RE: Six great supercars for BMW M3 money

RE: Six great supercars for BMW M3 money

Author
Discussion

TuxMan

9,010 posts

237 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
The Noble is the only Appreciating car out of the bunch !!!
Quite clearly however wrote the article has never driven a Noble or has any experience about them !!!!!

PZR

627 posts

184 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
Pistonheads said:
Ignore the fact that the GT-R is a big, heavy coupe, has four seats (notionally - it's a 2+2 really), a large boot and has a badge as exotic as a pint of milk because the Nissan is one of the greatest and fastest supercars in modern history.
In some ways, the Nissan badge is arguably more "exotic" than the others mentioned.

A company that's older than most of the other companies mentioned in the article, a company which has been making cars for longer than all of the companies mentioned, and a company that was involved in racing (and building racing cars) before all of the other companies mentioned in the article.

Some pint of milk, that.

Driver101

14,376 posts

120 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
TuxMan said:
The Noble is the only Appreciating car out of the bunch !!!
Quite clearly however wrote the article has never driven a Noble or has any experience about them !!!!!
Have you seen the price of a good NSX these days? Not sure it could go much higher than it is now though.

As for the OP, you can have this same argument about any old car versus buying a new car. There simply wouldn't be a car market if nobody bought new and had the logic a 10 year old car offers more than a new car does.

Nedzilla

2,439 posts

173 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
Birdster said:
acme said:
Nedzilla said:
Had a GTR and currently got an R8 and I cant imagine the running costs being any more than an M3/4. The 360 may through up a few nasty surprises though.
Only lost £3k depreciation in 2 years on the GTR and expect about the same or less on the R8.

Would hate to think what you would lose in two years on a new M3........
Given that you have/had two on the list would be interested in how you think they compare? Is the R8 a V8 & manual?

Cherrs
I'm also interested in some more detail if you don't mind.

Are both of those cars depreciating that slowly? Aside from fuel how much did the GTR cost for two years in top of depreciation?
Both great cars but very different. My R8 is a V8 manual do so quite a different beast from the savage power and lightning fast paddle shift of the GTR.
Both cars are depreciating very slowly now providing you buy an early model. Dont let this put you off though as I found mint low mileage examples of both. They are out there you just have to look and if you find the right car you will be fine.

The R8 feels the more special. Dont get me wrong the GTR is a special car but cant quite compare with the low slung,two seat,mid engine supercar feel of the R8.Both turn heads in equal measure though the R8 tends to turn more 'mature' heads and is very popular with the ladies wheras the GTR is more a teenage boys dream!

Performance wise the GTR is on another planet,even in standard form. Mine was only a stage 1 £600 remap and £250 decat pipe which takes power to around 590bhp and a whopping 550 lbs/ft the bulk of which is available from little over 3000rpm.
The R8 does move but you need to get it up at around 6500rpm at which point it sounds utterly wonderfull compared to the GTR.
The problem with the GTRs performance is that it is overkill for road use. A quick stab of the throttle and a couple of flicks of the paddle and you are stamping on the brakes fearing for your license. This became more frustrating than anything and made me feel as though I wasn't getting full use from the car,only using half of it if that makes sense. The R8s performance level is far more suited to our roads and you can wring it out through a couple if gears which is very satisfying without worrying (as much) about going to jail!

Running costs are probably pretty similar. Mpg,tax and isurance are pretty much the same though the GTR will need double the servicing of the R8.
Non runflat tyres are around £1k per set for each and pads and discs will set you back around £2.5k all round for both.

Over the two years my GTR had two sevices £650 major,£150 minor both done at a top indy. These prices will almost double at Nissan HPC. I also replaced one set of tyres and had the mods done. I bought the car with 12k miles on the clock and sold it with 27k on the clock. Pads snd discs were still on the original set!
Costs for consumables etc depends very much how you drive them of course. Some owners get through a set of tyres and brakes in around 5k miles! Mine had a pretty easy life.

The GTR does suffer from a few known issues. Bellhousing,headlights fogging up,audio and dash light failures. All of these issues are pretty price to fix if not under warranty but also not that common and they are generally very reliable. My car had none of these issues.

So far the R8 has had a slight aircon issue (failed pressure switch) but im also led to believe they are very reliable. Mag ride dampers can fail and are very expensive to replace but again not common.

Overall both are great cars and I would highly recommend both. Which is the better car is difficult to say. The GTR is just a monster in terms of performance and slightly more practical with a huge boot and two (small) rear seats. The R8 feels more 'supercar',sounds fantastic and has a better quality interior but is still a car you can use every day.

I got bored with the GTR after two years and always fancied an R8 so decided that was next though in another two years time Im pretty sure I will want something else. It also shows that in cars like this performance isnt everything. I am currently enjoying the R8 every bit as much as I did the GTR albeit fir different reasons.

Cheers.

