RE: New Focus RS confirmed
Discussion
.TheDoggingFather said:
Whoah, I was under the impression that both had considerable deposits put down on them before they even got in to the show room? Not once did I say it wouldn't sell because it's not a good car. I was merely stating that Ford has a massive following with very dedicated owners who are very happy to put money down on the basis that they want to get behind the wheel of the next generation of Fast Ford.
As far as competing goes, I think it depends exactly where Ford place it in the market. If it's top end Golf GTi money and with a significant power hike, then it'll sell like hotcakes, especially if they include some gaudy colour as per the MK2 RS, so it really stands out from the crowd.
As for FWD, never owned a RWD car. Yes I've driven fast BMW diesels, BMW petrols and I've even tracked the hallowed MX5. However I started in Mini's, I currently drive a Civic which has a torsen differential and at the same track day I drove a Clio 172 round the track which I found I was instantly a lot more confident behind the wheel. Did I feel less confident due to lack of experience in the MX5, yes of course, was it more fun than the Clio, not sure, exciting definitely.To my mind there will always be a place for a fast front driver, but there are some definite advantages with a decent rear drive chassis, the steering feel in particular. Four wheel drive? Other than a couple of off roaders, I've only driven an A3 2.0t quattro and that just felt odd, but that was a relatively old Haldex system so not a great comparison. Hot hatches started front wheel drive so probably should remain so, I do love the feeling of an lsd pulling the nose tight into a corner, but until I've driven a Golf R (mk7), new S3 or Merc A45, I shall reserve judgement on the all wheel drive potential.
So to summarise, I think the Focus RS will sell regardless because of its faithful following and because Ford can make a decent stab at a hot hatch.
No you are correct you did not once say ford made a bad hot hatch, however you did not include the last part of your final sentence last time either. Also "decent stab" is a bit light, however the honda reference above probably shines light on that one.As far as competing goes, I think it depends exactly where Ford place it in the market. If it's top end Golf GTi money and with a significant power hike, then it'll sell like hotcakes, especially if they include some gaudy colour as per the MK2 RS, so it really stands out from the crowd.
As for FWD, never owned a RWD car. Yes I've driven fast BMW diesels, BMW petrols and I've even tracked the hallowed MX5. However I started in Mini's, I currently drive a Civic which has a torsen differential and at the same track day I drove a Clio 172 round the track which I found I was instantly a lot more confident behind the wheel. Did I feel less confident due to lack of experience in the MX5, yes of course, was it more fun than the Clio, not sure, exciting definitely.To my mind there will always be a place for a fast front driver, but there are some definite advantages with a decent rear drive chassis, the steering feel in particular. Four wheel drive? Other than a couple of off roaders, I've only driven an A3 2.0t quattro and that just felt odd, but that was a relatively old Haldex system so not a great comparison. Hot hatches started front wheel drive so probably should remain so, I do love the feeling of an lsd pulling the nose tight into a corner, but until I've driven a Golf R (mk7), new S3 or Merc A45, I shall reserve judgement on the all wheel drive potential.
So to summarise, I think the Focus RS will sell regardless because of its faithful following and because Ford can make a decent stab at a hot hatch.
I would say RS's have a following because the majority have been good, affordable fast cars. you seem to infer that people would keep buying RSs even if they were rubbish, I don't think they would.
then again just my opinion what do i know
the point i was making was if the price was going to be north of £30k it would need to be more than 300bhp and AWD in order to compete 'on paper' against cars in that bracket, S3, Golf R, RS3, A45 AMG for example.
Ford have pretty much always nailed that 'honest, white collar performance' niche by pricing their cars just under the premium brands and offering 9/10ths of the performance.
If they aim it in the same price range as the premium competition it will have to be something more than trick diffs and bright paint in order to be a success.
again, imo.
I have always had a soft spot for performance fords, which started in my youth. M1 & M2 Escort RS2000's, series one RS turbo, Fiesta RS turbo (RS1800 as well) and of course the cosworth range. I think they have smashed it with the Focuses of late too. the 220ST upwards have been mighty.
Hope this one is not priced out of its comfort zone.
Ford have pretty much always nailed that 'honest, white collar performance' niche by pricing their cars just under the premium brands and offering 9/10ths of the performance.
If they aim it in the same price range as the premium competition it will have to be something more than trick diffs and bright paint in order to be a success.
again, imo.
