Blackmail - what do you do?

Blackmail - what do you do?

Author
Discussion

JustinP1

Original Poster:

13,330 posts

229 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Interesting one here.

I won't go into too many specifics of this particular instance, but am very interested to hear the opinions of other business owners and legal bods.

My company works with mainly the public sector. We come and do a service on an agreed date, and send out our terms and pricing schedule in clear plain english, writing, and only book them once we have evidence that those terms have been received and we also make specific written reference asking them to thoroughly read them. It's no small print, simply a four page overview of the service, with explanations of what default payment and cancellations terms are etc.

However, the truism of 'leading a horse to water...' is always there, and once in a while we end up with a problem, as the client has not read the simple requirements properly, or clearly not at all. They might not get the full benefit, but we've of course still done the work, so they still have to pay, as per the terms.

Usually, before it gets to dispute, we can just outline where the thing that they apparently '...weren't aware of' was in the first paragraph of our terms, and in duplicate in other places, and they realise that it has been their fault.

However, a handful of times (out of 1500 clients and 15 years I might add) we've got this:

"I'm not paying you. And if you pursue this matter, I'm going to use my position in the body to tell X other bodies how bad your company is and never to use you."


To be clear, I'm talking about situations where the client is indisputably at fault, and there's no issue with our work. And to cover this up, they are effectively saying that unless we make a loss, and they receive the service for free, we are going to be defamed.

My reading of the Theft Act is this is blackmail. It's an unwarranted demand, which has gain for them, loss for us, and is backed up with menaces.

However, in the real world though, what can a company do when faced with such a situation?

In the first instance I always try to bend over backwards for clients, and of course avoid litigation like the plague. But in theory, should push come to shove, is this blackmail? And what can be done?

Soov535

35,829 posts

270 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
JustinP1 said:
Interesting one here.

I won't go into too many specifics of this particular instance, but am very interested to hear the opinions of other business owners and legal bods.

My company works with mainly the public sector. We come and do a service on an agreed date, and send out our terms and pricing schedule in clear plain english, writing, and only book them once we have evidence that those terms have been received and we also make specific written reference asking them to thoroughly read them. It's no small print, simply a four page overview of the service, with explanations of what default payment and cancellations terms are etc.

However, the truism of 'leading a horse to water...' is always there, and once in a while we end up with a problem, as the client has not read the simple requirements properly, or clearly not at all. They might not get the full benefit, but we've of course still done the work, so they still have to pay, as per the terms.

Usually, before it gets to dispute, we can just outline where the thing that they apparently '...weren't aware of' was in the first paragraph of our terms, and in duplicate in other places, and they realise that it has been their fault.

However, a handful of times (out of 1500 clients and 15 years I might add) we've got this:

"I'm not paying you. And if you pursue this matter, I'm going to use my position in the body to tell X other bodies how bad your company is and never to use you."


To be clear, I'm talking about situations where the client is indisputably at fault, and there's no issue with our work. And to cover this up, they are effectively saying that unless we make a loss, and they receive the service for free, we are going to be defamed.

My reading of the Theft Act is this is blackmail. It's an unwarranted demand, which has gain for them, loss for us, and is backed up with menaces.

However, in the real world though, what can a company do when faced with such a situation?

In the first instance I always try to bend over backwards for clients, and of course avoid litigation like the plague. But in theory, should push come to shove, is this blackmail? And what can be done?
If they are public sector then there will be a Head of Compliance. They'll love to hear about this.

9mm

3,128 posts

209 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Soov535 said:
JustinP1 said:
Interesting one here.

I won't go into too many specifics of this particular instance, but am very interested to hear the opinions of other business owners and legal bods.

My company works with mainly the public sector. We come and do a service on an agreed date, and send out our terms and pricing schedule in clear plain english, writing, and only book them once we have evidence that those terms have been received and we also make specific written reference asking them to thoroughly read them. It's no small print, simply a four page overview of the service, with explanations of what default payment and cancellations terms are etc.

However, the truism of 'leading a horse to water...' is always there, and once in a while we end up with a problem, as the client has not read the simple requirements properly, or clearly not at all. They might not get the full benefit, but we've of course still done the work, so they still have to pay, as per the terms.

Usually, before it gets to dispute, we can just outline where the thing that they apparently '...weren't aware of' was in the first paragraph of our terms, and in duplicate in other places, and they realise that it has been their fault.

However, a handful of times (out of 1500 clients and 15 years I might add) we've got this:

"I'm not paying you. And if you pursue this matter, I'm going to use my position in the body to tell X other bodies how bad your company is and never to use you."


