Distance selling laws?

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irish boy

Original Poster:

3,523 posts

235 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
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Last week I was trying to buy a specific car (mini gp2), found one in a mini garage in London, 2500 miles, spoke to the sales man, made a reasonable offer, heard nothing. Rang back twice, eventually to be told they wouldn't sell it to me over the phone due to distance selling regs that would give me too many rights. I was prepared to leave £1000 by phone and travel on saturday but they point blank refused to take a deposit, yet wouldn't hold it till I could travel.

I've never had this happen before and am not sure how distance buying regs affect car sales, can anyone shed any light?



Ps bought one the next day off a lovely chap in Manchester in a no hassle sale.

boyse7en

6,671 posts

164 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
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If you make the purchase you have got 14 days "Cooling Off" period in which you can basically walk away from the deal and get a full refund.
As far as I know, it applies to anything bought over the phone/internet/post.

I have wondered whether I could buy, for instance, a nice shiny new BMW, keep it for a week's driving holiday and then reject it under DSR...

Butter Face

30,192 posts

159 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
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DSR wouldn't have applied if you'd gone there to collect it anyway.

irish boy

Original Poster:

3,523 posts

235 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
quotequote all
Butter Face said:
DSR wouldn't have applied if you'd gone there to collect it anyway.
I asked to be put thru to the sales manager to try explain this but he wouldn't speak to me. Very strange the whole thing.

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
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2500 miles from London, I'm not surprised the dealer didn't take you seriously.

irish boy

Original Poster:

3,523 posts

235 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
2500 miles from London, I'm not surprised the dealer didn't take you seriously.
Not sure if you've been to Northern Ireland before……...

irish boy

Original Poster:

3,523 posts

235 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
quotequote all
Butter Face said:
DSR wouldn't have applied if you'd gone there to collect it anyway.
Ps wouldn't have happened in Renault eh? Should have saved harder and got that trophy r but bottled it…...

Butter Face

30,192 posts

159 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
quotequote all
irish boy said:
Butter Face said:
DSR wouldn't have applied if you'd gone there to collect it anyway.
I asked to be put thru to the sales manager to try explain this but he wouldn't speak to me. Very strange the whole thing.
For the DSR to be enforceable the contract has to be completed by distance means. If you haven't completed any part of it by distance (I.e, they haven't agreed a price etc) but one could argue that taking a deposit could be part of a contract.

I personally would have take a deposit followed by an email confirming the deposit was purely to hold the car for viewing and that it did not indicate any part of a contract to sell you the car.

I imagine a good lawyer would still tear that apart of the buyer was determined! It's annoying but the law is biased in the buyers favour in this case. Dealer is just covering their arse, back and upper torso!!

jjr1

3,023 posts

259 months

Tuesday 16th December 2014
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irish boy said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
2500 miles from London, I'm not surprised the dealer didn't take you seriously.
Not sure if you've been to Northern Ireland before……...
Not sure if you even have the faintest knowledge of geography?

London to Port Rush is not even 1/5 of that?

Ginge R

4,761 posts

218 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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I thought DSR was also subordinated to Sales of Goods Act? So, the 14 days period wasn't etched in stone and you did in fact, get a bit longer?

Nimby

4,572 posts

149 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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Ginge R said:
I thought DSR was also subordinated to Sales of Goods Act? So, the 14 days period wasn't etched in stone and you did in fact, get a bit longer?
DSR no longer exist - it's been the Consumer Contracts Regulations since June.

JustinP1

13,330 posts

229 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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Butter Face said:
I personally would have take a deposit followed by an email confirming the deposit was purely to hold the car for viewing and that it did not indicate any part of a contract to sell you the car.

I imagine a good lawyer would still tear that apart of the buyer was determined! It's annoying but the law is biased in the buyers favour in this case. Dealer is just covering their arse, back and upper torso!!
This is exactly it.

Usually, if you take a deposit for a car, it means that the sale of the car has been agreed.

If they did this, and took a deposit, effectively the OP would have rights over the car. It would be breach of contract for the dealer to sell to anyone else. The OP could mess the dealer around, for weeks, or months, and there's little the dealer could do.

Because, for whatever reason, the OP could turn up at the dealer, or even just fire off an email, and under the Regs the contract is essentially voided and the OP is due his deposit back no questions asked.

(There's a slight side issue on whether it would be an organised sale, but they want to play it safe and avoid going to court no doubt.)

The whole point of a deposit is the show of good faith by the buyer, and commitment prior to full payment. However, if the seller has no legal right to retain that deposit due to breach of contract, then taking a deposit is totally pointless.

That'll be why they didn't do it.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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Butter Face said:
DSR wouldn't have applied if you'd gone there to collect it anyway.
This is incorrect, as is almost everything posted about the law so far posted on this thread.

