£10-13k hero.....335/535 - is there anything else?
Discussion
Hi all,
Sorry for another 'what car' thread.....but I'm just wondering if I've ruled out everything, or if the PH'ers will suggest a gem I've missed?
I have a budget of £10-13k for a 4 door 'sensible' car, my requirements are as follows:
- 4/5 doors
- fast as possible, sub 14 0-100mph etc
- not insane running costs
- 25mpg+
- not £500 a year tax
- Stylish and good to drive
- A few toys/comfortable
It's to replace a BMW z4 3.0, which is about the minimum performance I can live with, so I don't want anything slower. Happy to remap the car for extra power, so I'm drawn towards a 335i/335d or 535d as this seems to tick all the boxes nicely. I'm not yet sure if a diesel is a good idea as I drive about 20 miles a day (10 each way) an then the odd longer trips at weekends, I've read lower miles/shorter trips isn't too healthy for a diesel and as I'm not doing huge miles I don't think the saving will be there on the fuel, currently my fuel costs are around £100-120 a month (700 miles I guess). I don't want anything that could be v v expensive to run so rules out something like an E39 m5.
I've ruled out:
- Audi S4 - £500+ tax, prob low 20's MPG.
- Insignia VXR - newer car but not sure I can deal with the Image, and probably not the best drivers car?
- Jags - prob too expensive to run a S-type R and the XF is a bit big/out of budget for one with sensible miles
- Impreza - can get a new shape one but I'm just not a fan of these, interior not the best, hate the styling etc.
- Merc CLS500's and other Merc's like that, seem v heavy so poor MPG, expensive to tax and service I imagine.
I think post remap I'll need 300bhp+ to not loose too much speed, so this also rules out alot of cars, I can't see anything better than the 335/535 out there - anything I've missed though?
Thanks all for any replies.
Sorry for another 'what car' thread.....but I'm just wondering if I've ruled out everything, or if the PH'ers will suggest a gem I've missed?
I have a budget of £10-13k for a 4 door 'sensible' car, my requirements are as follows:
- 4/5 doors
- fast as possible, sub 14 0-100mph etc
- not insane running costs
- 25mpg+
- not £500 a year tax
- Stylish and good to drive
- A few toys/comfortable
It's to replace a BMW z4 3.0, which is about the minimum performance I can live with, so I don't want anything slower. Happy to remap the car for extra power, so I'm drawn towards a 335i/335d or 535d as this seems to tick all the boxes nicely. I'm not yet sure if a diesel is a good idea as I drive about 20 miles a day (10 each way) an then the odd longer trips at weekends, I've read lower miles/shorter trips isn't too healthy for a diesel and as I'm not doing huge miles I don't think the saving will be there on the fuel, currently my fuel costs are around £100-120 a month (700 miles I guess). I don't want anything that could be v v expensive to run so rules out something like an E39 m5.
I've ruled out:
- Audi S4 - £500+ tax, prob low 20's MPG.
- Insignia VXR - newer car but not sure I can deal with the Image, and probably not the best drivers car?
- Jags - prob too expensive to run a S-type R and the XF is a bit big/out of budget for one with sensible miles
- Impreza - can get a new shape one but I'm just not a fan of these, interior not the best, hate the styling etc.
- Merc CLS500's and other Merc's like that, seem v heavy so poor MPG, expensive to tax and service I imagine.
I think post remap I'll need 300bhp+ to not loose too much speed, so this also rules out alot of cars, I can't see anything better than the 335/535 out there - anything I've missed though?
Thanks all for any replies.
Why is £500 a year to tax an issue? It's a very small cost in the grand scheme of things, and you want to pay 14k for a car?
Think of it as 5 tanks of unleaded.
I'm going to suggest petrol 335i saloon out of that lot. If you do low miles, don't bother with derv. Diesel is about to become unpopular, anyway.
A very decent C6 S6 V10 is available around that mark, but, 17mpg.
Think of it as 5 tanks of unleaded.
I'm going to suggest petrol 335i saloon out of that lot. If you do low miles, don't bother with derv. Diesel is about to become unpopular, anyway.
A very decent C6 S6 V10 is available around that mark, but, 17mpg.
Edited by Atmospheric on Tuesday 9th December 12:52
Thanks all.
645i is not 4 door, a 545 I was tempted but they seem impossible to shift on, I think you'd struggle to get 25mpg from one unless you had a nice easy motorway drive (mines country lanes).
Well remember a £14k car is an asset, which yes will depreciate but it's over a period of time, £500 a year in tax is pure money you'll never see again. My Z4 has lost me £100 a month in depreciation over the 5 years I've had it, which seems pretty good, £500 a year tax is £41 a month JUST in tax. i.e £20 a month more than a £250 tax car, which over 5 years is £1250. So over a 5 year period you could buy a car costing £1250 more, which will prob retain £400 of that value.