To be clear, I'm talking about situations where the client is indisputably at fault, and there's no issue with our work. And to cover this up, they are effectively saying that unless we make a loss, and they receive the service for free, we are going to be defamed.

My reading of the Theft Act is this is blackmail. It's an unwarranted demand, which has gain for them, loss for us, and is backed up with menaces.

However, in the real world though, what can a company do when faced with such a situation?

In the first instance I always try to bend over backwards for clients, and of course avoid litigation like the plague. But in theory, should push come to shove, is this blackmail? And what can be done?
If they are public sector then there will be a Head of Compliance. They'll love to hear about this.
Seconded. Never had a public sector behave like that with me.

JustinP1

Original Poster:

13,330 posts

229 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
I should add that previously when such a thing has been put to us, it's been on the phone and my tact has been to let them rant on the before repeating what they have implied back and they realise how unreasonable they've been and how unacceptable the demand is.

On this occasion, for the first time, it's in an email.


Lost soul

8,712 posts

181 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
JustinP1 said:
On this occasion, for the first time, it's in an email.
then it should be smile all around

Soov535

35,829 posts

270 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
JustinP1 said:
I should add that previously when such a thing has been put to us, it's been on the phone and my tact has been to let them rant on the before repeating what they have implied back and they realise how unreasonable they've been and how unacceptable the demand is.

On this occasion, for the first time, it's in an email.
Head of Compliance. The person who has done this is a tit.

JustinP1

Original Poster:

13,330 posts

229 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Soov535 said:
JustinP1 said:
I should add that previously when such a thing has been put to us, it's been on the phone and my tact has been to let them rant on the before repeating what they have implied back and they realise how unreasonable they've been and how unacceptable the demand is.

On this occasion, for the first time, it's in an email.
Head of Compliance. The person who has done this is a tit.
In this particular case, it's the head of an educational establishment. Cheers though. It's as unacceptable as I thought.

So, I guess I take it up with whoever their superior is?

The other part of my query is more hypothetical. Is this blackmail, and thus a criminal offence? And would/do the police do anything about it?

Also, is this something that the person would have personal liability for, or is the fact that they've made the threat as part of their position in the organisation change the liability?

Edited by JustinP1 on Wednesday 26th November 11:52

grumpy52

5,565 posts

165 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Apart from contacting the compliance officer , I would also contact the head of the Body he is threatening to blackball you with .
He is just a bully and bullies always give up when confronted properly .

Wacky Racer

38,099 posts

246 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
I would take this to the highest level and do all you can to ensure this individual is dismissed.

What a fool leaving an electronic paper trail

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

SlackBladder

2,579 posts

202 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Dear Mr Bully,


We thank you for your email and have forwarded your comments onto our solicitor.


Yours (without prejudice?)



balls-out

3,586 posts

230 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
JustinP1 said:
In this particular case, it's the head of an educational establishment.
Its actually quite worrying that:
a) somebody in this position behaves like that
b) that they are so STUPID to put something like that in writing


As it sounds like as you well know... remain calm. happy to discuss any issues that the client may have with your performance, but deeply concerned about such behaviour.


98elise

26,376 posts

160 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
JustinP1 said:
I should add that previously when such a thing has been put to us, it's been on the phone and my tact has been to let them rant on the before repeating what they have implied back and they realise how unreasonable they've been and how unacceptable the demand is.

On this occasion, for the first time, it's in an email.
Then possibly reply in a polite way saying that it looks like they are trying to Blackmail you, an perhaps thats not what they ment and could they clarify. If they don't back down then take it further.

Don't forget that it might be something said in haste, and the person could lose their job and possibly their career over it.

Tyre Tread

10,525 posts

215 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
I'm sure lessons will be learned.

ikarl

3,730 posts

198 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
I have just completed fraud training at my work and blackmail was touched upon.

Without going into too much detail, it's pretty much as everyone was has said, speak to the Compliance Officer. Speaking to their manager may or may not help, but the Compliance Officer WILL help and should hopefully get it sorted to your satisfaction.

jesta1865

3,448 posts

208 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
balls-out said:
JustinP1 said:
In this particular case, it's the head of an educational establishment.
Its actually quite worrying that:
a) somebody in this position behaves like that
b) that they are so STUPID to put something like that in writing


As it sounds like as you well know... remain calm. happy to discuss any issues that the client may have with your performance, but deeply concerned about such behaviour.

your first point of call is the governors and they will have a group that just deals with compliance and HR issues etc, they should look into it, but the head of governors would be my first contact, the head reports to him.

JustinP1

Original Poster:

13,330 posts

229 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
98elise said:
JustinP1 said:
I should add that previously when such a thing has been put to us, it's been on the phone and my tact has been to let them rant on the before repeating what they have implied back and they realise how unreasonable they've been and how unacceptable the demand is.