Jordan Clarkson

375 posts

143 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
StuntmanMike said:
St John Smythe said:
The NSX really shows its age now compared to that lot. It appears to be fitted with wheels from a skateboard smile
Agreed, expect to get flamed for this, but it's the only car there that does absolutely nothing for me.
Aged very badly.
In my opinion the 2001 facelifted one looks a lot better than the 90's one for some reason.

thelawnet

1,539 posts

154 months

Sunday 23rd November 2014
quotequote all
StuntmanMike said:
St John Smythe said:
The NSX really shows its age now compared to that lot. It appears to be fitted with wheels from a skateboard smile
Agreed, expect to get flamed for this, but it's the only car there that does absolutely nothing for me.
Aged very badly.
The problem with the NSX is that it has a Honda badge on it.

Look at all the out-dated Ferraris being pumped up, purely because there's a prancing horse on the back.


davehRS4

20 posts

122 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
Have GT-R values gone up in the past year? I remember looking and the cheapest ones were £31k at the start of the year (though I must be mistaken if they are £35k now)

Arregueti

6 posts

119 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
JM5 said:
I looked at the new m3 / m4 and my list of other contenders was similar to the cars for this article.
The one that I think is missing is the lotus evora which I eventualy went for. Not a supercar but neither is the noble or R8 in my mind.
I did the same thing when looking around for the old E90/E92 M3... I ended up with an Evora and do not regret.

StuntmanMike

11,671 posts

150 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
thelawnet said:
StuntmanMike said:
St John Smythe said:
The NSX really shows its age now compared to that lot. It appears to be fitted with wheels from a skateboard smile
Agreed, expect to get flamed for this, but it's the only car there that does absolutely nothing for me.
Aged very badly.
The problem with the NSX is that it has a Honda badge on it.

Loaok at all the out-dated Ferraris being pumped up, purely because there's a prancing horse on the back.
Not a badge issue, I think it's just plain ugly.

Birdster

2,529 posts

142 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
Nedzilla said:
Birdster said:
acme said:
Nedzilla said:
Had a GTR and currently got an R8 and I cant imagine the running costs being any more than an M3/4. The 360 may through up a few nasty surprises though.
Only lost £3k depreciation in 2 years on the GTR and expect about the same or less on the R8.

Would hate to think what you would lose in two years on a new M3........
Given that you have/had two on the list would be interested in how you think they compare? Is the R8 a V8 & manual?

Cherrs
I'm also interested in some more detail if you don't mind.

Are both of those cars depreciating that slowly? Aside from fuel how much did the GTR cost for two years in top of depreciation?
Both great cars but very different. My R8 is a V8 manual do so quite a different beast from the savage power and lightning fast paddle shift of the GTR.
Both cars are depreciating very slowly now providing you buy an early model. Dont let this put you off though as I found mint low mileage examples of both. They are out there you just have to look and if you find the right car you will be fine.

The R8 feels the more special. Dont get me wrong the GTR is a special car but cant quite compare with the low slung,two seat,mid engine supercar feel of the R8.Both turn heads in equal measure though the R8 tends to turn more 'mature' heads and is very popular with the ladies wheras the GTR is more a teenage boys dream!

Performance wise the GTR is on another planet,even in standard form. Mine was only a stage 1 £600 remap and £250 decat pipe which takes power to around 590bhp and a whopping 550 lbs/ft the bulk of which is available from little over 3000rpm.
The R8 does move but you need to get it up at around 6500rpm at which point it sounds utterly wonderfull compared to the GTR.
The problem with the GTRs performance is that it is overkill for road use. A quick stab of the throttle and a couple of flicks of the paddle and you are stamping on the brakes fearing for your license. This became more frustrating than anything and made me feel as though I wasn't getting full use from the car,only using half of it if that makes sense. The R8s performance level is far more suited to our roads and you can wring it out through a couple if gears which is very satisfying without worrying (as much) about going to jail!

Running costs are probably pretty similar. Mpg,tax and isurance are pretty much the same though the GTR will need double the servicing of the R8.
Non runflat tyres are around £1k per set for each and pads and discs will set you back around £2.5k all round for both.

Over the two years my GTR had two sevices £650 major,£150 minor both done at a top indy. These prices will almost double at Nissan HPC. I also replaced one set of tyres and had the mods done. I bought the car with 12k miles on the clock and sold it with 27k on the clock. Pads snd discs were still on the original set!
Costs for consumables etc depends very much how you drive them of course. Some owners get through a set of tyres and brakes in around 5k miles! Mine had a pretty easy life.

The GTR does suffer from a few known issues. Bellhousing,headlights fogging up,audio and dash light failures. All of these issues are pretty price to fix if not under warranty but also not that common and they are generally very reliable. My car had none of these issues.

So far the R8 has had a slight aircon issue (failed pressure switch) but im also led to believe they are very reliable. Mag ride dampers can fail and are very expensive to replace but again not common.

Overall both are great cars and I would highly recommend both. Which is the better car is difficult to say. The GTR is just a monster in terms of performance and slightly more practical with a huge boot and two (small) rear seats. The R8 feels more 'supercar',sounds fantastic and has a better quality interior but is still a car you can use every day.

