Button v Alonso

[Likes Fast Cars]

007 VXR said:

deadslow said:

Dream season would be for the Maccas to start off midfield and gradually work their way to the front through brilliant car development (which used to be a given at McLaren) and epic driving (both are capable), with the championship finale coming down to 4 drivers on the last day and JB/FA victory (happy for either to win).

However, will probs be a repeat of this year, but we live in hope.

this would be nice

One thing I could not stomach is a FA win. JB, yes absolutely. Daniel Ricciardo, yes to that too. Lewis? Yes. Although I don't want to see Merc run away with it again. Bottas? Yes. But not the Spaniard.

[Likes Fast Cars]

VolvoT5 said:

Also with Ron's slightly bhy comments about Lewis - I can't help but wonder if Lewis turned Ron down at some point this year.

Edited by VolvoT5 on Sunday 14th December 13:44

It has all makings of it doesn't it? Think about it. There were rumours that FA had painted himself into a corner and could have been left on the sidelines for next year (and of course now he says he had the deal done months ago, but based on recent months of speculation it appears that may not be so, and FA couldn't lie straight in bed anyway so I would take anything he says with a pinch of salt).

So Lewis was probably approached by Ron, and at that point in time said "let's see how the year goes with Merc and Nico & I, and what plans you (McL) have for Honda and next year" etc., then when the cards starting falling Lewis's way at Merc he got his head down and won the WDC. Result: now in a much stronger position to negotiate and even more lucrative deal for next year (and beyond) with the best car on the grid.

So Ron is stuck with FA and all the backroom deals trying to keep his end of the bargain up with buying a larger stake in the team, getting new & lucrative sponsors, etc., and with the driver dilemma.

Ron is in a situation where maybe there was a lot of flack from Ojjeh and others for not getting Lewis back, leaving Ron with having to slate Lewis and make it look as though he is control of the situation.

Again it's only more PH speculation

[deadslow]

Likes Fast Cars said:

007 VXR said:

deadslow said:

Dream season would be for the Maccas to start off midfield and gradually work their way to the front through brilliant car development (which used to be a given at McLaren) and epic driving (both are capable), with the championship finale coming down to 4 drivers on the last day and JB/FA victory (happy for either to win).

However, will probs be a repeat of this year, but we live in hope.

this would be nice

One thing I could not stomach is a FA win. JB, yes absolutely. Daniel Ricciardo, yes to that too. Lewis? Yes. Although I don't want to see Merc run away with it again. Bottas? Yes. But not the Spaniard.

Best not watch then

[Likes Fast Cars]

Cheese Mechanic said:

Likes Fast Cars said:

Can't wait for 2015 to arrive and for the action to start!

I'm of a similar tilt. I did not follow this past years races, as Merc had such a huge advantage, making things too predictable. Plus of course too many knuckle dragging LH fanboys pissing into what still could have been decent (if predictable) bathwater.

2015 will simply be worth watching to see how McLaren pans out. I feel the two drivers will be pretty even, but hopefully Mc will have a car the equal of anyone.

Not sure where I sit in all that
I love Lewis as a driver, I think he's incredibly talented (more so than Fred), but I have been critical of him especially at times this year as he does sometimes go off a little instead of just getting on with it.

But I have to say I really am a big JB fan, would love to see him win a few races next year and show a clean set of heels to Fred and others. I'm also now a confirmed DR supporter (except I hate Helmut Marko and his BS, so I don't like Red Bull). Dilemma, but I want to see DR win because he deserves to (good driver, excellent temperament, positive outlook, gets on with things).

I have always been a McLaren fan but after Ron's stupidity over the past month or 2 I have gone a little cold on the team (but not on JB), so when the first race comes around I'll have to get off the fence and will probably be rooting for McLaren (although not so much for the slimy Spaniard).

[Likes Fast Cars]

deadslow said:

Best not watch then

Maybe I shouldn't ..... declare a total media blackout for 8-9 months and then tune-in around late November to find out what happened

[deadslow]

Likes Fast Cars said:

deadslow said:

Best not watch then

Maybe I shouldn't ..... declare a total media blackout for 8-9 months and then tune-in around late November to find out what happened

Suspect next year will be a re-run of this year, so you might be going along the right lines

[Likes Fast Cars]

deadslow said:

Likes Fast Cars said:

deadslow said:

Best not watch then

Maybe I shouldn't ..... declare a total media blackout for 8-9 months and then tune-in around late November to find out what happened

Suspect next year will be a re-run of this year, so you might be going along the right lines

You mean it will be de ja vu? Like RBR for 3 years (well, 2010 was in the balance for Webber vs Seb, 2011 wasn't so bad for the first few races as I recall), when Finger just waltzed off into the distance.
In which case let;s hope it;s Nico vs Hammers for at least the first half of the season.

Actually where I live I have to sort of "work around" to get coverage each race weekend

So my self-imposed media blackout may be easier done than said!

[coetzeeh]

Likes Fast Cars said:

VolvoT5 said:

Also with Ron's slightly bhy comments about Lewis - I can't help but wonder if Lewis turned Ron down at some point this year.

