Trouble starting
Discussion
I'm having serious difficulty starting the Tuscan after I replaced the finger followers and cams. Everything appears to be ok as it turns over but it just won't fire up. I've attached the diagnostics to the ecu and I'm getting no fault codes. One strange thing is that one of the Lamda sensors was unplugged and it didn't flag that as a fault.....
I've also started to get a rapid clicking sound from the engine. At first I was concerned that a valve was sticking but I've had the cam cover off and it's happening faster than the engine is turning over so it can't be that.
Any ideas?
I've also started to get a rapid clicking sound from the engine. At first I was concerned that a valve was sticking but I've had the cam cover off and it's happening faster than the engine is turning over so it can't be that.
Any ideas?
Ummhhh,
Got compression? If you don't have a gauge to check does it "puff" out of the plug holes? If so you should get a kick or something as wildly out of time it would not fire
Got spark and fuel, guessing though that as you have changed cams and followers you would have checked this already.
The clicking noise is interesting, you have had the head off I assume and/or engine out as to change the follower shaft requires this, if head off do you have some mechanical contact? If not is the chain tension correct on the lower chain? Sure your timing is correct?
Need more info really to help suggest, hope you get sorted though.
The lambda wont register as fault until running and it will be an EFI fault not coded, if memory correct, and the other lambda's output will be duplicated.
Leave the cam cover off until she fires up, you want to see it oil up, although they will do this as you key over, and if you have a tappy follower you can find it easier with the cover off, don't get bits of you caught up in there though!
J
Got compression? If you don't have a gauge to check does it "puff" out of the plug holes? If so you should get a kick or something as wildly out of time it would not fire
Got spark and fuel, guessing though that as you have changed cams and followers you would have checked this already.
The clicking noise is interesting, you have had the head off I assume and/or engine out as to change the follower shaft requires this, if head off do you have some mechanical contact? If not is the chain tension correct on the lower chain? Sure your timing is correct?
Need more info really to help suggest, hope you get sorted though.
The lambda wont register as fault until running and it will be an EFI fault not coded, if memory correct, and the other lambda's output will be duplicated.
Leave the cam cover off until she fires up, you want to see it oil up, although they will do this as you key over, and if you have a tappy follower you can find it easier with the cover off, don't get bits of you caught up in there though!
J
Hi J,
Yep, got good compression although I noticed it is slightly down on cylinders 2 and 3. I was really worried that I'd balls up the timing but it doesn't make the clicking noise every time.
So I've just taken the spark plugs out and held them against the engine whilst turning it over and there is no spark at the plugs.Checked the fuse and it's fine. Does anyone know what the wires to coil pack should output? Otherwise, I assume the coil pack has died. Although, I would like to check the loom out before buying a new coil pack.
Yep, got good compression although I noticed it is slightly down on cylinders 2 and 3. I was really worried that I'd balls up the timing but it doesn't make the clicking noise every time.
So I've just taken the spark plugs out and held them against the engine whilst turning it over and there is no spark at the plugs.Checked the fuse and it's fine. Does anyone know what the wires to coil pack should output? Otherwise, I assume the coil pack has died. Although, I would like to check the loom out before buying a new coil pack.
No spark...
Have you had the engine out? Guess a yes, so loom connection problem maybe? Poor earth? I have two big earths on mine, chassis to lump n chassis to box and two pick up points on the chassis from the battery just for good measure. Have you checked crank sensor, plugged in, gap correct?? Sorry if you have already but I've done some daft things before only for someone to say "have you...?" and ooopps that's the one.
Bit odd for a coil pack to fail as I guess running before and now nothing after a break, me thinks the heat gets to them and they have a slow death but that's another thread no doubt.
Any EFI or ECU faults??
You're not far away from me but sadly 'er in doors has me tasked up else I'd buzz over and test your tea making in return for a raft of ideas.
Good luck and keep me posted
J
Have you had the engine out? Guess a yes, so loom connection problem maybe? Poor earth? I have two big earths on mine, chassis to lump n chassis to box and two pick up points on the chassis from the battery just for good measure. Have you checked crank sensor, plugged in, gap correct?? Sorry if you have already but I've done some daft things before only for someone to say "have you...?" and ooopps that's the one.
Bit odd for a coil pack to fail as I guess running before and now nothing after a break, me thinks the heat gets to them and they have a slow death but that's another thread no doubt.
