Compact Tractor
Discussion
Anyone here run a compact tractor from Japan such as the Kubota or Yanmar?
Looking to get an older one with a tiller, topper and trailer for my new place and wondered if there are any words of wisdom that might be imparted?
Are the 'implements' universal or do you need to buy for a specific PTO etc? Do they have hydraulics for things like tippers/backhoe as standard or does that need to be retro fitted?
Looking to get an older one with a tiller, topper and trailer for my new place and wondered if there are any words of wisdom that might be imparted?
Are the 'implements' universal or do you need to buy for a specific PTO etc? Do they have hydraulics for things like tippers/backhoe as standard or does that need to be retro fitted?
I've got a Kubota 1820 working on about 7 acres, mostly used for carting stuff around but when called upon is more than man enough for my needs and would definitely recommend them as a make (dealer I use in Sussex is really good as well, if that is anything to go on manufacture service backup).
I would say do plenty of research on implements you intend to use with the machine as some of the larger ones require more HP than we currently have, so it's important to match the tractor to how you might expand your garage in the future.
kubota servicing intervals are mostly every 50 hours and the manual that comes with them is very good at detailing all that needs doing at given intervals, so if you're handy with the tools it is quite and easy undertaking.
My one bit of advice would be to avoid cheaper makes if you intend to do some serious work as the frames tend to be a bit lightweight (some of the 'domestic' John Deere fits into this category as well). It's not going to be a machine you want to be trading in in a few years time 'cos there's a newer model out!
I would say do plenty of research on implements you intend to use with the machine as some of the larger ones require more HP than we currently have, so it's important to match the tractor to how you might expand your garage in the future.
kubota servicing intervals are mostly every 50 hours and the manual that comes with them is very good at detailing all that needs doing at given intervals, so if you're handy with the tools it is quite and easy undertaking.
My one bit of advice would be to avoid cheaper makes if you intend to do some serious work as the frames tend to be a bit lightweight (some of the 'domestic' John Deere fits into this category as well). It's not going to be a machine you want to be trading in in a few years time 'cos there's a newer model out!
I can probably help a lot. I've got a Japanese import Yanmar F14D. A model never sold outside Japan. I reckon it's between 25 and 30 years old. It's 4x4, 900cc 3cyl diesel with about 16hp. That gives 14hp at the PTO, hence the name. It has 6 forward and 2 reverse gears, diff lock, independent left and right brakes, three speed PTO. Basically like a full blown tractor, only tiny. I use it with 4ft three bladed finish mower mostly.
I got it directly from the guy who imported it, he buys them from Japanese auctions sight unseen, fills a container and brings them over in batches. These are the type of tractor you see all over eBay with a rotavator on the back. They are used in Japan for tilling rice paddies and only see a few hours use every year. They sometimes look rough because they often live out doors. Mine has got faded paint and cracked tyres but had done less than 500 hours and runs perfectly.
Things worth knowing...
The ones with rotavators on the back don't have a standard three point hitch. The implement is bolted straight to the back of the tractor and you can't easily swap to other attachments. You can buy/fabricate the parts to give you a three point hitch (I have done that). If you look at one that has had the 3ph added already, look at the quality of the bracket that bolts to the bottom of the gearbox and supports the main link arms. These are expensive and dealers often cut corners and use items that aren't really up to it. The proper brackets bolt to the gearbox in at least 4 places to spread the load, if you don't see that you'll need to change it or risk damaging the gearbox casing.
Certainly for my Yanmar, standard service parts are easy enough to get with a bit of cross referencing, but anything more substantial is a real ball ache. There is an excellent American Yanmar specialist but postage costs are mega and I got collared for import duty too. Google "Hoye Tractor", as well as parts they have a lot of info on the various Yanmar models.
Not all these tractors, even of the same model, come with a hydraulics connection (mine did), so if you want to add something that needs hydraulics you'll need to seek one out. You can add hydralics quite easily yourself I understand, if you know what you are doing. They all have a hydraulic pump for raising the implement so it's just a case of understanding how to tap into that system.
Be wary if you plan on using these tractors on slopes. The are quite narrow and can overturn easily. I've had mine on 2 wheels more than once. They are ok if you can just go straight up and down with no traversing. You'll need 4x4 too as the brakes only act on the rear wheels, so when descending you really need engine braking on the front axle to stay in proper control
The American forum Tractorbynet is great for info on small tractors.
I could go on forever, but if you have any questions, just ask.