I got bored with the GTR after two years and always fancied an R8 so decided that was next though in another two years time Im pretty sure I will want something else. It also shows that in cars like this performance isnt everything. I am currently enjoying the R8 every bit as much as I did the GTR albeit fir different reasons.

Cheers.
Thank you for taking the time to reply. It's appeciated. I'm hoping that when we move next year I'll have some funds left for something like those cars. Maybe a little older/ less.

Blu3R

2,362 posts

198 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
quotequote all
I'm pleased to see the Noble thrown in there but anyone who thinks they could use one daily is out of their mind. It's not comfy or forgiving in traffic and has huge blind spots. Bear in mind though that you could have two of them for the price of an M3/4.
The GTR while epic is uglier than the NSX in my mind, the NSX would have to be a weekender and the Lotus the same. 360 would be fantastic, R8 excellent but Porsche where I'd put my money.

clonmult

10,529 posts

208 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
quotequote all
thelawnet said:
StuntmanMike said:
St John Smythe said:
The NSX really shows its age now compared to that lot. It appears to be fitted with wheels from a skateboard smile
Agreed, expect to get flamed for this, but it's the only car there that does absolutely nothing for me.
Aged very badly.
The problem with the NSX is that it has a Honda badge on it.

Look at all the out-dated Ferraris being pumped up, purely because there's a prancing horse on the back.
For me the NSX is the one that hasn't dated anything like as badly as anything a similar age from Ferrari. Reckon its still a damn good looking car. As you say, the only real problem with the NSX is the Honda badge.

mrclav

1,281 posts

222 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
StuntmanMike said:
thelawnet said:
StuntmanMike said:
St John Smythe said:
The NSX really shows its age now compared to that lot. It appears to be fitted with wheels from a skateboard smile
Agreed, expect to get flamed for this, but it's the only car there that does absolutely nothing for me.
Aged very badly.
The problem with the NSX is that it has a Honda badge on it.

Loaok at all the out-dated Ferraris being pumped up, purely because there's a prancing horse on the back.
Not a badge issue, I think it's just plain ugly.
^^^What he said.

stuckmojo

2,955 posts

187 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
As much as I don't like Ferrari, between these it has to be the 360.

GTR - will age very badly
R8 - already old
997 - Not sure, I don't really like the Turbo. Maybe a 997 GTS? That's my favourite 911. Can you get one for that money?
NSX - Apparently driving nirvana. According to some, it will be a future classic worth gazillions.
Noble - I guess if you like driving, that's probably the best one of the lot.


Patrick Bateman

12,143 posts

173 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
PZR said:
In some ways, the Nissan badge is arguably more "exotic" than the others mentioned.
You could try and argue that but you'll struggle to find people agreeing with you.

TheAngryDog

12,394 posts

208 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I'd wager a very large percentage of new M3/4 owners don't simply purchase the car outright with cash however.

It's alright saying a Ferrari 360 is the same money, but it doesn't come with easy option finance offers or 3 year lease deals.

Edited by LaurasOtherHalf on Sunday 23 November 09:47
Fort Jefferson said:
95% of people who have M3's and M4',s will have them on some sort of finance package, that's just not available on those supercars.
Exactly. Not many people who can afford to buy a new M3 or M4 in cash are actually going to buy one. They'll either buy something "better" or finance / lease something better. Similarly they aren't going to buy an old Ferrari, Noble or NSX.

Those who get an M3 / M4 will finance or lease them. More than likely lease them, as no one seems to buy new cars these days, at least on the PH demographic scale.

PZR

627 posts

184 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Patrick Bateman said:
PZR said:
In some ways, the Nissan badge is arguably more "exotic" than the others mentioned.
You could try and argue that but you'll struggle to find people agreeing with you.
Situation normal. Most people - including the majority of Pistonheads forum members and (presumably) Mr John Mahoney who wrote the article we are discussing - don't really know all that much about Nissan. Hence the "...a badge as exotic as a pint of milk..." comment.

Why are Nissan not as "exotic" a company as Ferrari, Audi, Honda, Noble and Porsche?

Bullett

10,873 posts

183 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Nissan is a mass market manufacturer, but then so are Honda and Audi and Porsche if it comes to that.






unpc

2,831 posts

212 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
stuckmojo said:
As much as I don't like Ferrari, between these it has to be the 360.

GTR - will age very badly
R8 - already old
997 - Not sure, I don't really like the Turbo. Maybe a 997 GTS? That's my favourite 911. Can you get one for that money?
NSX - Apparently driving nirvana. According to some, it will be a future classic worth gazillions.
Noble - I guess if you like driving, that's probably the best one of the lot.
Really? I think the 360 has aged worse than all the others with the exception of the NSX.

Matt UK

17,649 posts

199 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Fort Jefferson said:
95% of people who have M3's and M4',s will have them on some sort of finance package, that's just not available on those supercars.
Exactly.

Also, most people buy an M3 / M4 as an upmarket daily drive. Most cars in the article are bought as weekenders.

Apples and oranges IMHO.