Oldest MGB in Motor sport
Discussion
I am going to see an MGB project car with a competition history that goes back to around 1962. I believe the car is only about 4 months into the start of production. It is pretty well shot but it might actually be the oldest one out there with period competition history. If it is I feel it would be worth doing. So question is of all the known cars which is reckoned oldest with competition history? I understand that private individuals were out there racing them before the works cars emerged....
That's a very early competition car. Would be great to hear/see more of the 'B.
According to The Works MG's, the first MGB's in competition were at Sebring in March 1963 driven by Jim Parkinson & Jack Flaherty and Cristabel Carlisle & Denise McCluggage. Not a great debut as both cars suffered serious overheating and engine failure due to oil surge. Upon returning to England one of the cars [modified & repaired] was loaned to privateer Alan Hutcheson where he one his class in the Daily Express Silverstone Int'l GT Race. Hutcheson took the same car in April to the 500km Rce at Spa but retired, again, with overheating problems. Next up was Le Mans 1963 which was a 'private' entry supported by Competitions Dep't driven by Hutcheson and Paddy Hopkirk; this the year when Hutcheson put the car into the sand at Mulsanne and was delayed by some 90 minutes. The car finished 12th overall and won its GT class.
According to The Works MG's, the first MGB's in competition were at Sebring in March 1963 driven by Jim Parkinson & Jack Flaherty and Cristabel Carlisle & Denise McCluggage. Not a great debut as both cars suffered serious overheating and engine failure due to oil surge. Upon returning to England one of the cars [modified & repaired] was loaned to privateer Alan Hutcheson where he one his class in the Daily Express Silverstone Int'l GT Race. Hutcheson took the same car in April to the 500km Rce at Spa but retired, again, with overheating problems. Next up was Le Mans 1963 which was a 'private' entry supported by Competitions Dep't driven by Hutcheson and Paddy Hopkirk; this the year when Hutcheson put the car into the sand at Mulsanne and was delayed by some 90 minutes. The car finished 12th overall and won its GT class.
Thanks, if things work out I shall surely post. I understand that amateurs were racing Bs before the works. Bit of a no brainer, fancy new sports car comes out, some bright spark is bound to take it to the track within weeks especially as the regs were minimal then. This car started racing about the same time as the works cars:
http://www.dkeng.co.uk/ferrari-sales/474/Blue_Chip...
http://www.dkeng.co.uk/ferrari-sales/474/Blue_Chip...
IF you take it on, DONT do as many "restoration" shops do and use a new shell! That instantly ruins the cars provenance.
I well remember having a pint with the great GM at Snett, we were discussing if a second gear start would be worth it, I did say it would depend on if the halfdhafts were standard or ugraded.Gerry said he wasn't sure .
On the grid he selected second, gave it around five thousand rpm, flag dropped as did the clutch! Broke both shafts."Guess they were stanard, fancy another pint" So we did just that.
The car possibly has the most provenence of ALL the Bs out there and really needs a decent home.I cant imagine the shell would be in to bad a condition.Check the front wings as ehen Gerry had the car they were alloy works wings.
Just scanned dk ad again-would have thought a twenty thou drop in price to be closer to the true price.
I well remember having a pint with the great GM at Snett, we were discussing if a second gear start would be worth it, I did say it would depend on if the halfdhafts were standard or ugraded.Gerry said he wasn't sure .
On the grid he selected second, gave it around five thousand rpm, flag dropped as did the clutch! Broke both shafts."Guess they were stanard, fancy another pint" So we did just that.
The car possibly has the most provenence of ALL the Bs out there and really needs a decent home.I cant imagine the shell would be in to bad a condition.Check the front wings as ehen Gerry had the car they were alloy works wings.
Just scanned dk ad again-would have thought a twenty thou drop in price to be closer to the true price.
Gave up with that supposedly early competition car as none of the race history could be verified. Now going to look at a 1964 'B, again with history that will need looking into and work to be done. This one apparently is still on its 3 bearing motor. Have spoken to a couple of specialists and one warned me to make sure that it still has the narrow transmission tunnel as it would not get app K papers if it has been re-shelled with the later 4 syncro box shell with the wider tunnel. How do I know if I'm looking at a narrow or a wide tunnel? Does anybody have any pics for comparison?? Many thanks, Keith
You surprise me, what info was missing?
As for a photo of a narrow tunnel-you only need look on the link you posted.
I dont understand how you can describe the car in the link as needing work?
It would help a lot if you could give more details on this next cat your going to look atSomething a little odd here.
As for a photo of a narrow tunnel-you only need look on the link you posted.
I dont understand how you can describe the car in the link as needing work?
It would help a lot if you could give more details on this next cat your going to look atSomething a little odd here.
carreraplanes said:
Gave up with that supposedly early competition car as none of the race history could be verified. Now going to look at a 1964 'B, again with history that will need looking into and work to be done. This one apparently is still on its 3 bearing motor. Have spoken to a couple of specialists and one warned me to make sure that it still has the narrow transmission tunnel as it would not get app K papers if it has been re-shelled with the later 4 syncro box shell with the wider tunnel. How do I know if I'm looking at a narrow or a wide tunnel? Does anybody have any pics for comparison?? Many thanks, Keith
Are you saying the car for sale with DK Eng can not be verified? That doesn't make sense, the car is well known and should come with race tickets and docs going back years. Or, are DK being lazy arses not wanting to secure the provenance for you? It should come with the car. Although over priced, the price bracket is not their preferred end of the market and most likely won't put much time into the sale.Sorry for not making myself clear. I have looked at several cars of which the DK car was just one. The DK car indeed has clear and verifiable history including Goodwood in period. But is a whole heap of money. The premium has a lot to do with its future Goodwood potential for which somebody will pay handsomely but not me!! As for the pics I posted of that car it was not obvious to me whether the car had been re shelled or not. Racers 'ave an 'ard life as it were and I speak from bitter (re shelled) experience. If somebody with a good knowledge of the model is telling me that is a narrow tunnel, then great I take it as read and thank you! I am going to look at yet another car however and it would be handy to know what a wide tunnel looks like, the differences may not be that obvious to the layman. Being overly cautious as a pre '66 that had been re-shelled with a wide tunnel would not get its FIA papers and could prove a costly mistake.
Thanks in anticipation.
Thanks in anticipation.
http://www.britishracecar.com/index.html
follow this link and look at the MG's 3/4 way down the page, there are some good galleries of 1964 early tunnel cars
follow this link and look at the MG's 3/4 way down the page, there are some good galleries of 1964 early tunnel cars
Great to see John Targets name and car in that list. During my time at CMS John came over and spent the day with us.He took my car out and came back with a huge grin on his face"how do you get it to go so well? Its way faster than mine".We then went through his wish list-some of which were deleted, otherwise it got longer! Rad, oil pump, lots of advice on his cam project.Thouroughly nice guy, such a pity I couldnt take him up on his offer of a drive at Lagoona Seca-its still on my list of todo circuits.
Back to the OP, you never know who might have worked on the cars you view, always worth a pm here and there.
Back to the OP, you never know who might have worked on the cars you view, always worth a pm here and there.
Got to see the second car. Deffo on the original shell and has the narrow tunnel. Has club racing history mid through to late 1960s but unlike the DK car no Goodwood history or distinguished owners. The chequered history of the DK car might get it into Goodwood and that must be the reason for the 75k price tag. But I doubt that the one I'm looking at would as does not have that level of provenance. It does have entry programs which show it as entered for club races at Silverstone, Brands etc though. So I am trying to assess what it would be worth after recommissioning and a fresh HTP. I took it that a reasonable FIA 'B could be picked up for around 25k so perhaps it would ultimately be worth 30 maybe 35k for having period although obscure clubbie history.
Trouble is other than the DK car and another that also has Goodwood history and is also 75k: http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C488404 I cannot find a comparable car i.e. FIA spec with some period history upon which to base a price. As mentioned I was under the impression that mid twenties was about right for a sorted FIA car with no period history but I might be high there, just noticed this:
http://www.classic-auctions.com/Auctions/24-04-201...
And this one didn't make its 20k low estimate:
http://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2014-08...
So maybe my estimate of the car I'm looking at if I fixed it up might be as low as 25k. Has anybody seen anything similar i.e. FIA with a little period history sell in the recent past and if so what for?? Just need some idea to work out if it is worth acquiring or walking away...
Trouble is other than the DK car and another that also has Goodwood history and is also 75k: http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C488404 I cannot find a comparable car i.e. FIA spec with some period history upon which to base a price. As mentioned I was under the impression that mid twenties was about right for a sorted FIA car with no period history but I might be high there, just noticed this:
http://www.classic-auctions.com/Auctions/24-04-201...
And this one didn't make its 20k low estimate:
http://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2014-08...
So maybe my estimate of the car I'm looking at if I fixed it up might be as low as 25k. Has anybody seen anything similar i.e. FIA with a little period history sell in the recent past and if so what for?? Just need some idea to work out if it is worth acquiring or walking away...
The blue car hasn't got any papers and would cost a reasonable amount to be put right. It's a 1950 for a start, the roof is wrong etc.
The green car could be worth investigating, especially if Ian and Bob have been involved with it. Give Ian a call and discuss what there is and what it needs.
The Ecurie and Equipe series have amalgamated this year, the 1950s are out and everyone is on Ls, so interest will start to ramp.
The green car could be worth investigating, especially if Ian and Bob have been involved with it. Give Ian a call and discuss what there is and what it needs.
The Ecurie and Equipe series have amalgamated this year, the 1950s are out and everyone is on Ls, so interest will start to ramp.
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