Apple obsession or delusion

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JimmyTheHand

1,001 posts

141 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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pavka007 said:
JimmyTheHand said:
My desktop PC is coming up for 6 years old - no problem running latest Hotoshop/Lightroom etc. under Windows 7 (It runs Windows 8 but tbh I leave that and its original Vista was slower), which is what it was brought for - pretty much anything general software leaves it idling - it has been upgraded to 12G Ram (was cheap) and larger data hard disk - ram only helps with lots of photos open. I believe it was comparable in cost to a Mac at the time.
Well...as per your own post you had to upgrade, RAM and new HD, My Mac is as it was from the box. 320GB HD and 4GB RAM.
The Ram was upgraded because I was working on some rather large documents that was pushing the 6G of ram it came with, so when I checked Amazon and saw I could get another 6G for £36 I just put it in – it rarely is using more than 4G.

You'll notice I said data hard disk, the operating system and applications are still running on the original internal 1TB hard disk. Strictly speaking I am not even sure it is an upgrade as the data disk is sat in a removable caddie system and can be unplugged (but using SATA not USB/Firewire). The original 1T data drive may even have been the data drive from the old PC.

To Me the data drive is more a consumable as it is easier to put in a larger one than do a clear out and raw photos can take a lot of room.


pavka007 said:
If they both were at the same price bracket how they compare now considering that you already put additional money into it?
Since I would remove the data hard disk if I was to dispose of it, that money wouldn't be lost as such – so only put in the cost of the RAM which wasn't' a lot.


pavka007 said:
Today I can get 512GB SSD for my Mac for under 207 quid and this will make it flying.
Which is about the same as I spent on putting a 500M SSD into my laptop – I have been thinking of putting an SSD in the desktop – it will take standard laptop SSDs or the PCIe ones (I don't feel the PCIe costs justifies the performance gains for me).

pavka007 said:
So how much was your HD and RAM?
How much would it have cost you to double your RAM if you needed more because of the amount of data you were throwing around.

pavka007 said:
How much you have spent for Protection over the years?
Considerably less than I have spent on keeping the photography & development software up to date.
How much would it cost you to replace your mother board/video card/PSU if it dies.


pavka007 said:
How many updates you are receiving on a daily basis?
The only ones that are likely to be daily (or more) are automatic – broadband is unlimited so not an issue.


pavka007 said:
Would you like me to go on? I am sure that you get the point by now.
The point is you made a comment about was could a 6 year old PC run today's software the answer is yes and it if is just standard office/web stuff it doesn't need to be a top end i7 of its era.

If you buy some cheap PC, even if the spec still OK in 6 years, it is less likely to last 6 years – however I have heard people just replace the PC because it stopped working – when all they needed was to reinstall the OS and stop going onto gambling/porn sites and clicking yes install this trojan.


Apple kit tends to be good quality and far too many people compare the cheapest PC with a Mac and say it is over priced - but equally you can get good quality PCs that will also last. Personally I am much more likely to have a PC because I prefer being able open it up and add/change things if I need/want.

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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ZesPak said:
pavka007 said:
Now....how many Windows based machines you know that can run everything of today software and being 6 years old?
Only every half decent computer conceived in the past ten years??

Seriously people, they are just regular computers in an aluminium case and another OS on it.
As pointed out above, try running several Mac and Windows machines and come back to us on maintenance. The problem with this delusion is that people have had some £400 machines, then buy a mac at £1600 and then conclude they are better machines. Which they are, a £1600 Apple computer beats the crap out of a £400 computer from another brand. But spend £1200 on your computer and the tables are turned.

As for the people saying they are better for work, why is every big office I've ever been equipped with mid to high end Lenovo, Dell or Hp? Are all these CIO so incompetent they can't see that Apple is the way to go?

Don't get me wrong, they do have a couple of gems in their line up. The new 5k will be relatively cheap considering the screen. The MBPR 15" is another example of a good machine with a reasonable price.
Active Directory and Group Policy, that's why.

ecs

1,222 posts

169 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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I've had a MacBook Air for the past 3-4 years. I've had a lot of computers in my time and the Air is the single best computer I've ever owned. It really does 'just work' and that's all I want smile

George111

6,930 posts

250 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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You only need a Ford Fiesta 1.2L in reality but we choose to buy 3.0L Audis and BMWs . . . because they feel better, are faster, quieter, more stylish etc etc. A Mac is an awesome bit of kit . . . probably not required in some cases but very comfortable to live with, clearly great quality of hardware and software and easy to use. Windows is not as pleasant to use and the variety of hardware available to the average user makes a long term decision difficult . . . we know which CPU to buy but the average user doesn't have a clue . . . but buying a Mac gives some degree of reassurance that they are making a right decision because Mac hardware is usually good for 4-6 years unlike the shoddy sh*t you often find for sale running Windows.