Not being anal here, just trying to explain why for me I don't want to spend out £500 a year on tax, I prefer to buy the car and have sensible yearly costs where possible. I do alot of town driving so I worry a big engine will be VERY expensive in fuel.
645i is not 4 door, a 545 I was tempted but they seem impossible to shift on, I think you'd struggle to get 25mpg from one unless you had a nice easy motorway drive (mines country lanes).
Well remember a £14k car is an asset, which yes will depreciate but it's over a period of time, £500 a year in tax is pure money you'll never see again. My Z4 has lost me £100 a month in depreciation over the 5 years I've had it, which seems pretty good, £500 a year tax is £41 a month JUST in tax. i.e £20 a month more than a £250 tax car, which over 5 years is £1250. So over a 5 year period you could buy a car costing £1250 more, which will prob retain £400 of that value.
Not being anal here, just trying to explain why for me I don't want to spend out £500 a year on tax, I prefer to buy the car and have sensible yearly costs where possible. I do alot of town driving so I worry a big engine will be VERY expensive in fuel.
£10k to £13k will get you a nice 335i in coupe, saloon or touring form.
A 335i petrol twin turbo is good value used (especially when you compare its used price v's other BMW's of that age such as 335d and M3 it looks like a lot of performance per £).
Simple £500 upgrade gives close to 380 bhp once you get bored with 300 bhp.
Running costs are low compared with an M3.
My one is now on 192,000 miles and still going strong, a 2006 335i.
A 335i petrol twin turbo is good value used (especially when you compare its used price v's other BMW's of that age such as 335d and M3 it looks like a lot of performance per £).
Simple £500 upgrade gives close to 380 bhp once you get bored with 300 bhp.
Running costs are low compared with an M3.
My one is now on 192,000 miles and still going strong, a 2006 335i.
Yes they seem v v good for the money, and manual too. I wouldn't mind an auto but I think the 335 autos are the older box, the mid 2007 5 series gets the newer Sports box so if I went for a 535d I'd prob go for that LCI updated model.
That CLS 350 isn't a bad shout, but prob not fast enough, remap to maybe 280/300 but aren't they are 2+ ton? Vs sub 1700 for a 3 or 5 series with 350-380bhp. Also the new one makes the old one look v dated now, plus most seem to have the horrid wood dash.
That CLS 350 isn't a bad shout, but prob not fast enough, remap to maybe 280/300 but aren't they are 2+ ton? Vs sub 1700 for a 3 or 5 series with 350-380bhp. Also the new one makes the old one look v dated now, plus most seem to have the horrid wood dash.
mrdanbartlett said:
Thanks all.
645i is not 4 door, a 545 I was tempted but they seem impossible to shift on, I think you'd struggle to get 25mpg from one unless you had a nice easy motorway drive (mines country lanes).
Well remember a £14k car is an asset, which yes will depreciate but it's over a period of time, £500 a year in tax is pure money you'll never see again. My Z4 has lost me £100 a month in depreciation over the 5 years I've had it, which seems pretty good, £500 a year tax is £41 a month JUST in tax. i.e £20 a month more than a £250 tax car, which over 5 years is £1250. So over a 5 year period you could buy a car costing £1250 more, which will prob retain £400 of that value.
Not being anal here, just trying to explain why for me I don't want to spend out £500 a year on tax, I prefer to buy the car and have sensible yearly costs where possible. I do alot of town driving so I worry a big engine will be VERY expensive in fuel.
My 350Z costs me £500 to tax, £250 to insure, £40 for an MOT, but, it hasn't depreciated below what I paid for it in 16 months of having it, throw in brakes which I changed myself for £200 all round and the difference between Super (which it needs) and Normal, plus the 20 mpg versus whatever else I would have, when I weigh it up, it has cost me less than £100 a month.645i is not 4 door, a 545 I was tempted but they seem impossible to shift on, I think you'd struggle to get 25mpg from one unless you had a nice easy motorway drive (mines country lanes).
Well remember a £14k car is an asset, which yes will depreciate but it's over a period of time, £500 a year in tax is pure money you'll never see again. My Z4 has lost me £100 a month in depreciation over the 5 years I've had it, which seems pretty good, £500 a year tax is £41 a month JUST in tax. i.e £20 a month more than a £250 tax car, which over 5 years is £1250. So over a 5 year period you could buy a car costing £1250 more, which will prob retain £400 of that value.
Not being anal here, just trying to explain why for me I don't want to spend out £500 a year on tax, I prefer to buy the car and have sensible yearly costs where possible. I do alot of town driving so I worry a big engine will be VERY expensive in fuel.