I got it directly from the guy who imported it, he buys them from Japanese auctions sight unseen, fills a container and brings them over in batches. These are the type of tractor you see all over eBay with a rotavator on the back. They are used in Japan for tilling rice paddies and only see a few hours use every year. They sometimes look rough because they often live out doors. Mine has got faded paint and cracked tyres but had done less than 500 hours and runs perfectly.
Things worth knowing...
The ones with rotavators on the back don't have a standard three point hitch. The implement is bolted straight to the back of the tractor and you can't easily swap to other attachments. You can buy/fabricate the parts to give you a three point hitch (I have done that). If you look at one that has had the 3ph added already, look at the quality of the bracket that bolts to the bottom of the gearbox and supports the main link arms. These are expensive and dealers often cut corners and use items that aren't really up to it. The proper brackets bolt to the gearbox in at least 4 places to spread the load, if you don't see that you'll need to change it or risk damaging the gearbox casing.
Certainly for my Yanmar, standard service parts are easy enough to get with a bit of cross referencing, but anything more substantial is a real ball ache. There is an excellent American Yanmar specialist but postage costs are mega and I got collared for import duty too. Google "Hoye Tractor", as well as parts they have a lot of info on the various Yanmar models.
Not all these tractors, even of the same model, come with a hydraulics connection (mine did), so if you want to add something that needs hydraulics you'll need to seek one out. You can add hydralics quite easily yourself I understand, if you know what you are doing. They all have a hydraulic pump for raising the implement so it's just a case of understanding how to tap into that system.
Be wary if you plan on using these tractors on slopes. The are quite narrow and can overturn easily. I've had mine on 2 wheels more than once. They are ok if you can just go straight up and down with no traversing. You'll need 4x4 too as the brakes only act on the rear wheels, so when descending you really need engine braking on the front axle to stay in proper control
The American forum Tractorbynet is great for info on small tractors.
I could go on forever, but if you have any questions, just ask.
oilydan said:
Are the 'implements' universal or do you need to buy for a specific PTO etc? Do they have hydraulics for things like tippers/backhoe as standard or does that need to be retro fitted?
If you have three point linkage it'll be a category 1, and any cat 1 implemement will fit. You should just check that the PTO is a clockwise one. Occasionally, you'll get an anti clock which is no good for uk implements. The PTO splines should be the right size, but if not you can get adapters. If you plan on using a mower deck, get a PTO overrun clutch otherwise the momentum in the mower blades can continue to push the tractor forward when you want to stop in a hurry..Condi said:
If you can afford the extra Kubota are the one to buy.
Maybe if parts availability is better, but other than that I don't think there is anything to choose between the Japanese brands. Kubota, Yanmar, Hinomoto and Mitsubishi are all superbly engineered. Kubota have the reputation because they have been available officially in Europe for longer. If you can find an older Ford compact, they were made by Mitsubishi, and Yanmar made the older John Deere compacts.ETA: forgot to mention Iseki, they are good too, and it may have been them, rather than Mitsi than made tractors for Ford.
Edited by blueST on Sunday 14th December 12:19
blueST said:
Maybe if parts availability is better, but other than that I don't think there is anything to choose between the Japanese brands.
But parts availability is key. You can save a few hundred quid when buying the thing, but if its sat for 3 weeks while you source a part then its dead money. Personally I would be more aiming at an older European tractor. A classic like a Massey ferguson 35 or TE-20, (David Brown for extra PH points). Parts are easy to get and people know them well. Also they are heavier, which sounds odd , but is better.
If you're determined on a modern one, Kubota is the normal best choice; I've seen a lot on dairy farms scraping s
t, I've seen one with 1500 hours put on it in 2 years! John Deeres under 75hp are dire, so best avoided. But as I said older tractors tend to be heavier built as something 35-50hp now was the top end in its day!
If you're determined on a modern one, Kubota is the normal best choice; I've seen a lot on dairy farms scraping s
t, I've seen one with 1500 hours put on it in 2 years! John Deeres under 75hp are dire, so best avoided. But as I said older tractors tend to be heavier built as something 35-50hp now was the top end in its day!Big tractor equals big mess in winter because of the weight.
OP you don't mention budget,what is it?
My Iseki TM 3265 is for sale,I have a loader with bucket,bale spike and forks.Implement wise I have a rotovator,flail mower,wood chipper and plough. Only problem is I'm in South West France. I now need an excavator in my life!
OP you don't mention budget,what is it?