TheAngryDog

12,394 posts

208 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
ZesPak said:
pavka007 said:
Now....how many Windows based machines you know that can run everything of today software and being 6 years old?
Only every half decent computer conceived in the past ten years??

Seriously people, they are just regular computers in an aluminium case and another OS on it.
As pointed out above, try running several Mac and Windows machines and come back to us on maintenance. The problem with this delusion is that people have had some £400 machines, then buy a mac at £1600 and then conclude they are better machines. Which they are, a £1600 Apple computer beats the crap out of a £400 computer from another brand. But spend £1200 on your computer and the tables are turned.

As for the people saying they are better for work, why is every big office I've ever been equipped with mid to high end Lenovo, Dell or Hp? Are all these CIO so incompetent they can't see that Apple is the way to go?

Don't get me wrong, they do have a couple of gems in their line up. The new 5k will be relatively cheap considering the screen. The MBPR 15" is another example of a good machine with a reasonable price.
Its just iPhone versus Android, but iMac versus Windows platform computers.

We do not run Apple kit for any of our work, all Windows based HP's.

gpo746

3,397 posts

129 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Sounds like the recession is over
Yippy ya aye

ZesPak

24,423 posts

195 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Bikerjon said:
Things like PCie flash drives, retina screens and thunderbolt ports. I also can't think of anything that compares to the new iMac 5K for the price.
I mentioned the 5k Mac, but what is this "retina" you're talking about? I remember seeing the term for sub par phone screens, but it didn't make much sense?
As for pcie, you can have it on other machines if you want.
As for thunderbolt, well, I always regretted not having firewire on my non-apple machines.

SBDJ

1,320 posts

203 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
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Bikerjon said:
there's actually some decent technology that still isn't yet widely available in the PC market. Things like PCie flash drives, retina screens and thunderbolt ports
Not sure how you figure that; PCIe flash drives have been available to PCs for a very long time, as has thunderbolt. As for retina, there are PCs available with high resolution displays too - you can get laptops with 4k displays for example.

Clearly some suffer from obsession and/or delusion on both sides of the fence. I don't think it has to be the case though - I think it's good to maintain a balance and competition benefits us all. My OH falls into the rabid anti-Apple group smile

I have a MBP here; it's my second one. After the problems I had with the first I didn't really want another, but since I do cross platform development it was essential really. It's a 2011 model with discrete graphics and has already had it's logic board replaced. It's well built and nice to look at, but I don't particularly enjoy using it and don't find it particularly responsive either - it just gets used for development and testing really, or for web surfing when I fancy upsetting the mrs!

I'll probably also be purchasing an iPad next year for my son. He's very heavily physically and mentally disabled and his school use them as learning aids with specific applications. It makes sense for the sake of familiarity and continuity for him to have the same tech at home. I'm actually working on tech at the moment that may improve his ability to use a computer too, although that is PC only at present.

Spend decent money on a decent PC and it will last you well. This 'it won't last you' mentality is brought about by people buying the cheapest Celeron they can, preloaded with junk, loading it with ever increasing amounts of junk IMHO. Some of these people then drop 1k+ on an Apple machine and it's so much better. Of course it is, your last machine was a £300 POS!

My main laptop is currently a nice ASUS; prior to that it was a Clevo and prior to that it was a Dell. That Dell is now 9 years old - still going strong and can run the latest OS and apps no problem.

TheAngryDog

12,394 posts

208 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
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I'd have a MacBook Pro, but not at the money they cost new!
I've just paid £800 for a HP Laptop, all of my work is in Windows. I wanted a laptop that would last and it has a decent sure (sure, it *only* has a 1920 x 1080 screen) and 8gb of RAM, but it has got a 1TB SSHD and is HALF the price of a MacBook Pro that has 16gb of RAM and a 256gb SSD. They both have similar speed Quad Core i7 CPU's.

Maybe my Laptop will slow down, maybe it won't, who knows? If it does, I'll re-install Windows on a nice SSD and up the RAM to 16gb and be done with it.

And it'll still cost me less than the equivalent MacBook Pro. But I'd still have one!

mildmannered

1,231 posts

152 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
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My daughter bought a Mac Pro as a treat to herself after finishing Uni and was really excited to have a play with it as I was probably going to head down that route after the Windows 8 mess.