Any EFI or ECU faults??
You're not far away from me but sadly 'er in doors has me tasked up else I'd buzz over and test your tea making in return for a raft of ideas.
Good luck and keep me posted
J
Like John mentioned, if I had no spark and the car ran before my main focus would be the crank position sensor and the earth ring close to that point on the loom.
When I took my engine out and went to remove the crank position sensor it basically fell apart so they would appear to be fairly fragile. You'll also want to make sure that the earth ring on the loom towards the rear of the engine is well seated.
When I took my engine out and went to remove the crank position sensor it basically fell apart so they would appear to be fairly fragile. You'll also want to make sure that the earth ring on the loom towards the rear of the engine is well seated.
Thanks all. I did have the engine out and it has been out for a long time. I initially got it started but it sounded awful and wouldn't run properly and now it just won't start at all.
So I removed the wiring earth from the bellhousing and ran a wire direct to the chassis and used a pair of jump start cables to run an earth from the battery to the chassis and engine and it made no difference. Since, putting the engine back in I've already had to replace the immobiliser and the dalis key receptacle.
The dash has shown a few diagnostic codes mainly e and o. When I plugged the ecu software in everything seems normal.
I'm going check the crank sensor and if that's ok it's got to be the coil pack hasn't it?
So I removed the wiring earth from the bellhousing and ran a wire direct to the chassis and used a pair of jump start cables to run an earth from the battery to the chassis and engine and it made no difference. Since, putting the engine back in I've already had to replace the immobiliser and the dalis key receptacle.
The dash has shown a few diagnostic codes mainly e and o. When I plugged the ecu software in everything seems normal.
I'm going check the crank sensor and if that's ok it's got to be the coil pack hasn't it?
Can someone confirm that Pin 4 on the Coil pack connector should actually go to Fuse 17 on the fuseboard?
I think that's what the Orange Bible is telling me.....
So it goes pin 4(red wire)coil pack -> ee on Bulkhead mil connector -> Fuse 17
If that's correct then it's not the coil pack and I've got a fuseboard problem as I have continuity between ee and pin 4.
I think that's what the Orange Bible is telling me.....
So it goes pin 4(red wire)coil pack -> ee on Bulkhead mil connector -> Fuse 17
If that's correct then it's not the coil pack and I've got a fuseboard problem as I have continuity between ee and pin 4.
Ignore the orange book for the Tuscan Fuse board. From memory some fuses are in a different location, MyTuscan.co.uk or this will be more accurate http://hamel-eng.co.uk/TVR/Tuscan-wiring.pdf
The lambdas can not be the cause for not starting. You can disconnect both and the engine will Start (the ECU will handle that).
Regarding the coils/ignition, why not just disconnect the connector of the spark plug and hold it close (1-2mm) to the engine ? Start the engine and a spark should jump from the connector to the engine (ground).
Check with all plugs, if only one is missing its probably the coil (but the engine should start), if all are missing you have no 12v on the coil (or no ECU connection)
Regarding the coils/ignition, why not just disconnect the connector of the spark plug and hold it close (1-2mm) to the engine ? Start the engine and a spark should jump from the connector to the engine (ground).
Check with all plugs, if only one is missing its probably the coil (but the engine should start), if all are missing you have no 12v on the coil (or no ECU connection)
I think no spark has been proved further up the thread
Are you sure the crank sensor is fully pushed down past the o ring..if you have managed to get the retaining screw in then I guess yes
Not much else will stop the spark. Ecu...wiring...coil pack
I have a spare pack if you want to borrow one...known good
Is the bulkhead connector properly mated...can you try some switch cleaner on the pins
Are you sure the crank sensor is fully pushed down past the o ring..if you have managed to get the retaining screw in then I guess yes
Not much else will stop the spark. Ecu...wiring...coil pack
I have a spare pack if you want to borrow one...known good
Is the bulkhead connector properly mated...can you try some switch cleaner on the pins
Just thought I'd post an update after I finally got around to fixing the Tuscan, it was the crank sensor gap not being large enough. I placed a thicker washer under the crank sensor and now it fires up ok. Thanks for all advice and offers of help.
Now I've just got to get to the bottom of all the rest of the electrical gremlins....
Now I've just got to get to the bottom of all the rest of the electrical gremlins....
Gassing Station | Tuscan | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff