UK General Election 2015

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Discussion

thinkofaname

280 posts

132 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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I mean no disrespect to John Smith, but in what sense did he "know his economics"? He was a lawyer, not an economist. We don't seem to get many economists in the upper reaches of government, actually, unless you count the 'E' in 'PPE'.

zygalski

7,759 posts

144 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
thinkofaname said:
I mean no disrespect to John Smith, but in what sense did he "know his economics"? He was a lawyer, not an economist. We don't seem to get many economists in the upper reaches of government, actually, unless you count the 'E' in 'PPE'.
In the sense that he used to make mincemeat out of anyone who dared to argue economics with him. Look at some old interviews or footage from the HoC. Impressive to say the least.

Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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GoneAnon said:
I thought banks were only going to move away if Scotland had voted YES. Wasn't that what we were told? (Told a lot!)
Nothing to do with the EU per say and more to do with the banking levy etc.

Millipead already said he wants to put it up, hsbc already paying ~700m, they're saying enough is enough.

If they move even just the hq, we loose some 2-3bn a year in tax revenues.


Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
Nothing to do with the EU per say and more to do with the banking levy etc.

Millipead already said he wants to put it up, hsbc already paying ~700m, they're saying enough is enough.

If they move even just the hq, we loose some 2-3bn a year in tax revenues.
last years levy was 0.156% this year is 0.21% - last year it earned UK HMRC £750m from HSBC this year if it mirrored last year would generate £1billion in additional taxes for HMRC.


Now Labour have a fully costed policy to drastically increase this levy to pay for badly needed public services. This could DOUBLE what HSBC pay now if not more....
Labour started the Bank Levy and its continued ever since.


When will people stop bashing bankers? That's all we hear about in Question time fking bankers bonus all the time not that actually most people over extended themselves loads of personal debt for stuff they wanted they choose that lifestyle.

Lose the Bank well big problem huge problem as its all the child benefit which was cut previously to find again

Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
exactly...

Abbey, Barclays, Clydesdale, HSBC, Nationwide, and Standard Chartered never took any government money (bail out), why should they be penalised?

Politics of pandering to the plebs again.

NicD

3,281 posts

256 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
exactly...

Abbey, Barclays, Clydesdale, HSBC, Nationwide, and Standard Chartered never took any government money (bail out), why should they be penalised?

Politics of pandering to the plebs again.
They have all benefitted enormously from virtually zero borowing rates and a government guarantee on deposits.
I am not necessarily in agreement with the levy, but don't characterise these banks as neutral.

Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
NicD said:
They have all benefitted enormously from virtually zero borowing rates and a government guarantee on deposits.
I am not necessarily in agreement with the levy, but don't characterise these banks as neutral.
so what?

they did not create the climate, the government did.

if the government then chooses to change their landscape again (ie, tax them for no good reason than playing politics) don't be surprised when they fk off.

it's exactly the same deal with the NON-Doms bullst, they abolish that, just watch the real billionaires leave with their money, that will show them!

greygoose

8,224 posts

194 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
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BlackLabel said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
P5Nij said:
I don't understand why the Tories aren't hovering over Miliband getting stuck in with both size nines, maybe they're waiting for something catasprophic to happen to the Labour campaign so they won't have to, but I wish they'd just get on with it and kick the opposition into touch. They have a golden opportunity to make Labour unelectable for yet they seem to be holding back. The most important thing in this election is to keep Labour out.
I keep thinking that they are biding their time and at some point they will hit him so hard that he has no time to recover.
I think they got spooked by the reaction to the 'he stabbed his brother in the back' comment. That didn't go down well at all and since then they've been quite placid. Miliband has also done better than expected as his personal approval polls show. The Tories probably thought that all the extra exposure would go against Miliband - give him enough rope and all that - but that hasn't happened either. Granted he hasn't set the world on fire but it hasn't been the car crash we all expected.

To be honest, the Tory campaign has been poor. It's lacking direction and intensity.
Negative campaigning isn't a very British thing to be honest, the disinterest in politics at the moment is because no one has a very inspiring message. For all their faults Blair and Mandelson knew how to sell a positive message (things can only get better etc) and people got behind that.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
NicD said:
They have all benefitted enormously from virtually zero borowing rates and a government guarantee on deposits.
I am not necessarily in agreement with the levy, but don't characterise these banks as neutral.
That's illogical you should only punish the banks which broke the rules via fines and then levy but those needing the levy are part state owned so we're paying for it anyway.



Axionknight

8,505 posts

134 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
NicD said:
They have all benefitted enormously from virtually zero borowing rates and a government guarantee on deposits.
I am not necessarily in agreement with the levy, but don't characterise these banks as neutral.
So has any mortgage holder, including myself - if they've had the sense to overpay their mortgage.

