RE: All-wheel drive, half the fun? PH Blog

RE: All-wheel drive, half the fun? PH Blog

Wednesday 26th November 2014

All-wheel drive, half the fun? PH Blog

Is a four-wheel drive sports car really the soft option? Dan ponders the apparent attraction of traction



Somewhat provocatively I asked James to write a blog suggesting, as per the standfirst, 'real men don't tuck the overpowered RWD weekend toy away just because winter has arrived'. And then ducked while he copped all the flak for it.

Grip or grin? Will 4WD ruin the fun?
Grip or grin? Will 4WD ruin the fun?
But when a sports car manufacturer offers both two- and four-wheel drive variants of the same model is there any shame in admitting you'd prefer the traction advantage over the supposedly more heroic RWD option? Confirmation of a four-wheel drive F-Type brings this dilemma to the consistently sideways Brit bruiser and Porsche has offered such a 911 derivative since the days of the 964. Meanwhile AMG has bowed to market pressure and now offers 4Matic versions of many of its models, if not necessarily in the UK thanks to the complexity and expense of engineering them into RHD. Meaning we're among the few to get the chance to experience an E-Class attempting to put 585hp and 590lb ft through just its rear axle. If you'd asked me in July whether this seems a good idea or not I'd have probably nodded and grinned. Ask me the same question today and I might be a little more thoughtful.

I can buy the argument for all-weather confidence in a monster estate like an RS6 or E63. But walking into a Jaguar or Porsche dealership at the weekend with a fictional (sadly) £80K or so in my pocket this weekend would there be much of a pause for thought over whether or not to go for the four-wheel drive version? And would this latter choice be somehow less manly?

Are you feeling lucky, punk? This with PSM on...
Are you feeling lucky, punk? This with PSM on...
I seem to have been driving rather a lot of 911s recently (in no way connected to managing the press car bookings ... honest ... oh, OK) and mainly in fairly awful weather. The 991 Targa we had in the other week was four-wheel drive and the one outside today is a GT3. Do I feel any less confident about driving the latter because it only has two driven wheels? Frankly at road speeds and given the modern developments in tyres and face saving technology not really. If you'd asked me at Silverstone on Sunday you might have had a different answer - I drove a Turbo there in similar conditions and, spray aside, you'd swear you were on a dry track. The GT3, meanwhile, was less duck to water and more like one trying to walk across a frozen pond.

But when I browse older 911s in the classifieds I immediately discount anything with a '4' in its badge as quickly as I would a Tiptronic. And back in the fictional Jag dealership, even with the rain pouring outside, I'm not sure I'd even consider a four-wheel drive one.

This isn't out of some misplaced sense of heroism or delusion that I'll spot the exit of every roundabout I encounter via the side windows. More for me that I put weight pretty high on my list of priorities in a sports car and, especially for older ones, the idea that fewer parts means less to go wrong appeals to the budgeting. Uncorrupted steering and, for new cars, a typically cheaper asking price also appeal.

Nobody ever complained GT-R is dumbed down
Nobody ever complained GT-R is dumbed down
This isn't to say I don't enjoy four-wheel drive sports cars - the way that Targa would do delicate little four-wheel drifts under power and the sheer explosive power of a Nissan GT-R's corner exit traction are wonders to behold. Nor would I criticise Jaguar for finding ways of expanding its market for the F-Type.

But I'll maintain a slight suspicion that, where a choice is offered, the four-wheel drive one will always be the perceived softer option. And with that I'm off to go and drive a GT3 in the pouring rain. Meaning if you shortly encounter a big white wing sticking out of a hedge and me clambering out of the wreckage with twigs in my hair you have every right to point and laugh.

Dan

Lead photo: Roo Fowler, GT3 photo: Anthony Fraser

Author
Discussion

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
I've never owned a 4WD 'car' but I can't see it would be more 'fun' but probably more 'efficient'.


Behemoth

2,105 posts

130 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Wot, no mention of the glorious Integrale? The 4wd on these is awesome and I'd argue it's the perfect fun car on Britain's smaller A and B roads, all seasons for sure. Maybe not a "sports car" in dictionary terms but it most certainly behaves like one.

g7jhp

6,958 posts

237 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
yonex said:
I've never owned a 4WD 'car' but I can't see it would be more 'fun' but probably more 'efficient'.
I own a 996 turbo, it's certainly more fun and more efficient in the wet. In the dry I'd rather have a Caterham!

Crusoe

4,068 posts

230 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
At a time when speed seems to be the biggest taboo, something you can have a bit of fun at low speeds keeps things entertaining. 4x4 faster across the ground in most conditions but a lot less fun. Always a few moments when you have the radio off, the window open a crack to listen for silent ice and your sences on full alert for the rear overtaking you but always exciting (afterwards).

Dan Trent

1,866 posts

167 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Behemoth said:
Wot, no mention of the glorious Integrale? The 4wd on these is awesome and I'd argue it's the perfect fun car on Britain's smaller A and B roads, all seasons for sure. Maybe not a "sports car" in dictionary terms but it most certainly behaves like one.
I deliberately stayed off the subject of rally reps and applied argument to 4WD versions of 2WD sports cars in this context but it's of course a fair point. And in the mirror of the GT3 on Sunday Darren from RPM Technik appeared to be having a lot more fun once he parked the 911 up and swapped to his Subaru! White knuckles in the GT3, big grin in the Impreza.

I won't throw a spoiler in yet but suffice to say this discussion will continue in the vein you suggest very soon on PH!

Cheers!

Dan

Mr.Jimbo

2,082 posts

182 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
I have two main thoughts that I think are both for and against 4WD in this country:

One: 4WD makes rapid progress easier (in my opinion). Take my Impreza RB5, largely lauded for being a missle A-B cross country, I put to you that (in the soaking rain/frost/snow) a proper driver (professional trainer/race driver) would prefer and even be as quick/faster in his preference of FWD or RWD over AWD, whereas Joe Public would almost certainly be quicker in a AWD. The extra safety during power delivery (especially in a turbo car such as this) would mean that the un-experienced of the two would be more confident/comfortable and therefore faster.

Two: In this country 4WD in cars such as these (Porsche, F type etc) isn't really necessary. Arguments for safety aside, in this country your GT3RS would likely be parked up for one week of the year if it snows? Whereas in Sweden/Norway/Snow belt America, it could be parked up for much longer, hence the preference for AWD there, so they kind of live with it in the summer months, but require it in Winter. As we don't have such severe winters, I think we get away with 2WD a lot more, and therefore can't really see much of a benefit.

The Impreza is a real hoot in the wet/snow, but the surefootedness is reassuring when required. A lot of the time though, I think it's wasted really.

jamieduff1981

8,022 posts

139 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
It depends a lot on whether this is your only car or not. I've been RWD only up here in Scotland for most winters but I realise in warmer parts of the UK roads are more slippery and therefore RWD is unusable.

There are lots of sports cars amongst the people I spend most of my time with, but almost all of them have something else as well. Thinking about it, the only people I know who only have a sports car, all drive 2WD sports cars.

The huge majority of these cars don't go on tracks. Mine included - not least because tracks are over 100 miles away. To me, a desire to deploy more power in the cold and/or wet than 2WD can deliver suggests driving far too fast for the conditions. Not all 4 wheeled cars accelerate with 4 wheels, but they all stop with 4 wheels and go round corners with 4 wheels. It's quite possible to drive far, far faster than is safe, appropriate or certainly legal with any 2WD sports car in the wet. Thinking you need to push the pedal as far as you can in the dry when it's greasy out smacks of bad judgement IMHO.

p.s. several TVR owners changed to GT-Rs and regretted it dearly - so there are some people who don't think it's much fun. Very, very fast, yes. Fun? That's open to debate.

TNH

559 posts

146 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Definitely RWD for me. I'll drive it in the wet and it doesn't matter if I'm stuck in the house when its a blizzard for a week a year.

JaseB

854 posts

260 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
g7jhp said:
yonex said:
I've never owned a 4WD 'car' but I can't see it would be more 'fun' but probably more 'efficient'.
I own a 996 turbo, it's certainly more fun and more efficient in the wet. In the dry I'd rather have a Caterham!
I see you've had a Caterham, still have mine and when it's wet I wish I had a 996 Turbo...

chandrew

979 posts

208 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
On a global basis it has to make sense to have the option. Here in Europe many of the wealthiest areas (southern Germany, northern Italy, Switzerland, Austria etc) are all covered in snow, or have a high probability of snow for 6 months of the year. Here in Switzerland, in some parts 90% of all cars sold are AWD. The same is true for many of the wealthiest parts of the US, Canada etc.

If your sports car is for the weekend then RWD is probably the best. If it's for daily driving then AWD is a big plus in many parts.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
JaseB said:
I see you've had a Caterham, still have mine and when it's wet I wish I had a 996 Turbo...
I had many a good drive in the wet, even one in the snow in my old Caterham, shame it had to go really. Wasn't the fastest way to get from A to B in those conditions but it was an exciting drive. Spinning tyres in 2/3rd in a straight line does things to your mind rotate

Almost the last drive was a year ago. Heading down a local road there was a 'lake' across it. I pulled up to it and behind was a chap in a new XKR who realized that there was no way that a 70mm high Caterham was going sailing. I motioned to him I was turning around and he shouted out the window "I'll back up" Full lock, dropped the clutch and somehow completed a neat spin. Pulled back up to thank him and he was cracking up, asked what it cost to build etc.

The best thing about owning a Caterham is that they are one of the few cars that are universally accepted.


Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 26th November 13:04

900T-R

20,404 posts

256 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
jamieduff1981 said:
To me, a desire to deploy more power in the cold and/or wet than 2WD can deliver suggests driving far too fast for the conditions.
Bingo.

Kawasicki

13,041 posts

234 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Many of my favourite driving days are on snow/ice covered roads with a rwd car. Winter tyres optional. Is it slow?...yep.

I also ignore the 4wd options when I look at used cars, simplicity is a strong pro when you are a skinflint driving enthusiast.

prevcom

2 posts

113 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Are winter tyres not an option for RWD instead of having AWD all year round for a PHer?

leon9191

752 posts

192 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
I find it odd that people state safety as a factor in 4wds, the fact that you have more traction and therefore go quicker in bad conditions e.g. snow doesnt mean you can stop or corner any quicker than a 2wd car unless the 4ed system adds 1000kg over its 2wd equivelant!

I remember a bad winter in Norfork a few years back when we had thick snow on the ground for over 2 week and on a daily basis I would see people who had spun off the A11 and were stuck on the verge and almost every one was a 4wd car. Becasue people believe they grip better when infact they dont.

Yes a 4wd will get better traction and will drive in snow/wet better/fast but it also means when you skid your generally going quicker and will be less likely to catch it.

goldblum

10,272 posts

166 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Dan Trent said:
This isn't out of some misplaced sense of heroism or delusion
Delusion isn't a sense and you certainly can't misplace it. smile

jonnM

1,102 posts

138 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Ken Block always looks like he's having fun with 4WD smile

Corkman

15 posts

133 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Having just replaced an S3 with the similarly powered (although far more 'torquey') 330d I have a been thinking about this recently.

For quick getaways I much preferred the S3. A slight slip at the front, a dig in from the back and away you go. So far I'm getting a little annoyed at the number of times the little orange fun killer light flashes on the 330d in the same scenario.

However, over some of the back roads I commute on everyday the fun is now coming from getting the car a bit sideways round the twisty bits, usually within the legal limit, rather than attempting to beat yesterdays 'lap-time' on the trip computer.

One caveat to this that I really ought to add... the 330's rear tyres are on the blocks and having only owned it about 6 weeks I've hardly driven on a dry road.

Evo

3,462 posts

253 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
jonnM said:
Ken Block always looks like he's having fun with 4WD smile
Ken Block has a very big bag packed full of talent too, something some of us would eventually run out of at some point biggrin

Helicopter123

8,831 posts

155 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
The argument for 4wd in winter is a complete red herring. A 2wd car with winter tyres is a far better bet and will get you further, and then help you stop when you arrive.

4wd on performance cars will help the novice to enjoy more of the performance in the dry.