Help, lab with broken elbow!
Discussion
Really need some input from Bex or similar informed person. Phoebe is my 7 uear old Lab who was diagnosed with arthritus earlier in the year. Her treatment has, to my mind, been odd as they thought it was an infection in her bones causing it and she was on some strong anti-biotics for 6 weeks.
Anyway, we have had various 'crisis' times with her going lame on different legs and needing painkillers (tramadol) then back to steroids, then previcox and now metacam.
At the weekend, she was chasing her ball (she still loves chasing that bloody ball!) and she went over in a rolling heap. She'd obviously hurt her front right leg (the only one that has had no previous issues!) and I carried her back to the car - not easy as she is heavy after 6 months of steroids and me having a recently broken back! Normally, when she's hurt herself like this, a few hours or a day or so and she's back on her feet and ready to go again. But not this time, she has refused to put any weight on her right front leg and I've had to carry her everywhere - for a wee/poo etc.
She's been to the vets and went back today for x-rays. The recently qualified vet (not the normal lady I see who has nursed Phoebe through some horrendeous times) who we saw said that she's broken her elbow and he's referred her prints to a specialist who wants to do a CT scan in Bristol, this after he initially told me on the phone that it would be operated on tomorrow and be an hour or so operation. He told me the alternate when I went to pick her up tonight. He also said that he'd discussed her x-rays with seniour vets there who had all said they wouldn't touch it and it's the referred vet or put her down!
I'm in shock a bit to be honest.
He also said that this right front leg has been broken for ages (it's a chronic break) not just since the weekend and made me feel like I was abusing her. Thing is, she's been to the vets a dozen times recently and had a problem with her other front leg, but she has NEVER had a problem at all with this righ one.
He's put her in a sort of lightweight cast thing to immobilise her leg and given her tramadol etc, but she's worse now than she was before she went to the bloody vets. She's never cried about it - even when she did it she only whinged a little bit, but now she's lying her with me and she's just wimpering nearly constantly.
I really don't have any faith in this new vet and his 'bedside manner' sux big time. She's got problems and an injury but put her down?
Anyway, we have had various 'crisis' times with her going lame on different legs and needing painkillers (tramadol) then back to steroids, then previcox and now metacam.
At the weekend, she was chasing her ball (she still loves chasing that bloody ball!) and she went over in a rolling heap. She'd obviously hurt her front right leg (the only one that has had no previous issues!) and I carried her back to the car - not easy as she is heavy after 6 months of steroids and me having a recently broken back! Normally, when she's hurt herself like this, a few hours or a day or so and she's back on her feet and ready to go again. But not this time, she has refused to put any weight on her right front leg and I've had to carry her everywhere - for a wee/poo etc.
She's been to the vets and went back today for x-rays. The recently qualified vet (not the normal lady I see who has nursed Phoebe through some horrendeous times) who we saw said that she's broken her elbow and he's referred her prints to a specialist who wants to do a CT scan in Bristol, this after he initially told me on the phone that it would be operated on tomorrow and be an hour or so operation. He told me the alternate when I went to pick her up tonight. He also said that he'd discussed her x-rays with seniour vets there who had all said they wouldn't touch it and it's the referred vet or put her down!
I'm in shock a bit to be honest.
He also said that this right front leg has been broken for ages (it's a chronic break) not just since the weekend and made me feel like I was abusing her. Thing is, she's been to the vets a dozen times recently and had a problem with her other front leg, but she has NEVER had a problem at all with this righ one.
He's put her in a sort of lightweight cast thing to immobilise her leg and given her tramadol etc, but she's worse now than she was before she went to the bloody vets. She's never cried about it - even when she did it she only whinged a little bit, but now she's lying her with me and she's just wimpering nearly constantly.
I really don't have any faith in this new vet and his 'bedside manner' sux big time. She's got problems and an injury but put her down?
Wow at lot too read tough times.
My very first instinct as soon as I saw the title is that would be a referral job
Broken elbows are not common and not for a gp vet to deal with. It is not going too heal well without surgery (well my guess based on experience) so referral is the only option. As abrupt as the vet may have been there is an element of truth that you couldn't leave her with no treatment it will (or is usually) extremely painful although whether amputation could be considered I'm not sure, might depend on how she is otherwise physically.
A CT scan maybe a good call to see if can garner info on why she has an old fracture (if that's what it actually is) that wasn't detected. I suppose it could be steroid related however I know lots of dogs on.longterm steroids and this is not a side effect you usually see.
