Most unworthy f1 champion?

[NewMetalSystem]

There's definitely a few over-achievers when you look at the history books.

When looking at the list of 3x World Champions, Nelson Piquet always stands out a little bit for me. Especially when you consider than the likes of Clark and Alonso are only on 2.

[entropy]

VladD said:

James Hunt's commentary at the time would disagree with that opinion. He put the blame on Senna.

But you have to take into account that pre and post race Prost was adamant that he would never leave the door open for Senna.

Its like Nico Rosberg admitting he clashed with Lewis H just to prove a point which can make it sound even more malicious.

[DanielSan]

NewMetalSystem said:

I think it's difficult to say that any of them are unworthy. There's only 32 of them, so it's an exclusive club. You don't get in there by chance.

Unworthy race winners would be a more interesting question. Remember when Maldonado won? That was a strange day. It feels like a weird dream.

To be fair, the team got the car working well, but Maldonado also drove a great race. He showed that he does have some potential, but unfortunately he has brain fade way too often to make the most of it.

[AreOut]

the thing is it's relatively easy(for anyone who is good enough to enter F1 competition) to drive well set up modern F1 car if you are in lead, Massa has won many races like that and never made the mistake in such position

[oyster]

Over 15/16/19/20 races - how can amassing more points over that period than anyone else be deemed unworthy? It's not like a couple of lucky results will get you the title.

World titles are the ultimate measure for racing drivers. Just like Grand Slams in Tennis or Majors in golf. To get to world titles you need points. Wins give you the most points of course, but unless you liked Bernies 'medals' idea, it isn't the only way to amass points.

Of course you need a good car. But you don't usually get into a good car unless you are one of the best to start with.

[VladD]

entropy said:

VladD said:

James Hunt's commentary at the time would disagree with that opinion. He put the blame on Senna.

But you have to take into account that pre and post race Prost was adamant that he would never leave the door open for Senna.

Its like Nico Rosberg admitting he clashed with Lewis H just to prove a point which can make it sound even more malicious.

You also have to take into account that Senna had a well documented reputation for committing to a pass that wasn't really on and hoping that his victim would just get out of the way.

[thatguy11]

To me, 1958 champion Mike Hawthorn is the most undeserving champion. Only 3 wins total in his career, just a single win in the '58 season compared to the 4 that second-placed Stirling Moss picked up, and only won the title by virtue of Moss' unbelievable sportsmanship in appealing against Hawthorn's disqualification in Portugal.

[AlexS]

DanielSan said:

NewMetalSystem said:

I think it's difficult to say that any of them are unworthy. There's only 32 of them, so it's an exclusive club. You don't get in there by chance.

Unworthy race winners would be a more interesting question. Remember when Maldonado won? That was a strange day. It feels like a weird dream.

To be fair, the team got the car working well, but Maldonado also drove a great race. He showed that he does have some potential, but unfortunately he has brain fade way too often to make the most of it.

There was also the fact that the car that had qualified on pole by around 0.5s started at the back of the field.

[Halmyre]

thatguy11 said:

To me, 1958 champion Mike Hawthorn is the most undeserving champion. Only 3 wins total in his career, just a single win in the '58 season compared to the 4 that second-placed Stirling Moss picked up, and only won the title by virtue of Moss' unbelievable sportsmanship in appealing against Hawthorn's disqualification in Portugal.

A different era that was...in 1956, Peter Collins passed up his chance of the World Championship when he handed his car over to Juan-Manuel Fangio in the last race of the series.

[schmalex]

Ayahuasca said:

Not shameful, just a winning attitude. Happened in sailing - 2000 Olympics when UK's Ben Ainslie 'took out' his only rival to win gold.

He said, "‘It sounds a bit nasty really doesn’t it, but it’s an important part of what makes a top athlete great – having that edge, that determination, that cold-blooded desire to win and the focus to make it happen – very different from the ‘nice guy’ on shore. When playing the game every rule has to be used to advantage."

