rear view mirror, Cruise control, 12 speaker Harman Kardon sound system with CD changer and aux input. Heated, electric folding and electrically adjustable door mirrors, climate control ect ect. As people have already mentioned, it hides it's speed well. Quiet and insulated when not hooning.
The 3 series isn't the best at anything, but it does do pretty much everything quite well.
It's not without it's flaws however. The E46 has quite few well know reliability issues (expansion tank, bottom arm bushes, arch rusting ect) despite it being a solidly built and well designed car.
The main thing I would change would be to swap it for an E46 M3.
I am certainly not a BMW fanboy, but this year had the pleasure to drive a 51 plate diesel 3 home from Autosport Birmingham to Kent, then a 52 plate petrol 318 or something on an airfield trackday. As a £1,000 means of transport I think the shed would be excellent, the ones I drove both did nothing offensive whatsoever. Bt also they did nothing of interest either, despite disabling as best I could all the stability stuff on the airfield it was just supermarket sliced white loaf. Bland and Germanic. Maybe 170bhp would liven it up??
StuntmanMike said:
No, you bought a lemon, having owned an E46 330ci for nearly 5 years it has cost me sod all, which is why I have still got it, had an E36 328 before it, whilst it was reliable it was a rot box.
Seems like about 1 in 3 is a lemon, then... glad yours is a good'un and I wish you many happy years in it... but to buy another one... do you feel lucky, punk?138 comments - not bad for a 'boring' car. Certainly one lots of people have an opinion about.
On the subject of the low price, values for mainstream 'premium' brands are always going to drop off steeply after a certain amount of time, the kudos of owning a BMW/Audi etc doesn't really exist once the car is old and brand kudos is important to a lot of these manufacturers target market. When you are talking about Mazda/Nissan etc this isn't so much of an issue.
On the subject of the low price, values for mainstream 'premium' brands are always going to drop off steeply after a certain amount of time, the kudos of owning a BMW/Audi etc doesn't really exist once the car is old and brand kudos is important to a lot of these manufacturers target market. When you are talking about Mazda/Nissan etc this isn't so much of an issue.
In my experience the 2.2 is actually thirstier than the bigger 6-cyls, in fact the E46 320i my mum used to own was the least economical BMW we have owned, and downright guzzled on a spirited drive. Furthermore the difference in insurance premium for me between E36 318i and E36 328i was about £20 a year so negligable.
I do, however agree that these smaller 6-pots are sweet as a nut to drive, whisper-quiet and smooth round the town, and on a spirited drive positively sing their little hearts out (although, with the thirst, one tends not to want to drop the hammer all that often...). However having driven an early E46 328i back to back with a post 01 (but pre-facelift) 320i the 320i was actually a nicer drive.
I do, however agree that these smaller 6-pots are sweet as a nut to drive, whisper-quiet and smooth round the town, and on a spirited drive positively sing their little hearts out (although, with the thirst, one tends not to want to drop the hammer all that often...). However having driven an early E46 328i back to back with a post 01 (but pre-facelift) 320i the 320i was actually a nicer drive.
V8RX7 said:
Agreed.
I've had an E46 328 Touring which was dull then I was told that the 330 Sport was far better with different suspension etc - it was just as dull.
The E36 was duller than the E30 and the E46 was duller again - OK as a motorway car but dull, dull, dull and this shed is slower too !
Not sure I really agree...I've owned E30s (320i Touring, 325i SE 4dr, 320i SE 2dr, 318 (M10) 2dr and M3...which I still own), an E36 328i SE saloon and now have an E46 330i SE Touring (purchased for "shed money back in January)...I've had an E46 328 Touring which was dull then I was told that the 330 Sport was far better with different suspension etc - it was just as dull.
The E36 was duller than the E30 and the E46 was duller again - OK as a motorway car but dull, dull, dull and this shed is slower too !
The E30 325i and the M3 are exciting enough (the lower powered models are pretty boring, tbh), but the E36 328i felt more "grown up" and handled at least as well as the E30 325i with a much better ride and better standard equipment.
The E46 I have is not really much different to the E36 I swapped it for...Perhaps the (sports)seats aren't *quite* as good and the bodywork does feel a little less robust, but all in all it isn't a huge step change in either direction.
Bearing in mind all (other than the M3) are standard family saloon or estate cars, I'd offer the proposition that there aren't many other alternatives that are any less "dull" and quite a few that are a lot more boring to look at and drive!
BRMMA said:
I still really like the E46, i think it's a good looking car, not over the top styled but quite handsome.