My Iseki TM 3265 is for sale,I have a loader with bucket,bale spike and forks.Implement wise I have a rotovator,flail mower,wood chipper and plough. Only problem is I'm in South West France. I now need an excavator in my life!
I have extensive experience with compact tractors.
Don't discount the Chinese, I have run a Siromer from new (about 6 yr old) and all it has needed is filters and a new clutch (circa £300) however it is on a side arm flail (clutch heavy) 99% of the time.
Siromer Tractors (Preston) have all spares in stock and are excellent to deal with.
Don't discount the Chinese, I have run a Siromer from new (about 6 yr old) and all it has needed is filters and a new clutch (circa £300) however it is on a side arm flail (clutch heavy) 99% of the time.
Siromer Tractors (Preston) have all spares in stock and are excellent to deal with.
smifffymoto said:
Big tractor equals big mess in winter because of the weight.
Not always. More wieght means more grip, and therefore less spinning , it's one of the reasons I've just upgraded my loader tractor from a 3 ton machine to a 5 ton one. However an older tractor will be 2WD. Although this doesn't matter if it's used in summer, or for light top stuff in winter, 2WD is cheaper to own and more reliable, but less capable, edpecailly if used with a loader when wet. Don't discount parts avaibility and dealer backup, it's the diffrence between a good tractor and a bad one.I was interested in Siromer but there seemed to be no used ones about and I couldn't run to new. Good to hear the quality is decent. If my mower deck ever dies I'll have a look at theirs as a replacement.
You get a lot of advice saying don't bother with compact, get an older full size one, and vice versa. I think the two are different tools for different jobs. If you've got a small bit of land, limited storage or need 4x4 for gradients, compact is the way to go. If not the full size older one makes sense.
If it's predominently for hobby use, a grey import is ok as waiting a week or two for obscure parts is part of the fun. I actually enjoy a bit of detective work in this regard, but it isn't for everyone. Although the likelihood of a major component failure on any tractor is pretty small. If you'll be relying on it for essential work, then something sold officially here is the way to go.
I struggled to know what horsepower I would need. I was really worried 16hp wasn't enough, but it's perfectly adequate for my use, even on very steep gradients. Any tractor has the power to do just about any task, they are so low geared. More power just means you can do it faster, either by using a bigger implement or travelling more quickly.
Above all, buy on condition. A well cared for tractor will last a lifetime.
You get a lot of advice saying don't bother with compact, get an older full size one, and vice versa. I think the two are different tools for different jobs. If you've got a small bit of land, limited storage or need 4x4 for gradients, compact is the way to go. If not the full size older one makes sense.
If it's predominently for hobby use, a grey import is ok as waiting a week or two for obscure parts is part of the fun. I actually enjoy a bit of detective work in this regard, but it isn't for everyone. Although the likelihood of a major component failure on any tractor is pretty small. If you'll be relying on it for essential work, then something sold officially here is the way to go.
I struggled to know what horsepower I would need. I was really worried 16hp wasn't enough, but it's perfectly adequate for my use, even on very steep gradients. Any tractor has the power to do just about any task, they are so low geared. More power just means you can do it faster, either by using a bigger implement or travelling more quickly.
Above all, buy on condition. A well cared for tractor will last a lifetime.
I just bought a Ford LGT14D. It's a cool little thing - probably not up to what you want from it OP (although I can't tell what you want to do with it from your post), but they Ford/New Holland do plenty of compact tractors, and easy to get bits for, it appears. Have a scout about the shminternet for views on them?
Some of the Kubotas are okay, some are horribly built to price - the BX range seem alright, but I've seen and heard of way too many of the ST series being snapped in half with their papier mache chassis. Some of the older import ones are nigh-on bombproof however.
The mid range more modern Massey's (1200 series on) are actually Iseki in drag and a lick of red paint (no bad thing), the New Holland are TYM I think. John Deere are good (once you get above their plasticky domestic range), but they come at a hefty price.
Assuming you have the correct PTO, you'll be able to take any Cat1 implements, just remember particularly the PTO powered ones will require a certain amount of oomph to make them work. I have a 36hp Massey which is handy as I can take small farm implements rather than compact-specific ones - it has both the weight and power to handle them.
It's all down to what you want to do and how hard you want to work it. The market likes Kubota and you will pay for it, both in buying and also servicing (every 50hrs?! Dear god I'd be doing it 2-3 times a year!) and parts can be pricey. Massey/Iseki are workhorses, JD/NH the same but shinier. So worek out what you want to do, then work out what space you have to move around, IE whether you need hi-speed turn facility, or cannot go over a certain chassis size), and go from there. Oh and also look around as to what dealers you have close by and try and get a feel for whether they're any good. We have NH and Massey/Iseki close, JD are miles away and the Kubota dealer has a reputation of ripping everyone off, so all of that narrowed down my choices considerably.