One poster has correctly pointed out that the DSR no longer apply. They were replaced by The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 with effect from 13 June 2014. There is a 21 day (EDIT - sorry, I was insane when I wrote that, it's 14 days) period during which a distance sale may be cancelled. In the case of a contract to buy a car that period does not start until the car is collected or delivered.

For the poster who appeared to think that agreeing a deposit isn't making a contract, what else could it be? Any attempt to evade the regulations by suggesting that there are not one but two contracts (one re the deposit and one re the purchase) would fail, as in any event the agreement to pay a deposit would itself be cancellable.

The Sale of Goods Act does not bear on this issue. The poster who referred to that Act may be confusing the question of the right to cancel with the question of the right to terminate a contract because the goods sold are defective. Cancellation rights in relation to distance sales do not depend on the quality of the goods.

It may be that the law has now gone too far towards the buyer, but it is aimed at least partly at remedying abuses by some sellers.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 18th December 14:05

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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Breadvan72 said:
One poster has correctly pointed out that the DSR no longer apply. They were replaced by The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 with effect from 13 June 2014. There is a 21 day period during which a distance sale may be cancelled. In the case of a contract to buy a car that period does not start until the car is collected or delivered.
Are you sure?

I thought that if the goods were inspected prior to the contract being completed the cancellation period no longer applies.

So paying a deposit at a distance and then the balance upon collection would not invoke the cancellation period.

Butter Face

30,192 posts

159 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
Butter Face said:
DSR wouldn't have applied if you'd gone there to collect it anyway.
This is incorrect, as is almost everything posted about the law so far posted on this thread.

One poster has correctly pointed out that the DSR no longer apply. They were replaced by The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 with effect from 13 June 2014. There is a 21 day period during which a distance sale may be cancelled. In the case of a contract to buy a car that period does not start until the car is collected or delivered.

For the poster who appeared to think that agreeing a deposit isn't making a contract, what else could it be? Any attempt to evade the regulations by suggesting that there are not one but two contracts (one re the deposit and one re the purchase) would fail, as in any event the agreement to pay a deposit would itself be cancellable.

The Sale of Goods Act does not bear on this issue. The poster who referred to that Act may be confusing the question of the right to cancel with the question of the right to terminate a contract because the goods sold are defective. Cancellation rights in relation to distance sales do not depend on the quality of the goods.

It may be that the law has now gone too far towards the buyer, but it is aimed at least partly at remedying abuses by some sellers.
Cheers for clearing it up BV!

markmullen

15,877 posts

233 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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DSRs became a messers charter and so many dealers have, quite reasonably, decided distance contracts are more hassle than they're worth and stopped doing them.

HTP99

22,443 posts

139 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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Interesting, as we are having similar converstions about distance selling and car sales, over on the "other side".

It appears that many garages will be stopping distance selling, or at least trying to implement procedures so that any type of distance selling regulations don't become applicable.

allergictocheese

1,290 posts

112 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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Remember that the 14 days begins the day you received the items rather than when you ordered them (I know BV mentioned 21 days, although the 2013 regs still seem to say 14. I'm sure he'll point me in the right direction if I've misread somewhere).

If they're of unsatisfactory quality then SOGA should apply in any case.

balls-out

3,586 posts

230 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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lm1985 said:
Interesting.

I am trying to return a knackered item to a distance seller, 2 days outside her stated 14 day policy (due to a hospital stay on my part) - is her 14 day policy trumped by the 3 weeks quoted for DSR, and because the item doesn't work properly, do I still have rights which go above and beyond DSR, under SOGA?
As I understand it, if you missed the 14 days (from receipt), then you are back to relying on the item being not of "satisfactory quality" or not "fit for purpose" under SOGA.

silentbrown

8,793 posts

115 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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Breadvan72 said:
For the poster who appeared to think that agreeing a deposit isn't making a contract, what else could it be? Any attempt to evade the regulations by suggesting that there are not one but two contracts (one re the deposit and one re the purchase) would fail, as in any event the agreement to pay a deposit would itself be cancellable.
If you just pay a deposit via the phone, then arrive and conclude the transaction in person, is it still a "a contract concluded between a trader and a consumer under an organised distance sales or service-provision scheme without the simultaneous physical presence of the trader and the consumer, with the exclusive use of one or more means of distance communication up to and including the time at which the contract is concluded;
"?

I thought contract isn't concluded until you sign the paperwork and hand over the money, which you're doing in person?

As an aside, on a recent car purchase from a main dealer, we agreed a deposit over the 'phone and I gave my card details. When we picked it up the car they hadn't bothered to debit the card, so we paid the full amount. Just wondering in hindsight if this was an attempt to sidestep the distance contract regulations?

Edited by silentbrown on Thursday 18th December 00:10