Centre Gravity + Cayman R

[Sarnie]

So, read a lot of stuff about getting the Geo set up correctly and these guys are down the road from me;

http://www.centregravity.co.uk/

So, as a complete Porsche noob, what can they do that'll be of benefit to me? I don't track the car but obviously want it to be set up to be the best it can be!

Any advice appreciated!

[mrdemon]

I use Chris, he spent 11 hours on my car a few months ago we did not leave till 8pm

He goes the extra mile and enjoys what he does.

But just for your needs you could drop it in Porsche lei or northamton Motorsport and just add a bit of front camber and reduce the front toe a bit, keep the rear stock, and add some front 7mm spacers each side.

Imo you are better off just buying some PSS.

[Sarnie]

mrdemon said:

I use Chris, he spent 11 hours on my car a few months ago we did not leave till 8pm

He goes the extra mile and enjoys what he does.

But just for your needs you could drop it in Porsche lei or northamton Motorsport and just add a bit of front camber and reduce the front toe a bit, keep the rear stock, and add some front 7mm spacers each side.

Imo you are better off just buying some PSS.

So unless you are tracking the car, what they offer is overkill?

Just had the new tyres fitted to the rear today, gonna get a few bits of kerbing sorted soon too, assumed it would be best to ensure after the wheels had been on and off, that they were at least all pointing in the right direction, to prevent uneven tyre wear etc....

[mrdemon]

Over kill yes as it's £300min charge for a basic geo.

[Cerberaherts]

mrdemon said:

Over kill yes as it's £300min charge for a basic geo.

Wow. That's quite some price!

[Wozy68]

mrdemon said:

I use Chris, he spent 11 hours on my car a few months ago we did not leave till 8pm

He goes the extra mile and enjoys what he does.

But just for your needs you could drop it in Porsche lei or northamton Motorsport and just add a bit of front camber and reduce the front toe a bit, keep the rear stock, and add some front 7mm spacers each side.

Imo you are better off just buying some PSS.

Blimey, you would imagine after all these years he would have been able to reduce the hours it' takes

[Sandy59]

Cerberaherts said:

mrdemon said:

Over kill yes as it's £300min charge for a basic geo.

Wow. That's quite some price!

I'd say it's a bit more than a basic geo for your money.
It includes :

1. Test drive of car in arrival set up, identify any suspect dampers etc.
2. Comprehensive inspection of tyres and all suspension components.
3. Comprehensive discussion and explanations of different set up options available to produce different handling characteristics.
4. Adjustments made as required - provided all components in good condition etc.
5. Test drive with new set up.
6. Further adjustments and test drives if required until customer happy.

This is not for everybody, and as has been said any decent place should be able to carry out a basic geo for less.
I've had various cars done at CG for road use, and found the adjustments done and whole experience well worth the money for me.

[bcr5784]

mrdemon said:

I use Chris, he spent 11 hours on my car a few months ago we did not leave till 8pm

He goes the extra mile and enjoys what he does.

But just for your needs you could drop it in Porsche lei or northamton Motorsport and just add a bit of front camber and reduce the front toe a bit, keep the rear stock, and add some front 7mm spacers each side.

Imo you are better off just buying some PSS.

MrDemon is fixated with understeer - and yes road cars are generally set up with a bit of (safe) understeer. Before going down the route he suggests you need to be sure that your car has more understeer than YOU like with whatever wheels/tyres/suspension options your car has. The one size fits all approach he recommends is - to say the least - unscientific.

[mollytherocker]

Sarnie said:

?.......want it to be set up to be the best it can be......

I think before you go any further, you need to understand and clarify what you mean by this.

Every adjustment is a compromise between multiple things. You can increase toe in a little to sharpen the steering for example but you will make the car more nervous in a straight line. And increase tyre wear.

[Slippydiff]

Sarnie said:

So, read a lot of stuff about getting the Geo set up correctly and these guys are down the road from me;

http://www.centregravity.co.uk/

So, as a complete Porsche noob, what can they do that'll be of benefit to me? I don't track the car but obviously want it to be set up to be the best it can be!

Any advice appreciated!

Here's my advice. Ignore the likes of Mr Demon, he's fickle. He's been on here extolling the virtues of other alignment shops and telling everyone on here that a a geo can be done in 20 minutes for thruppence ha'ppeny. Now he tells us he's spent 11 hours with Chris setting up his car ...... ! !

The PH search facility is working currently (a rare occurrence in my experience) do a search for Center Gravity (or Centre Gravity) read what a larger cross section have gained from their experiences at CG, then form your own decision as to whether you think having your car set up by Chris is a worthwhile expense.