Edited by VolvoT5 on Sunday 14th December 13:44

It has all makings of it doesn't it? Think about it. There were rumours that FA had painted himself into a corner and could have been left on the sidelines for next year (and of course now he says he had the deal done months ago, but based on recent months of speculation it appears that may not be so, and FA couldn't lie straight in bed anyway so I would take anything he says with a pinch of salt).

So Lewis was probably approached by Ron, and at that point in time said "let's see how the year goes with Merc and Nico & I, and what plans you (McL) have for Honda and next year" etc., then when the cards starting falling Lewis's way at Merc he got his head down and won the WDC. Result: now in a much stronger position to negotiate and even more lucrative deal for next year (and beyond) with the best car on the grid.

So Ron is stuck with FA and all the backroom deals trying to keep his end of the bargain up with buying a larger stake in the team, getting new & lucrative sponsors, etc., and with the driver dilemma.

Ron is in a situation where maybe there was a lot of flack from Ojjeh and others for not getting Lewis back, leaving Ron with having to slate Lewis and make it look as though he is control of the situation.

Again it's only more PH speculation

Ron himself said that the Alonso deal was done months ago. Also, remember during the summer break Alonso said he would not be driving a Merc engined car in 2015. Back then the who F1 paddock "knew" Alonso was going to McHonda.

[Likes Fast Cars]

coetzeeh said:

Ron himself said that the Alonso deal was done months ago. Also, remember during the summer break Alonso said he would not be driving a Merc engined car in 2015. Back then the who F1 paddock "knew" Alonso was going to McHonda.

He did, you;re right. But maybe it's just more spin from Ron? If so, more shame on him for not announcing that over the past few months when asked about the driver line-up. He could have at least said "we have one former WDC signed and ready to announce, which we will do when we have agreed on the final driver pairing and other contractual arrangements have been out into place".
As for Fred, he got the picture that he could not get a Merc drive, he was probably faced with either McHonda or Lotus (who at the time had not announced the Merc engine deal, nor Grosjean being confirmed, and Boullier by all accounts was pushing to get Grosjean a drive at McL), or possibly even some other option.
There has been so much innuendo about this that the truth lies somewhere in between what has been said heard and what reliable sources claim happened.
We'll have to wait several years for the book to come out....

[HardtopManual]

Isn't all this talk about designing the car around one driver or the other a little redundant when those two drivers are Alonso and Button? It's well-known that Alonso likes a car that understeers, and Button likes a very stable rear end. Those preferences aren't exactly a million miles from each other.

[Europa1]

For some cracking Ronspeak, see the McLaren statement on Ron buying a majority shareholding in the team: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30452819

[Likes Fast Cars]

HardtopManual said:

Isn't all this talk about designing the car around one driver or the other a little redundant when those two drivers are Alonso and Button? It's well-known that Alonso likes a car that understeers, and Button likes a very stable rear end. Those preferences aren't exactly a million miles from each other.

Maybe. In which case, cannot wait to see JB get some great results next season, as long as McL gets the car design right.

[HardtopManual]

Yes, fingers crossed that they can improve things quickly now that Prodromou is onboard. He's on record now as saying that the MP4-29's aero was a mess, which is something we always knew, given their poor showing with the best power unit.

The design of the late-2014 McLaren front wing suggests to me that the MP4-30 will closely resemble a Red Bull, a car often credited with being the most benign and stable on the grid. I wouldn't put money on FA and JB having to make do with scrapping to get into the points next year...

[Likes Fast Cars]

Do you think Prodromou has enough time to get it right for the start of 2015? Or will the car need a few "upgrades" along the way to get it right?

[MrKipling43]

HardtopManual said:

Isn't all this talk about designing the car around one driver or the other a little redundant when those two drivers are Alonso and Button? It's well-known that Alonso likes a car that understeers, and Button likes a very stable rear end. Those preferences aren't exactly a million miles from each other.

This idea of building a car to a driver's taste is a MYTH. Teams design and build the fastest car they possibly can, then it's up to the driver to get the most out of it.

[VolvoT5]

NRS said:

I also suspect Toto wouldn't want him. They treat them equally, and he doesn't want someone who would destabilize the team. It was just held within control the last year, but with Alonso's personality... That's assuming the car is still good, if it's a problem car they might be more interested in him.

It isn't about whether Toto (or any other team boss) would want Alonso... the point I was trying to make is that Alonso may not be loyal to Mclaren - at the first sight of an immediately competitive seat elsewhere he will be looking to move. He is desperate for success and running out of time.

[hairyben]

MrKipling43 said:

This idea of building a car to a driver's taste is a MYTH. Teams design and build the fastest car they possibly can, then it's up to the driver to get the most out of it.

True, but a driver can move development of a cars characteristics to suit his style/needs simply through the feedback he gives. Probably gets overstated though.

[Walford]

The Honda will be competitive, they have been watching and learning and they know what they are up against, unlike last years first runners

[Likes Fast Cars]

Let's hope so.

[suffolk009]

Walford said:

The Honda will be competitive, they have been watching and learning and they know what they are up against, unlike last years first runners

I hope that is the case. I don't understand why people expect Honda to perform badly out of the box.

In the PH tradition of predictions, I think by the end of season the uppity Spaniard will best Button on Qualifying and Podiums, but Button will have more points.