When i had mine though i didn't find it that great to drive, it was my first BMW and had always heard of the "ultimate driving machine" marketing so maybe i had too high expectations
They're great cars to live with and drive round day-to-day but they certainly don't have the same 'soul' the E36 had... and E30 people say the same about the E36, haha! When i had mine though i didn't find it that great to drive, it was my first BMW and had always heard of the "ultimate driving machine" marketing so maybe i had too high expectations
As a previous owner of E30 and E36 before my current E46, I would rate them as follows:
E30 - sublime fun chassis, but I wonder if that has something to do with the comparative cars of the time? Mine was only a 316i but I had immense fun trying to swing it about. Great to look at in top M-Sport spec. Back end looks very dated now but the front will be legend forever.
E36 - really liked the E36 coupe to look at but was a bit disappointed with the handling after reading so much about it. It had tired shocks so I got some coilovers and laser alignment for it which transformed it but was never amazing. Subtle OEM modification makes the best looking 3 series ever.
E46 - Just combines the best bits of the other two variants into one sweet package with the downfall of rotting wings! Second only in looks to a subtly modifed E36.
I've owned these between 9 years of ownership - it could be argued that I like the E46 so much because my tastes / requirements are changing with age?
E30 - sublime fun chassis, but I wonder if that has something to do with the comparative cars of the time? Mine was only a 316i but I had immense fun trying to swing it about. Great to look at in top M-Sport spec. Back end looks very dated now but the front will be legend forever.
E36 - really liked the E36 coupe to look at but was a bit disappointed with the handling after reading so much about it. It had tired shocks so I got some coilovers and laser alignment for it which transformed it but was never amazing. Subtle OEM modification makes the best looking 3 series ever.
E46 - Just combines the best bits of the other two variants into one sweet package with the downfall of rotting wings! Second only in looks to a subtly modifed E36.
I've owned these between 9 years of ownership - it could be argued that I like the E46 so much because my tastes / requirements are changing with age?
This was my 2003 320i Sport saloon (manual). It was/is a brilliant car and I was originally looking for a 330Ci (coupé) as a replacement but couldn't find one with the spec/mileage/condition I wanted, despite being on the lookout for over a year...hence the Mini JCW I have now.
Now most people would say that the JCW is a proper "PH" sort of car...but let me tell you; there are a few things it could learn from the E46 - steering feel being one. You'd be correct in saying that the E46 is not a sports car but I think of it, in coupé guise, as more of a GT. - A 330Ci like a "working man's Aston" and I'd much prefer a good example to most of the dross that's being churned-out at the moment.
The E46 I had was the marmite "ti" / compact in 4 pot trim.
(It was a run around nothing more)
My nephew has an E36 328i ( which featured a write up on PH a few months ago).
The E36 is fitted with Bilstein suspension (fitted by us)
My E46 compact fitted from the factory with "sport" suspension.
I frequently drove both cars back to back over several years and chassis wise there
Was nothing that would make me choose the E36 over the E46.
The E46 had better body control, less roll, faster steering and really benefitted from a stiffer shell.
There was less understeer (and more wet weather oversteer) to be had.
Reading some of the comments here I'm guessing the E46 can be quite spec dependant in regards
To how well it drives.
Non //M models came in three flavours of suspension...standard, sport & eventually Msport.
Standard saloons had standard suspension (no shock there).
Coupe's & Compacts had "sport" as standard.
Msports had...you guessed it, Msport set up.
My compact was very sweet to drive, having driven Msport 325/330's which are quite choppy, the "sport"
Suspension is a nice compromise.
I've also found (with this and other Bmw's) that the lower weight of the 4 pot motors give much nicer turn in
And balance, if of course at the expense of straight line grunt.
My current daily is an E90 325i Msport.
Chassis wise I don't feel it brings much to the table over a "good" E46.
Blame runflats, being over tyred (on 18's) and excessive steering weight.
It looks the part but give me the old chassis on a nice road....
I currently keep sniggering at how small the standard rims are on basic facelift Insignia's
(16's as opposed to the average 17/18'ers) but I suspect the driver is having a better time.
Time for another discussion methinks..."large rims ruin cars"....
(It was a run around nothing more)
My nephew has an E36 328i ( which featured a write up on PH a few months ago).
The E36 is fitted with Bilstein suspension (fitted by us)
My E46 compact fitted from the factory with "sport" suspension.
I frequently drove both cars back to back over several years and chassis wise there
Was nothing that would make me choose the E36 over the E46.
The E46 had better body control, less roll, faster steering and really benefitted from a stiffer shell.
There was less understeer (and more wet weather oversteer) to be had.
Reading some of the comments here I'm guessing the E46 can be quite spec dependant in regards
To how well it drives.
Non //M models came in three flavours of suspension...standard, sport & eventually Msport.
Standard saloons had standard suspension (no shock there).
Coupe's & Compacts had "sport" as standard.
Msports had...you guessed it, Msport set up.