So, £100 a month, people pay several times that to lease a Diesel German thing, plus they still have to run it, all in the name of saving money.
I could run something cheaper, but even a £1000 banger would cost a fair proportion of what this costs me, most are at least £240 to tax, they are never as economical as you think they are going to be, maybe 28 vs 30 mpg, i cant imagine the insurance being much cheaper than £250.
So, I reckon, my 350Z probably costs me a premium of £50 a month over something I would hate, so it is worth it.
Point being, look at the whole cost of running a given car, £500 tax means you can potentially get more off the price, try and buy something that depreciates slowly, nail the seller to the floor if you can, make daft offers.
You can buy a CLS55 for £13k. Monsterous performance and great sound. Very comfortable too. Cheap tax. But, it is undeniably thirsty.
Personally prefer it to the much lauded 63 engine. So lazy, but so fast. Perfect for a road car.
I've had / got some pretty tasty metal and bought one as a stop gap for a few months. I have been utterly seduced and would have to be wrenched from it now.
Personally prefer it to the much lauded 63 engine. So lazy, but so fast. Perfect for a road car.
I've had / got some pretty tasty metal and bought one as a stop gap for a few months. I have been utterly seduced and would have to be wrenched from it now.
My C55 AMG would fit the bill. If you get one six months older than mine you get the lower tax bracket. Faster than your choices with a V8 sound track. Less maintenance, more robust and lighter than its supercharged brothers (cls55/e55) and without the complex air suspension. Style is dated to some eyes but I love mine in estate guise, smile every time I look at it.
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/mercedes_c_55_a...
It is thirsty and auto though but track times etc. are right up there.
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/mercedes_c_55_a...
It is thirsty and auto though but track times etc. are right up there.
Well, sounds like you like your BMW's but for something a bit different you could try an alfa guilietta QV with an AHM (or similar quality) remap. You'll get a 2011 car for under 13k, plus 500 for the remap, and you'll have a modern 5dr car with plenty of toys, under 200 co2, so the cheap tax you want, 35mpg plus on a run but also 290bhp, which should get you the performance you need. Under rated car i reckon, certainly for the money. No powerslides though.....
Wow thanks for so many replies.
CLS/C55 amg's - hmm its 367bhp but pretty heavy? A remapped 335/535 is 350-380 and lighter. Plus I imagine better on fuel, and probably cheaper to run. Maybe I should consider some TD's on these though.
FD2 type r - interesting as I'd never seen one of these, or knew it existed, but surely it's the 197bhp type R engine, which is going to be a bit gutless in a saloon, I think I need 300bhp min for a 1500kg+ car. My Z4 feels slow so I was hopeing for something at least as fast if not quicker.
VXR's - seem £20+, they must be pretty quick though and probably v reliable!
E36 m3 Saloon defo way to old for me, driven the 3dr 3.2 Evo though and it was a nice car.
130i too slow, and the 5dr 135i is alot of money still (shame as would prob be ideal).
Thanks all so much, so many good and varried replies, such a great forum.
CLS/C55 amg's - hmm its 367bhp but pretty heavy? A remapped 335/535 is 350-380 and lighter. Plus I imagine better on fuel, and probably cheaper to run. Maybe I should consider some TD's on these though.
FD2 type r - interesting as I'd never seen one of these, or knew it existed, but surely it's the 197bhp type R engine, which is going to be a bit gutless in a saloon, I think I need 300bhp min for a 1500kg+ car. My Z4 feels slow so I was hopeing for something at least as fast if not quicker.
VXR's - seem £20+, they must be pretty quick though and probably v reliable!
E36 m3 Saloon defo way to old for me, driven the 3dr 3.2 Evo though and it was a nice car.
130i too slow, and the 5dr 135i is alot of money still (shame as would prob be ideal).
Thanks all so much, so many good and varried replies, such a great forum.
ITP said:
Well, sounds like you like your BMW's but for something a bit different you could try an alfa guilietta QV with an AHM (or similar quality) remap. You'll get a 2011 car for under 13k, plus 500 for the remap, and you'll have a modern 5dr car with plenty of toys, under 200 co2, so the cheap tax you want, 35mpg plus on a run but also 290bhp, which should get you the performance you need. Under rated car i reckon, certainly for the money. No powerslides though.....
Gosh now that's a rabbit out of the hat, risky ALfa reliability but this could be worth a little look too, interesting as on paper that's alot of car (age/miles etc for the price).Aside from what you have already said, it's quite a tough brief. Your budget would get you a lot of Golf R32 for your money, ticks the 4 door box and you could spend the considerable change you would have on getting it to 300bhp which shouldn't be too hard? Then again if you hang on for a while all of those golf r's that were leased are going to come on the market soon. There was one up for £16k on ebay when I just looked.
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