Insulating frame work against old stone wall - best route
Discussion
Hey folks, we have just got a new to us house, a solid project! Built Circa 1880 but reworked late 1990s
We are starting with the bedroom, as we need to move in sooner rather than later.
The walls are very thick sandstone, with later stud work internally forming new walls using 50mm square uprights and 9mm maybe thinner plasterboard.
We are coming from a very damp house and in the new house I was very happy to feel very good air circulation between the frame work and the old walls from air bricks which I want to maintain! However there is a total lack of insulation.
My plan is:
1 to strip all the plasterboard
2 add some horizontal dwangs / studs for strength to current framework
3 insulate between studs etc with kingspan
4 fit a vapour barrier
5 fit new plasterboard 12.5 mm
not quiet sure what thickness of kingspan to go for, is 30mm sufficient?
is kingspan the best material?
whats best to use as the vapour barrier?
any help would be much appreciated!
We removed a bad built in cupboard which exposed one wall as seen.............
We are starting with the bedroom, as we need to move in sooner rather than later.
The walls are very thick sandstone, with later stud work internally forming new walls using 50mm square uprights and 9mm maybe thinner plasterboard.
We are coming from a very damp house and in the new house I was very happy to feel very good air circulation between the frame work and the old walls from air bricks which I want to maintain! However there is a total lack of insulation.
My plan is:
1 to strip all the plasterboard
2 add some horizontal dwangs / studs for strength to current framework
3 insulate between studs etc with kingspan
4 fit a vapour barrier
5 fit new plasterboard 12.5 mm
not quiet sure what thickness of kingspan to go for, is 30mm sufficient?
is kingspan the best material?
whats best to use as the vapour barrier?
any help would be much appreciated!
We removed a bad built in cupboard which exposed one wall as seen.............
Edited by strath44 on Sunday 21st December 20:29
If you want to bring it up to regs then 40mm is what is asked for at the moment. I used 50mm last time I did it because there was less than £1/sheet difference. 100mm will definitely be better but I'm not sure it will be worth the £12/sheet extra.
Insulation express is the cheapest I found for PIR insulation.
Insulation express is the cheapest I found for PIR insulation.
Spudler said:
Gtom said:
If you want to bring it up to regs then 40mm is what is asked for at the moment.
If BC were involved they'd want to see a min of 100.Building control, will not usually enforce upgrading of any insulation, unless its a change of use. At worse they expect the same type as replacement.
Common sense usually dictates people take advantage to upgrade in situations like this as its cost effective.
If that was one of my sites, i would probably look to put anywhere from 50 to 100mm in there with the associated works to widen the frame. As its your own home its well worth doing.
Also the increase in depth allows for you to insulate around the back of any electric back boxes you may put in that wall.
As its usually draughts that lose you a lot of heat.
Vapour barrier etc, as others have already said.
Good luck
Common sense usually dictates people take advantage to upgrade in situations like this as its cost effective.
If that was one of my sites, i would probably look to put anywhere from 50 to 100mm in there with the associated works to widen the frame. As its your own home its well worth doing.
Also the increase in depth allows for you to insulate around the back of any electric back boxes you may put in that wall.
As its usually draughts that lose you a lot of heat.
Vapour barrier etc, as others have already said.
Good luck
thanks for that mike, I will go that route. I have put an order into jewsons.
I am starting to learn more about vapour barrier, which appears to be polythene going buy what jewsons have supplied (I asked for gyproc to kingspan VB).
Some people on other sites suggest that VB isnt required as the kingspan is foil backed, however at the moment I still plan to fit it as the studs will need covered inbetween the kingspan.
I was going to get the room plastered afterwards my worry is where does the warm air or more particularly its moisture go if it can no longer pass through the wall?
The house has approx 5 year old pvc double glazing. Currently there are air vents fitted above the doors into the hall should I get rid of them?
I am starting to learn more about vapour barrier, which appears to be polythene going buy what jewsons have supplied (I asked for gyproc to kingspan VB).
Some people on other sites suggest that VB isnt required as the kingspan is foil backed, however at the moment I still plan to fit it as the studs will need covered inbetween the kingspan.
I was going to get the room plastered afterwards my worry is where does the warm air or more particularly its moisture go if it can no longer pass through the wall?
The house has approx 5 year old pvc double glazing. Currently there are air vents fitted above the doors into the hall should I get rid of them?
strath44 said:
I was going to get the room plastered afterwards my worry is where does the warm air or more particularly its moisture go if it can no longer pass through the wall?
Ha ha. That's why it's difficult. You need ventilation. The room can become so well insulated and draught proofed that condensation becomes a big problem. With the right ventilation you will however be able to manage that ventilation much better than when the house was built.(Then there's the problem that the outside wall may never dry out fully.)
Is it listed?
For a house that old you might want to look at breathable insulation/boarding/plaster/paints. Assume all the mortar is lime? We had modern plaster/fibreglass insulation and modern paint on the wall and it its now all coming off, salts coming through, walls saturated and the face of the bricks behind has perished.
It is a more expensive and time consuming option but will look much more in keeping with the original, better for the building and likely last longer.
FFG
For a house that old you might want to look at breathable insulation/boarding/plaster/paints. Assume all the mortar is lime? We had modern plaster/fibreglass insulation and modern paint on the wall and it its now all coming off, salts coming through, walls saturated and the face of the bricks behind has perished.
It is a more expensive and time consuming option but will look much more in keeping with the original, better for the building and likely last longer.
FFG
FlipFlopGriff said:
For a house that old you might want to look at breathable insulation...
Hmmm: http://www.kingspaninsulation.co.uk/getattachment/..."Bulk air-exchange (intended ventilation plus air-leakage) is at least 19 times more important than breathability in controlling air-borne moisture, surface condensation, mould growth, dust mites and consequent health problems."
TA14 said:
Hmmm: http://www.kingspaninsulation.co.uk/getattachment/...
"Bulk air-exchange (intended ventilation plus air-leakage) is at least 19 times more important than breathability in controlling air-borne moisture, surface condensation, mould growth, dust mites and consequent health problems."
Always suspect of White papers written by companies wanting to push their own products. So the solution is just air bricks then and its irrelevant what insulation there is. I've replaced all the modern material with studding filled with sheeps wool, wood wool board, hemp lime plaster and clay paint and 3 years later no mould, and 2 years of that with no heating in the house at all - the front north facing wall is also only single skin. "Bulk air-exchange (intended ventilation plus air-leakage) is at least 19 times more important than breathability in controlling air-borne moisture, surface condensation, mould growth, dust mites and consequent health problems."
We've used this for insulation (the lambs wool):
http://www.blackmountaininsulation.com/
I've seen what modern materials have done to an old building (ie mine) and have to disagree. Good to hear experiences of others.
Wonder how many modern houses will be around in 300+ years!
Spiders are more of a concern than dust mites
FFG
Edited by FlipFlopGriff on Tuesday 23 December 14:46
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