I have always had a soft spot for performance fords, which started in my youth. M1 & M2 Escort RS2000's, series one RS turbo, Fiesta RS turbo (RS1800 as well) and of course the cosworth range. I think they have smashed it with the Focuses of late too. the 220ST upwards have been mighty.
Hope this one is not priced out of its comfort zone.
stargazer30 said:
I'd rather have something light, RWD, with 200bhp, with decent torque. (maybe I'm getting too old!)
No you're not, same here. Although I don't really need decent torque. Those 200hp do come from a combination of torque and revs so providing it comes with a torque multiplier (some call it a gearbox), I am sorted. Probably also easier to manage traction with progressive power. GT86 in other words.nickfrog said:
stargazer30 said:
I'd rather have something light, RWD, with 200bhp, with decent torque. (maybe I'm getting too old!)
No you're not, same here. Although I don't really need decent torque. Those 200hp do come from a combination of torque and revs so providing it comes with a torque multiplier (some call it a gearbox), I am sorted. Probably also easier to manage traction with progressive power. GT86 in other words.Though that's certainly not the impression that one gets reading PH.
TheDoggingFather said:
In that case they will have to build something properly special. Having something special as limited run halo model is one thing, but to effectively reintroduce the RS as a range it's really going to have to stand out. Like the Cosworth powered cars of the 80's/90's did. Particularly bearing in mind that the RS brand is well known in the UK and has a reasonable following in Europe, but outside of that it is a relative unknown.
Very true but special doesn't come cheap, neither did the Cosworth badge back in the day. If they throw it into the 40k bracket as I say no doubt it will sell well in the UK but elsewhere I really cant see it shifting at that kind of money.Johnnytheboy said:
nickfrog said:
stargazer30 said:
I'd rather have something light, RWD, with 200bhp, with decent torque. (maybe I'm getting too old!)
No you're not, same here. Although I don't really need decent torque. Those 200hp do come from a combination of torque and revs so providing it comes with a torque multiplier (some call it a gearbox), I am sorted. Probably also easier to manage traction with progressive power. GT86 in other words.Though that's certainly not the impression that one gets reading PH.
With the current breed of hot hatches its all about BHP and torque figures, at levels which, in a FWD car, are unusable on public roads legally 90% of the time.
After_Shock said:
Very true but special doesn't come cheap, neither did the Cosworth badge back in the day. If they throw it into the 40k bracket as I say no doubt it will sell well in the UK but elsewhere I really cant see it shifting at that kind of money.
I think when it was first used the Cosworth badge was cheap for performance offered£15950 for a Sierra Cosworth
£16275 for a 325iSE ( M3 was around £23k )
Lancia Thema turbo LX £16995
Audi Quattro £26300
Merc 190 2.3-16 £24600
Porsche 924S £18400
Saab 900 turbo 16 £16995
aeropilot said:
Carl_Docklands said:
To maintain the legend started by the Escort Cossie
What legend started by the Escort Cosworth...... 
A mere 10 x WRC event wins doth not maketh a legend.
Unless you are wearing fan-boy blinkers, the last Ford to wear the RS moniker with distinction was the Sierra.
It may not have won much in WRC but in terms of hearts and minds, the car hit a price/performance high note that Ford have never quite captured since.
A true Escort Cosworth follow-up (4WD, Bespoke) would not win any WRC events either but the interest in the car would come from wider than your usual Fast Ford reader.
I am surprised that such a large corporation does not green-light a halo car like this, yet another 'badge job' FWD Focus shows lack of ambition.
Edited by Carl_Docklands on Sunday 21st December 19:48
TheDoggingFather said:
That is a trackday special though, whereas the RS is a full fat road car.
Full fat indeed. It looks a mess, even for a road car. And that's the RS500. Having driven the MINI, it's half decent on the road actually. It goes to show, power doesn't compensate for weight.http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetevovideos/288370...
nickfrog said:
TheDoggingFather said:
That is a trackday special though, whereas the RS is a full fat road car.
Full fat indeed. It looks a mess, even for a road car. And that's the RS500. Having driven the MINI, it's half decent on the road actually. It goes to show, power doesn't compensate for weight.http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetevovideos/288370...
Nickbrapp said:
Same style wheels and a big spoiler.
Winner
http://instagram.com/p/yntc80o6SF/
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