On this occasion, for the first time, it's in an email.
Then possibly reply in a polite way saying that it looks like they are trying to Blackmail you, an perhaps thats not what they ment and could they clarify. If they don't back down then take it further.

Don't forget that it might be something said in haste, and the person could lose their job and possibly their career over it.
Yes.

As it happens, I did reply by email in as polite way as I could, highlighting the threat, and asking what they actually want us to do at this stage, whether it is right that the works be abandoned, at our total cost, and finally, asking exactly what they intend to do if the demands they make are not met, and we do invoice for our work as per the contract.

My hope was, as you have said was that this would be an opportunity for them to come 'back from the brink', and reconsider how morally unacceptable their ultimatum was, and retract it and at least negotiate forwards.

My email of a week ago has not got a reply - hence my post on here today. I find it useful to get perspective from the PH masses!

ging84

8,828 posts

145 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Sounds like blackmail but it needs to be put into context, if for example it was a small bill, then realistically it's not blackmail or at least not enough to make worth reporting as a crime, it's just someone ranting particularly if the threat is doesn't have much substance to it. If on the other hand it's a substantial bill, and the threat to your reputation is quite a real one then it might be something worth pursuing as a crime.

JustinP1

Original Poster:

13,330 posts

229 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
ging84 said:
Sounds like blackmail but it needs to be put into context, if for example it was a small bill, then realistically it's not blackmail or at least not enough to make worth reporting as a crime, it's just someone ranting particularly if the threat is doesn't have much substance to it. If on the other hand it's a substantial bill, and the threat to your reputation is quite a real one then it might be something worth pursuing as a crime.
The bill is £800.

We're a small company, so it's a reasonable amount, as we don't go around doing work, racking up expenses and making bespoke goods for free.

In terms of the that itself, my gut feeling is that the person is unlikely to follow through in any case, but, the risk is there and I need to look out for my own and employee's livelihoods so don't want to underestimate things.

In terms of the threat, it was reasonably explicit, mentioning that they have a number of contacts, and mentioning that their position in a national organisation gives them the opportunity to tell a large number of bodies nationally not to use us.

I should add there is no reason put forward for something we've done wrong and thus what these bodies would be told...

My motivation here is not to get the person in trouble but to simply move things forward so we can get paid with a minimum of fuss. What would help is if I can present the facts, along with the confirmation that blackmail has been committed and ask the superior to make a sensible decision.

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
At least you have a nice e-mail which you can provide to others should it be necessary to do so. I'd advise whoever you forward this onto that you do not appreciate being blackmailed and that you will retain this e-mail and will provide it to anyone you deem appropriate to protect your reputation, and if necessary take the necessary action to do so.


Pot Bellied Fool

2,125 posts

236 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
JustinP1 said:
In terms of the threat, it was reasonably explicit, mentioning that they have a number of contacts, and mentioning that their position in a national organisation gives them the opportunity to tell a large number of bodies nationally not to use us.
Given the explicit nature of the threat (from someone who ought to know better!) then I'd be inclined to go nuclear on them. No excuses for that type of behaviour.

And go as far up the food chain as possible. If speaking to Head of Governers, some are very good, others less so - bear in mind they're volunteers so have varying degrees of with & experience to bring to bear. So I'd probably go for a two -pronged approach with the Compliance side of the Education Authority too (or whatever authority the establishment falls under these days).

BUT... The problem then remains of them bad-mouthing you. And it will happen. Even if they get the riot act read to them, they'll still be able to murmer things at the bar when on national body shindigs, conferences & courses.

So I would also follow it with a warning letter from the most bowel-opening, rottweiller of a lawyer you can find. Not with the intention of taking action personally against the miscreant but giving them such an almighty warning of the likely consequences if you come to hear of them bad-mouthing you that they'll think twice & tremble at the thought of your wrath.

What little murmerings they may still make shouldn't cause too much damage. Lots of people are happy to make their own decisions & read between the lines.

It's a difficult situation & as a one-man band I can sympathise - I'm sueing someone for £2½k at the moment and they entered a micky mouse defence at the last minute which is drawing it out even longer. (they're saying I agreed to report on every single microstep I took - I didn't, I wasn't selling a 'how-to-SEO' course! I did however significantly increase their web traffic which is the only KPI on my engagement email to them. furious) So I feel your pain!

But hit 'em hard & keep hitting them I'd say...

It sounds like a head who's let power go to their head & thinks they're a great King of Commerce now they've got a decent budget to play with...

Edited by Pot Bellied Fool on Wednesday 26th November 15:53