ECU Change or Racelogic for Traction Control

[neal1980]

Hi,

I am currently building a TVR which has an LS 6.3 Twin Turbo and its running megasquirt 2. I was planning on adding a racelogic TC but someone suggested for the price changing the ECU out.

I can get a DTA S80 for under a grand which can do traction control...The Racelogic system is coming to about £1500.

My only option though is they control the traction differently (I think)....the ECU based stuff cuts the spark?? and the Racelogic cuts fuel from each cylinder very quickly.

Its probably too good to be true for the ECU based ones to match the racelogic..but does anyone have any views on ECU based Traction Control??

I don't mind which way I go but need it to do the job

Neal

[stevieturbo]

neal1980 said:

Hi,

I am currently building a TVR which has an LS 6.3 Twin Turbo and its running megasquirt 2. I was planning on adding a racelogic TC but someone suggested for the price changing the ECU out.

I can get a DTA S80 for under a grand which can do traction control...The Racelogic system is coming to about £1500.

My only option though is they control the traction differently (I think)....the ECU based stuff cuts the spark?? and the Racelogic cuts fuel from each cylinder very quickly.

Its probably too good to be true for the ECU based ones to match the racelogic..but does anyone have any views on ECU based Traction Control??

I don't mind which way I go but need it to do the job

Neal

Racelogic is probably easier from a DIY point of view as it's almost fit and forget and just twiddle a knob. But it is pricey.

If you're happy to do some work, go Syvecs. You can have the ecu cut fuel, spark, timing, whatever you want really.

Generally you'll go for pulling some timing first to reduce power, and if that isnt enough, start cutting spark or fuel as required.

Ideally you'd have an S8, but an S6GP will do what you need quite happily ( I switched to one earlier this year as I couldnt stretch to an S8 )

From a bigger picture point of view, it will be worth it, and it isnt that expensive really. But the boost control, traction control, and general all round abilities are superb. It just lacks a little logging memory. It has some and it is adequate, but more would be better
It's just eaten up quickly because you can log so many things though.

[stevieturbo]

Quote Removed.

The problem I found with the DTA traction control, was sometimes it simply didnt react.
On many occasions I've seen excessive wheelspin when TCS should have activated. One almost caught me out badly going over a bridge when the car went light lol

Whether it's a power vs traction thing I dont know, in reality it shouldnt be as the electronics should work far faster than anything the wheels are doing.

But the additional the Syvecs offers is just huge, especially boost control which is superb with many many options to the driver, traction, logging, closed loop lambda, knock control.

It is of course a bit more expensive, but after moving I feel it is very much a price worth paying.

But if Neal opts for DTA definitely speak to Martin, I bought mine from him many years ago.

Edited by Big Al. on Sunday 7th December 12:24

[turbospud]

i have one of davids systems on my mk2 escort it gives you traction,launch,paddleshift,full datalogging,works alongside your exsiting ecu,i have wet/dry/variable traction control and it manages the 560bhp no problem
http://www.xoomspeed.com/xoombox/xoombox.htm

give me a shout if you need any more info

[stevieturbo]

turbospud said:

i have one of davids systems on my mk2 escort it gives you traction,launch,paddleshift,full datalogging,works alongside your exsiting ecu,i have wet/dry/variable traction control and it manages the 560bhp no problem
http://www.xoomspeed.com/xoombox/xoombox.htm

give me a shout if you need any more info

Wonder will they delete this post as well ?

Not so sure how well that add on might cope with 8cyls and pushing 1000hp though ?

Get the Syvecs, it's everything in one box.

[turbospud]

sorry stevie,im not advertising anything,i just have it fitted to my machine,works great and would think it will cope with anything you can make it work on,everything in one box without the price tag,stephen has won the sprint championship with it fitted so it must be doing something

[neal1980]

Thanks for the reply's....went on the XoomBox site but when you click shop it says page not displayed so couldn't get any prices...and the website doesn't really tell me much about it.

Not heard of this before is it comparable to racelogic ??

I don't mind changing the whole ECU if its better (Syvecs maybe)... but all I really want is the traction control as the megasquirt is working fine at present and my boost control is done via a Eboost 2.


ETA - What's been removed what did I miss??

Edited by neal1980 on Sunday 7th December 21:40

[stevieturbo]

turbospud said:

sorry stevie,im not advertising anything,i just have it fitted to my machine,works great and would think it will cope with anything you can make it work on,everything in one box without the price tag,stephen has won the sprint championship with it fitted so it must be doing something

Martin wasnt advertising either...it was just bad coincidence how his first post appeared.

Neal, you just missed another DTA user offering his help with the DTA who is using an S80 on his own rally car with traction control enabled.

neal1980 said:

I don't mind changing the whole ECU if its better (Syvecs maybe)... but all I really want is the traction control as the megasquirt is working fine at present and my boost control is done via a Eboost 2.


ETA - What's been removed what did I miss??

It goes far beyond just traction control. EBoost is great for rock solid boost. But it cannot offer you the massive array of boost control options the Syvecs does, which will be even more important with a powerful car.
Boost by rpm/tps/gear, and via the Cal switch up to 12 settings with any amount of those variables on each. This can give you a lot of control over power delivery.
Likewise the traction control gives you up to 12 user settings you can define yourself.

It just gives you so many options.

[anonymous-user]

TBH, all the aftermarket traction control systems are pretty "clumsy" because they don't have the luxury of a Torque Based Engine management system to work with! Without accurate characterisation of engine flywheel torque across ALL operating conditions no traction control system is going to be able to be as subtle as the best OEM systems, that can be fully adaptive as well as control torque to usually something like +-10Nm at the drive wheels these days.....


(have a think about all the parameters that go to influence tyre slip and you can see why having a dynamics model with predictive / feedforward torque limitation is important)

[stevieturbo]

Max_Torque said:

TBH, all the aftermarket traction control systems are pretty "clumsy" because they don't have the luxury of a Torque Based Engine management system to work with! Without accurate characterisation of engine flywheel torque across ALL operating conditions no traction control system is going to be able to be as subtle as the best OEM systems, that can be fully adaptive as well as control torque to usually something like +-10Nm at the drive wheels these days.....


(have a think about all the parameters that go to influence tyre slip and you can see why having a dynamics model with predictive / feedforward torque limitation is important)

Whilst I'm clueless as to how it works, pretty sure Syvecs can do torque estimation...at least pretty sure their S8 uses it for the likes of the GTR's, Lambo's etc

On the same note, I've never heard too many people sing praises about a lot of OEM TCS systems. Usually their more than abrupt killing power sometimes dangerously

[andygtt]

jumping on the band wagon here... what would you run a BMW V10 with twin turbos and bells and whistles on?

Ive a feeling the M800 won't cut it without 10million quid of unlocks lol

[stevieturbo]

andygtt said:

jumping on the band wagon here... what would you run a BMW V10 with twin turbos and bells and whistles on?

Ive a feeling the M800 won't cut it without 10million quid of unlocks lol

Syvecs S8 would do it wasted spark or S12 with everything direct.

Of course depends what you class as bells and whistles.

As an example of a V10 twinn turbo, they offer plug n play kits for the likes of the Lamborghini Gallardo running both engine and transmission controls where required ( eg GTR's clutch and box controls )

http://www.syvecs.co.uk/products/lamborghini-galla...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPbj19mJ02Q

[anonymous-user]

stevieturbo said:

On the same note, I've never heard too many people sing praises about a lot of OEM TCS systems. Usually their more than abrupt killing power sometimes dangerously

I suspect you might be confusing people not liking the "safety first" basic calibration of the typical OEM stability control system, rather than the systems control accuracy! IE, yes OEM systems tend to keep torque off longer than an experienced driver might like, but they do this for a good reason!!!