NicD

3,281 posts

256 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
NicD said:
They have all benefitted enormously from virtually zero borowing rates and a government guarantee on deposits.
I am not necessarily in agreement with the levy, but don't characterise these banks as neutral.
That's illogical you should only punish the banks which broke the rules via fines and then levy but those needing the levy are part state owned so we're paying for it anyway.
Did you not understand what I wrote?

pingu393

7,718 posts

204 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12391532
BBC explain banking levy said:
British banks face a bigger burden than foreign banks that do business in the UK, because the British banks must pay the levy on all their borrowing worldwide, and not just on their borrowing in the UK.
Without investigating other countries tax laws, it looks like...

HSBC could move their HQ to another country, continue doing business in UK, and save a small fortune as they would only have to pay the tax on UK business. Any levy they paid abroad would go into an insurance fund.

I can't understand why they haven't done it already.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
NicD said:
Welshbeef said:
NicD said:
They have all benefitted enormously from virtually zero borowing rates and a government guarantee on deposits.
I am not necessarily in agreement with the levy, but don't characterise these banks as neutral.
That's illogical you should only punish the banks which broke the rules via fines and then levy but those needing the levy are part state owned so we're paying for it anyway.
Did you not understand what I wrote?
Yes I did what has that got to do with anything they are prevailing global conditions -- should all mortgage payers take a levy hit /additional premium charge as they can borrow money at lower rates?

Should the govt put extra duty on fuel prices due to the prevailing advantageous

NicD

3,281 posts

256 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
If true, they must be the only multi-national that hasn't gamed the foreign domicile rules.

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
NicD said:
They have all benefitted enormously from virtually zero borowing rates and a government guarantee on deposits.
I am not necessarily in agreement with the levy, but don't characterise these banks as neutral.
How so? How many of them have called on the Govt guarantee? And don't they make money from lending? The higher te borrowing rate, the more scope for making money.

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
Zod said:
IainT said:
Greg66 said:
Con/LD coalition running a minority Govt, and being shoved from pillar to post by Lab and the SNP acting together. Also the most likely route (because it is inherently unstable) to a second GE later this year.
If it were clear tot eh general public that the issues were Labour's inability to function as opposition without SNP would that play to a swing to Tory majority?
I think so and hope so.
I was thinking a bit more about this. The key to it is the English - and specifically Labour and perhaps UKIP English voters - deciding they'd rather have the Cons than the SNP running things.

The real die hard English Labour voters probably won't be too upset to see the SNP's hand in the Government as it will be pushing left wing policies that that demographic will be happy with.

The key is the more moderate centrist English Labour voter and the English UKIP voter. It is them who have to be persuaded that the SNP is unacceptably far left, or too Scottish, or something, and then to vote Con.

The system we have allows Scotland, with 1/13 of the vote, to control Wstminster if the two major parties are even. It needs the English as a whole to gang together to combat that - assuming that they want to.

Snozzwangler

12,230 posts

193 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
Greg66 said:
NicD said:
They have all benefitted enormously from virtually zero borowing rates and a government guarantee on deposits.
I am not necessarily in agreement with the levy, but don't characterise these banks as neutral.
How so? How many of them have called on the Govt guarantee? And don't they make money from lending? The higher te borrowing rate, the more scope for making money.
Yup.

Struggling to see how the unassisted banks called upon the guarantee.

Hmmmm

jogon

2,971 posts

157 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all


hehe

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
Snozzwangler said:
Yup.

Struggling to see how the unassisted banks called upon the guarantee.

Hmmmm
Instead they have seen

Drastically more regulation
Demanded to hold much higher cash
Required to split out investment banking from ongoing operations of traditional banks
The Bank Levy a charge to pay back the govt and country partly for the economic crash
Interest rates very low so their margins are reduced
Forced to sign up to a remuneration policy which instead of having a lower fixed part and then far higher possible bonus/commission set up to having far higher fixed cost so rewarding when performance /commission doesn't exist
Tarnished by the same brush as those who played fast and loose
Vilified generally in the UK when they have needed nothing


Barclays too - they opted for Saudi investment money instead so took no UK Govt money - have since paid that back in full and are doing very well.

Banks which fked up
1. RBS which was encouraged to buy ABM Amro with Alex Salmonds backing to push it through
2. lloyds who were forced to buy HBOS by our PM G Brown when they were totally solvent before hand and were given no time for due diligence apart from make this happen..
3. Northern Rock lent money to anyone 125%+ mortgages
4. Bradford and Bingley same as N Rock.

So why pray tell are the rest being vilified?
The ones who had bail outs have either paid back in full plus a bit more and others are paying down the remaining debt with no sign that they will not fulfill this requirement.
In addition the mortgagebook of the banks which are classed as bad debts are turning out to not be bad at all and returning the govt a decent margin. These will take up to 25 years to clear or might be sold off at some point in the future to finally remove any ties to the banks.


It's labour who lkeep bashing the bankers and the bankers bonus sticks well those people cannot get that rich not fair we want that too even though some only have the ability to sweep roads...

johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

163 months

Saturday 25th April 2015
quotequote all
jogon said:


hehe
what are you sorry about ?....lick