I maintain it is, as without wishing to sound patronising, you give the impression you're a novice in these matters. No harm in that, we all have to start somewhere. A day spent with Chris will give you a great insight into how suspension set up influences the way your car handles, rides, grips (or doesn't grip !) steers etc.

There are plenty of good alignment shops out there, but Chris does go the extra mile, his attention to detail when it comes to set up is up there with the very best. He'll also be willing to spend time chatting to you and explain to you why he's adjusting the various parameters, and what the outcome of those set up adjustments will be.

The other benefit of taking the car to Chris is that he'll fully assess the condition of the car's suspension fully, but he won't carry out any adjustments unless it's in tip top condition.

If you have the car set up to factory specifications, you'll leave CG with a car set up as the factory intended, not "close enough". Rest assured you will notice the difference.
Having had the car set up properly you'll have a baseline setup, you can drive it for a few months and see if you start to find it's limits (the fabled understeer that Demon bangs on about incessantly.....)

You may then decide you want to tweak things a bit, or you may decide the stock settings suit your needs fine.

At this stage, you do NOT want to be asking Chris to put a "fast road" set up on the car, neither do you need to start bolting spacers on, or swapping tyres for something grippier or "better".

HTH

[Trev450]

mollytherocker said:

You can increase toe in a little to sharpen the steering for example but you will make the car more nervous in a straight line. And increase tyre wear.

Don't you mean reduce toe-in?

[bcr5784]

mollytherocker said:

I think before you go any further, you need to understand and clarify what you mean by this.

Every adjustment is a compromise between multiple things. You can increase toe in a little to sharpen the steering for example but you will make the car more nervous in a straight line. And increase tyre wear.

Exactly - and it depends on what you intend to do with the car. A car set up to work well on the track (which will generally be smooth) can be a real (unpleasant) handful on a bumpy rutted B road - and might not be comfortable at high speeds on the motorway either.

[FrankCayman]

Slippydiff said:

Here's my advice. Ignore the likes of Mr Demon, he's fickle. He's been on here extolling the virtues of other alignment shops and telling everyone on here that a a geo can be done in 20 minutes for thruppence ha'ppeny. Now he tells us he's spent 11 hours with Chris setting up his car ...... ! !

The PH search facility is working currently (a rare occurrence in my experience) do a search for Center Gravity (or Centre Gravity) read what a larger cross section have gained from their experiences at CG, then form your own decision as to whether you think having your car set up by Chris is a worthwhile expense.

I maintain it is, as without wishing to sound patronising, you give the impression you're a novice in these matters. No harm in that, we all have to start somewhere. A day spent with Chris will give you a great insight into how suspension set up influences the way your car handles, rides, grips (or doesn't grip !) steers etc.

There are plenty of good alignment shops out there, but Chris does go the extra mile, his attention to detail when it comes to set up is up there with the very best. He'll also be willing to spend time chatting to you and explain to you why he's adjusting the various parameters, and what the outcome of those set up adjustments will be.

The other benefit of taking the car to Chris is that he'll fully assess the condition of the car's suspension fully, but he won't carry out any adjustments unless it's in tip top condition.

If you have the car set up to factory specifications, you'll leave CG with a car set up as the factory intended, not "close enough". Rest assured you will notice the difference.
Having had the car set up properly you'll have a baseline setup, you can drive it for a few months and see if you start to find it's limits (the fabled understeer that Demon bangs on about incessantly.....)

You may then decide you want to tweak things a bit, or you may decide the stock settings suit your needs fine.

At this stage, you do NOT want to be asking Chris to put a "fast road" set up on the car, neither do you need to start bolting spacers on, or swapping tyres for something grippier or "better".

HTH

Good advice.

[mrdemon]

not really lol
as you cannot set a stock parted car up for good track work, why spend £300 to get an extra 0.5 degree of camber up front ?

any good shop can check your geo and add 1/2 a degree for about £100.

Front track helps, the 981 has a bigger front track the GT3 has a bigger front track again and the 991 RS has a massive front track over the GT3.

So if you are going to get the front changed you may as wel fit 2 £25 spacers up front, it does make the car loads better.

Slippy after a month off, has gone back to following me about slagging me off again this last week. (again noted past midnight on other threads so prob drugged up)

I use other shops for basic checks even Porsche OPC, but as I was changing arms ,engine mounts etc and wanted to get the most from my car I went to see chris.

to say get a stock one for £300 try it then go back and tweek it for another £300 would be stupid, If one has bought a Cayman R one expects the owner will want it to work in a more focused way.