I quickly discovered that certain functions are so deeply "Windows" ingrained, like:
Double tapping the title bar to maximise/restore
"Snap" split 50/50 window function
File/Edit etc. functions being associated within the window and not the screen
"Right-Click" functions
Using the right of the touch pad for scrolling, as opposed to Multi-touch back-to-front scrolling (I understand the logic, but it still feels wrong!)
There are loads more, but you get the idea.
And then, the keyboard. How everyone loves an Apple keyboard. Which I really don't get at all? Straight away, I found the scaling very odd? Why such small return and cursor keys? And no forward delete, are they mad?
Yes, they are very beautiful things, but I just found the experience really irritating and have no desire to "relearn" how to use a computer.

But then it would seem I am a lonely voice as I never hear similar gripes!

ecsrobin

17,023 posts

164 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
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You'd be amazed how quickly you pickup the new Mac'isms and then realise they are a better way of doing things.

miniman

24,827 posts

261 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
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mildmannered said:
"Right-Click" functions
Using the right of the touch pad for scrolling, as opposed to Multi-touch back-to-front scrolling (I understand the logic, but it still feels wrong!)
And no forward delete, are they mad?
Right-click just needs to be enabled in settings
You can reverse the touchpad scroll to what I consider to be "normal"
Fn+Backspace = Forward Delete

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
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TheAngryDog said:
I'd have a MacBook Pro, but not at the money they cost new!
I've just paid £800 for a HP Laptop, all of my work is in Windows. I wanted a laptop that would last and it has a decent sure (sure, it *only* has a 1920 x 1080 screen) and 8gb of RAM, but it has got a 1TB SSHD and is HALF the price of a MacBook Pro that has 16gb of RAM and a 256gb SSD. They both have similar speed Quad Core i7 CPU's.

Maybe my Laptop will slow down, maybe it won't, who knows? If it does, I'll re-install Windows on a nice SSD and up the RAM to 16gb and be done with it.

And it'll still cost me less than the equivalent MacBook Pro. But I'd still have one!
My MBP is five years old. I put a 500GB SSD in it and upgraded the RAM to the max 8GB when I'd had it a couple of years. I'd love an excuse to upgrade, but the damn thing still works perfectly. The closest I get to an excuse is when it chokes on HD videos (>1080p) from my GoPro.

It's been fantastic value for money.

Lost soul

8,712 posts

181 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
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gpo746 said:
Sounds like the recession is over
Yippy ya aye
hehe

mildmannered

1,231 posts

152 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
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miniman said:
Right-click just needs to be enabled in settings
You can reverse the touchpad scroll to what I consider to be "normal"
Fn+Backspace = Forward Delete
Fn+Backspace = Forward Delete
They clearly are mad! Probably for the sake of 'clean design' rolleyes

A slightly different angle, but my 5 year old Compaq Netbook (running XP) went with me to Saudi, Oman and NZ and was very easy to purchase and install native dongles for internet access, how do Mac owners get on, as there were never any OSX versions of the software to use. Do you have to run Windows on the Mac to install/use these modems? Though I am sure that as more people migrate to OSX, that it will become more catered for.

Vaud

50,291 posts

154 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
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Amazing, I use a Mac and a PC, have been for <too many years> and I have never used forward delete in my life... I didn't know it existed!

  1. luddite

//j17

4,471 posts

222 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
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The Apple O/S is rather love it/hate it and not very good when you start to stray from a general usage machine, as a lot of specialist software is only written for Windows. Most of the Mac users I work with only spend 50% of their time in "Apple world", the rest is spent in some running a Windows VM and working in that.

Apple hardware isn't anything different these days (the days of PowerPC chips are long gone) but it IS top-shelf kit where-as market competition means most Windows machines are built to a price, so pick from the lower, cheaper shelves for parts. I know a few people who bought Macbooks, took them home and installed Windows on them as it was as cheap as an equivalently specced Ultrabook.


Regarding the o/p - your friend is just a iSheep. I bet he gets the latest iPhone on the day it comes out too, then does the dance (remove ugly, chunky cover that stops it breaking if someone so much as farts in the same room/wave it around going "Wow, look how sexy and stylish it is!"/wrap it back up in it's ugly, chunky cover).

mildmannered

1,231 posts

152 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
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Vaud said:
Amazing, I use a Mac and a PC, have been for <too many years> and I have never used forward delete in my life... I didn't know it existed!

  1. luddite
Or, a very accurate typist!

I am however, not moan

Vaud

50,291 posts

154 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
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mildmannered said:
Or, a very accurate typist!

I am however, not moan
I'm a rubbish typist, I just use the regular backspace. Or hold it down in frustration. Or hunt for the tippex. It's getting hard to see the screen now.

lukefreeman

1,492 posts

174 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
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Delusion........However, he makes financial sense.

As assets, they hold their value superbly.