My compact was very sweet to drive, having driven Msport 325/330's which are quite choppy, the "sport"
Suspension is a nice compromise.
I've also found (with this and other Bmw's) that the lower weight of the 4 pot motors give much nicer turn in
And balance, if of course at the expense of straight line grunt.
My current daily is an E90 325i Msport.
Chassis wise I don't feel it brings much to the table over a "good" E46.
Blame runflats, being over tyred (on 18's) and excessive steering weight.
It looks the part but give me the old chassis on a nice road....
I currently keep sniggering at how small the standard rims are on basic facelift Insignia's
(16's as opposed to the average 17/18'ers) but I suspect the driver is having a better time.
Time for another discussion methinks..."large rims ruin cars"....
Zircon said:
E46 - Just combines the best bits of the other two variants into one sweet package with the downfall of rotting wings! Second only in looks to a subtly modifed E36.
I've owned these between 9 years of ownership - it could be argued that I like the E46 so much because my tastes / requirements are changing with age?
Agree almost totally.I've owned these between 9 years of ownership - it could be argued that I like the E46 so much because my tastes / requirements are changing with age?
There is an element of "us" wanting a more grown up drive as we get older (without realising it).
It has often been discussed on the M5 forum I belong to that the newer models were engineered by many
Of the same guys who designed the originals, but as time had passed their tastes had changed as they got older
And this came out in the cars they later produced.
3795mpower said:
The E46 I had was the marmite "ti" / compact in 4 pot trim.
(It was a run around nothing more)
My nephew has an E36 328i ( which featured a write up on PH a few months ago).
The E36 is fitted with Bilstein suspension (fitted by us)
My E46 compact fitted from the factory with "sport" suspension.
I frequently drove both cars back to back over several years and chassis wise there
Was nothing that would make me choose the E36 over the E46.
The E46 had better body control, less roll, faster steering and really benefitted from a stiffer shell.
There was less understeer (and more wet weather oversteer) to be had.
Reading some of the comments here I'm guessing the E46 can be quite spec dependant in regards
To how well it drives.
Non //M models came in three flavours of suspension...standard, sport & eventually Msport.
Standard saloons had standard suspension (no shock there).
Coupe's & Compacts had "sport" as standard.
Msports had...you guessed it, Msport set up.
My compact was very sweet to drive, having driven Msport 325/330's which are quite choppy, the "sport"
Suspension is a nice compromise.
I've also found (with this and other Bmw's) that the lower weight of the 4 pot motors give much nicer turn in
And balance, if of course at the expense of straight line grunt.
My current daily is an E90 325i Msport.
Chassis wise I don't feel it brings much to the table over a "good" E46.
Blame runflats, being over tyred (on 18's) and excessive steering weight.
It looks the part but give me the old chassis on a nice road....
I currently keep sniggering at how small the standard rims are on basic facelift Insignia's
(16's as opposed to the average 17/18'ers) but I suspect the driver is having a better time.
Time for another discussion methinks..."large rims ruin cars"....
I'm not sure there is much of a difference in the body stiffness of an E36 to the equivalent E46. Also, the suspension is clearly very similar in layout. So any strong difference comes down to things like steering rack gearing, damper tuning, spring and anti-roll bar tuning.(It was a run around nothing more)
My nephew has an E36 328i ( which featured a write up on PH a few months ago).
The E36 is fitted with Bilstein suspension (fitted by us)
My E46 compact fitted from the factory with "sport" suspension.
I frequently drove both cars back to back over several years and chassis wise there
Was nothing that would make me choose the E36 over the E46.
The E46 had better body control, less roll, faster steering and really benefitted from a stiffer shell.
There was less understeer (and more wet weather oversteer) to be had.
Reading some of the comments here I'm guessing the E46 can be quite spec dependant in regards
To how well it drives.
Non //M models came in three flavours of suspension...standard, sport & eventually Msport.
Standard saloons had standard suspension (no shock there).
Coupe's & Compacts had "sport" as standard.
Msports had...you guessed it, Msport set up.
My compact was very sweet to drive, having driven Msport 325/330's which are quite choppy, the "sport"
Suspension is a nice compromise.
I've also found (with this and other Bmw's) that the lower weight of the 4 pot motors give much nicer turn in
And balance, if of course at the expense of straight line grunt.
My current daily is an E90 325i Msport.
Chassis wise I don't feel it brings much to the table over a "good" E46.
Blame runflats, being over tyred (on 18's) and excessive steering weight.
It looks the part but give me the old chassis on a nice road....
I currently keep sniggering at how small the standard rims are on basic facelift Insignia's
(16's as opposed to the average 17/18'ers) but I suspect the driver is having a better time.
Time for another discussion methinks..."large rims ruin cars"....
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