Edited by mrdemon on Saturday 20th December 11:05

[Cerberaherts]

Sandy59 said:

I'd say it's a bit more than a basic geo for your money.
It includes :

1. Test drive of car in arrival set up, identify any suspect dampers etc.
2. Comprehensive inspection of tyres and all suspension components.
3. Comprehensive discussion and explanations of different set up options available to produce different handling characteristics.
4. Adjustments made as required - provided all components in good condition etc.
5. Test drive with new set up.
6. Further adjustments and test drives if required until customer happy.

This is not for everybody, and as has been said any decent place should be able to carry out a basic geo for less.
I've had various cars done at CG for road use, and found the adjustments done and whole experience well worth the money for me.

It's a hefty price but I guess You get what you pay for. It seems you're not just getting a basic geo here. Might have to get my Cerbera up there once it's new suspension goes on..

[ChrisW.]

Centre of Gravity have a great reputation.

Other companies can also do a very good job --- I use Track Torque in Tockwith (North Yorkshire).

It is correct that you will struggle to get more than -.75 on the front and -2 on the rear for a very nice fast road set-up which works very well with MPSupersports, particularly in the wet. All else stock.

More than that requires significant surgery --- which is where the GT4 should come in.

To put this in perspective in terms of driving style, I replace all four tyres at once.

But I remember once discovering that damaged suspension had been dialled out on a previous geo set-up --- which was very well worth correcting on a comprehensive check and geo set-up ...

[Slippydiff]

Sarnie said:

I don't track the car but obviously want it to be set up to be the best it can be!

mrdemon said:

as you cannot set a stock parted car up for good track work, why spend £300 to get an extra 0.5 degree of camber up front ?

Which bit of Sarnie's quote is it you're struggling with ?

mrdemon said:

Front track helps, the 981 has a bigger front track the GT3 has a bigger front track again and the 991 RS has a massive front track over the GT3.

I don't doubt it, but I think you'll find the factory GT3 RS wide track set up amounts to more than chucking a pair of spacers on the front.

mrdemon said:

So if you are going to get the front changed you may as wel fit 2 £25 spacers up front, it does make the car loads better.

Ah yes, loads better. Not in the least bit subjective, as ever.

mrdemon said:

Slippy after a month off, has gone back to following me about slagging me off again this last week. (again noted past midnight on other threads so prob drugged up)

LOL. No one does drugs before midnight in "your" world then ?

mrdemon said:

I use other shops for basic checks even Porsche OPC, but as I was changing arms ,engine mounts etc and wanted to get the most from my car I went to see chris.

So previously you haven't wanted to get the best from your car ? Hmmm, interesting.

mrdemon said:

to say get a stock one for £300 try it then go back and tweek it for another £300 would be stupid, If one has bought a Cayman R one expects the owner will want it to work in a more focused way.

Yep, so stupid that plenty of people do exactly that. As ever, you speak on behalf of everyone on the basis they've the same mindset as you. They don't. Fortunately.

[Steve Rance]

mrdemon said:

not really lol
as you cannot set a stock parted car up for good track work, why spend £300 to get an extra 0.5 degree of camber up front ?

any good shop can check your geo and add 1/2 a degree for about £100.

Front track helps, the 981 has a bigger front track the GT3 has a bigger front track again and the 991 RS has a massive front track over the GT3.

So if you are going to get the front changed you may as wel fit 2 £25 spacers up front, it does make the car loads better.

Slippy after a month off, has gone back to following me about slagging me off again this last week. (again noted past midnight on other threads so prob drugged up)

I use other shops for basic checks even Porsche OPC, but as I was changing arms ,engine mounts etc and wanted to get the most from my car I went to see chris.

to say get a stock one for £300 try it then go back and tweek it for another £300 would be stupid, If one has bought a Cayman R one expects the owner will want it to work in a more focused way.

Edited by mrdemon on Saturday 20th December 11:05

Generally, a wider front track is a very clumsy way of attempting to reduce understeer. With the GT3 it is only done to counter the pasm. If it were on passives, it wouldn't need a wider front end but thats another story. A more effective way to counter it would be to fit some after market top mounts which will unlock the car's potential far more than messing about with the track which can lead to other problems.

[Steve Rance]

On saying that, I think that your point about not necessarily needing a high end geo on a road only car has some merit

[PR36]

I would say read up on what you want to achieve first, there are lots of posts on planet 9 where guys give various geo settings for your model. Then have a local Indy do it. I spoke to cg about my cayman s ( I have pss9 and h and r arb) and I've no doubt they know there stuff, but there prices including all the time for 'discussion' and 'test drives' ended up in a truly eye watering quote. Not for me!