Ainslie didn't actually take him out of the event. IIRC, he didn't even put a penalty on his competitor - something that's very easy to contrive in competitive sailing. He just match raced him down the field to make sure he (Ainslie) finished ahead with sufficient points to take the gold. He did something similar in the last race of the 2012 Olympics, where he "waited" on the second beat to make sure he could sail his opponent down the fleet and ensure the points win.

This is a fairly standard tactic in competitive sail boat racing and one which I / the teams I race for use often to secure championships.

[entropy]

VladD said:

You also have to take into account that Senna had a well documented reputation for committing to a pass that wasn't really on and hoping that his victim would just get out of the way.

Which is why I've regarded that incident as a racing incident

[Walford]

Does anybody think this years WDC could have been won in anything but the factory Merc

[Vocal Minority]

Walford said:

Does anybody think this years WDC could have been won in anything but the factory Merc

Of course not. The vast majority (if not ALL) of the world drivers championships have been won in the best car, (or a second best car that was only the width of a cigarette paper away from the best).

The only possible exceptions I can think of are Fangio in '57 (250f was getting a little long in the tooth and the 246 Dino was a great car) Senna in '91 (that said, whilst the FW14 was quicker it kept breaking and as points are only awarded at the end, you could argue the McLaren was the better car). I am sure someone will come back with Lewis Hamilton in 2008, but there was only a really marginal difference between the Ferrari and McLaren in reality. Maybe Hill in '62, but once again you could argue that as the Lotus kept breaking, maybe the BRM was the better car, despite not being the quicker car.

[RKi]

Jacques Villeneuve. Championship came down to the wire vs Schumacher in an abysmal car. I believe Patrick Head later said as much.

Hopeless in the wet, and generally got massacred by his teammates throughout his later career. Big mouth / attitude too.

[Walford]

RKi said:

Jacques Villeneuve. Championship came down to the wire vs Schumacher in an abysmal car. I believe Patrick Head later said as much.

Hopeless in the wet, and generally got massacred by his teammates throughout his later career. Big mouth / attitude too.

DSQ Germany Michael Schumacher DSQ (78)

that means he came last

[Vocal Minority]

I'm confused, what's your point?

[Coatesy351]

wibble cb said:

unworthy = least successful, while still winning the title, Rosberg snr?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keke_Rosberg#The_shar...

only 1 win all year, but enough for the title.

I agree

[AreOut]

Vocal Minority said:

Of course not. The vast majority (if not ALL) of the world drivers championships have been won in the best car,

umm technically speaking it's not true, Button won the championship in a car that was at the end of a season significantly worse than Red Bull, it was actually worse for more than a half of season

also Alonso has won the second title in a Renault that was at the end more than a second slower than a Ferrari

[Harji]

Coatesy351 said:

wibble cb said:

unworthy = least successful, while still winning the title, Rosberg snr?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keke_Rosberg#The_shar...

only 1 win all year, but enough for the title.

I agree

Well , don't look at just stats. Keke drove the only non-turbo car that season, not the fastest car at all and as Patrick Head said and I'll para-phrase him, "Keke drove every race lap like a qualifying lap, rarely did his car come out of the corner facing the straight way"

So he drove like a beast in a slower car, flat out every lap, and accumulated more points than anyone else, how is that not deserving?

Keke Rosberg "I was probably the fastest I'd ever been in my career. I just refused to accept that anybody could beat me and to stay with the turbos I was prepared to take massive risks."

[Agent Orange]

Harji said:

"Keke drove every race lap like a qualifying lap, rarely did his car come out of the corner facing the straight way"

Isn't that how Keke drove his entire career?!

I was a young boy at the time (too young to get James Hunt) but it was Alan Jones and then Keke that got me hooked on F1 - both rung the neck out of their cars. My recollection watching Keke on the TV was that he drove his car in the most dramatic way I could ever imagine. It REALLY looked like he was riding a wild beast.