The mid range more modern Massey's (1200 series on) are actually Iseki in drag and a lick of red paint (no bad thing), the New Holland are TYM I think. John Deere are good (once you get above their plasticky domestic range), but they come at a hefty price.
Assuming you have the correct PTO, you'll be able to take any Cat1 implements, just remember particularly the PTO powered ones will require a certain amount of oomph to make them work. I have a 36hp Massey which is handy as I can take small farm implements rather than compact-specific ones - it has both the weight and power to handle them.
It's all down to what you want to do and how hard you want to work it. The market likes Kubota and you will pay for it, both in buying and also servicing (every 50hrs?! Dear god I'd be doing it 2-3 times a year!) and parts can be pricey. Massey/Iseki are workhorses, JD/NH the same but shinier. So worek out what you want to do, then work out what space you have to move around, IE whether you need hi-speed turn facility, or cannot go over a certain chassis size), and go from there. Oh and also look around as to what dealers you have close by and try and get a feel for whether they're any good. We have NH and Massey/Iseki close, JD are miles away and the Kubota dealer has a reputation of ripping everyone off, so all of that narrowed down my choices considerably.
Mf1200 you say? Possibly a little too big? 
If you get a smaller tractor, just make sure it's a category 1 linkage (some are cat 0.5, which is silly) and possibly a drawbar, which is handy and a lot safer than a 3 point linkage one. As said, PTO shafts have adapters, so that's less of a problem.
Hydraulic couplings are very helpful indeed, and should be double acting really. (Push oil in both directions, so 2 sockets).
Personally I wouldn't bother with a belly mower as they take a bit more putting on and off and reduce clearance, and get a rear one instead.
Apart from the obvious I don't do small tractors much, bigger ones are much more fun! Although I have used a hydrostatic gearbox Kubota for scraping slurry. Very handy (probably good with a loader) but like the bigger brothers, very very expensive if they break!
Simple cheap machines are best if used infrequently. Cabs do make it much nicer, but can cause problems too.
If you get a smaller tractor, just make sure it's a category 1 linkage (some are cat 0.5, which is silly) and possibly a drawbar, which is handy and a lot safer than a 3 point linkage one. As said, PTO shafts have adapters, so that's less of a problem.
Hydraulic couplings are very helpful indeed, and should be double acting really. (Push oil in both directions, so 2 sockets).
Personally I wouldn't bother with a belly mower as they take a bit more putting on and off and reduce clearance, and get a rear one instead.
Apart from the obvious I don't do small tractors much, bigger ones are much more fun! Although I have used a hydrostatic gearbox Kubota for scraping slurry. Very handy (probably good with a loader) but like the bigger brothers, very very expensive if they break!
Simple cheap machines are best if used infrequently. Cabs do make it much nicer, but can cause problems too.
Agrispeed said:
Mf1200 you say? Possibly a little too big?
MF are a pig like that - their compact range often has the same series number as the larger ones.
This id what I meant:
They go from 15hp up 35 in Hydrostatic, then 40 to 60 in shuttle.
Thinking of that, there's also their Groundcare range, GC, which are all a bit tiny but can still be tricked up with loaders etc, but like the little Kubotas et al, they really can't lift and shift very much, but are handy for an expensive way of mowing the lawn. Still, they'll stand far more abuse than a Countax or the like.
Edited by RedLeicester on Friday 19th December 14:25
MF are a pig like that - their compact range often has the same series number as the larger ones.
This id what I meant:
They go from 15hp up 35 in Hydrostatic, then 40 to 60 in shuttle.
Thinking of that, there's also their Groundcare range, GC, which are all a bit tiny but can still be tricked up with loaders etc, but like the little Kubotas et al, they really can't lift and shift very much, but are handy for an expensive way of mowing the lawn. Still, they'll stand far more abuse than a Countax or the like.
Edited by RedLeicester on Friday 19th December 14:25
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That does actually look pretty handy. The smallest modern tractor I have driven was a Kubota GL something, I think it was about 50hp hydrostatic - very handy in tight yards, but it did feel a bit light and flimsy. I was looking at the ailing ride on mower yesterday wondering how much a 15hp tractor would be. You could put a small plough on and grow spuds in the lawn!
Out of interest how do you find turf tyres for grip?
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