I wish I could give you an answer but if it were me I would want a referral at least.
The vet you have had sounds a bit too book read rather than actual experience it is possible arthritic changes are making it look like an old fracture, evenore reason to get the opinion of an orthopaedic vet. Also to ensure it is not pathologically occurring due to a tumour, though I would have expected your vets to pick that up on the xrays.
Keeping my fingers crosed for you both.
My very first instinct as soon as I saw the title is that would be a referral job
Broken elbows are not common and not for a gp vet to deal with. It is not going too heal well without surgery (well my guess based on experience) so referral is the only option. As abrupt as the vet may have been there is an element of truth that you couldn't leave her with no treatment it will (or is usually) extremely painful although whether amputation could be considered I'm not sure, might depend on how she is otherwise physically.
A CT scan maybe a good call to see if can garner info on why she has an old fracture (if that's what it actually is) that wasn't detected. I suppose it could be steroid related however I know lots of dogs on.longterm steroids and this is not a side effect you usually see.
I wish I could give you an answer but if it were me I would want a referral at least.
The vet you have had sounds a bit too book read rather than actual experience it is possible arthritic changes are making it look like an old fracture, evenore reason to get the opinion of an orthopaedic vet. Also to ensure it is not pathologically occurring due to a tumour, though I would have expected your vets to pick that up on the xrays.
Keeping my fingers crosed for you both.
Edited by bexVN on Monday 22 December 21:53
Thanks Bex, I was hoping you'd chime in. I sort of dashed it off as she was crying again, she has trouble getting comfortable with this cast on. It's not helping that the other dog (Chester) is in a flat spin panic about his mate and won't leave her alone -keeps trying to bonk her and then licking her everywhere.
I don't know why but I just got the feeling that they were after the cash. I know that's probably unfair on them but over the years I have spent about 8 grand on Phoebe with various operations and treatments - she's been a sickly child and prone to swallowing things! The only vet I trust there is Claire who we always wait to see but she's on holiday until after Christmas.
The reason for my lack of trust?
When Chester was a pup he went lame. We were told in no uncertain terms that he must NOT be allowed to walk anywhere, had to be kept quite and zero excercise. We pushed him everywhere in a brand new (bought for the purpose) Silverline pram!
Took him back a fortnight later and saw a different vet there who said everything we had been told was wrong and that we should have kept him mobile and excercised reasonably. He's fine as it happens, but it's always worried me....
Phoebe does have a fairly major problem with her left front leg - she hurt it a few months ago and she saw this same vet as today, then. He checked her over then and declared her okay(ish) but over the months her left leg has got better but she now walks 'funny' with her foot sort of turned in (left front) I'm seriously wondering if they've x-rayed the wrong leg! I could understand there being an old issue with that leg but not with the right front.
God knows, do I wait to see Claire next week or find a new vet sharpish?
I don't know why but I just got the feeling that they were after the cash. I know that's probably unfair on them but over the years I have spent about 8 grand on Phoebe with various operations and treatments - she's been a sickly child and prone to swallowing things! The only vet I trust there is Claire who we always wait to see but she's on holiday until after Christmas.
The reason for my lack of trust?
When Chester was a pup he went lame. We were told in no uncertain terms that he must NOT be allowed to walk anywhere, had to be kept quite and zero excercise. We pushed him everywhere in a brand new (bought for the purpose) Silverline pram!
Took him back a fortnight later and saw a different vet there who said everything we had been told was wrong and that we should have kept him mobile and excercised reasonably. He's fine as it happens, but it's always worried me....
Phoebe does have a fairly major problem with her left front leg - she hurt it a few months ago and she saw this same vet as today, then. He checked her over then and declared her okay(ish) but over the months her left leg has got better but she now walks 'funny' with her foot sort of turned in (left front) I'm seriously wondering if they've x-rayed the wrong leg! I could understand there being an old issue with that leg but not with the right front.
God knows, do I wait to see Claire next week or find a new vet sharpish?
I am surprised they've put a cast on for a elbow. That is a very hard area to successfully cast. When are they due to see her again.
Personally I would still want asap referral esp if I wasn't happy with my vet or a minimum of a second opinion. I don't think you should wait til after Christmas. If you do choose referral it'll need to be actioned tomorrow as urgent due to Christmas.
That cast will need a really close check on it, high risk of it slipping (does bandage go over and around her shoulders) or rubbing which can create major complications. A dressing should make her feel more comfortable than she was before it was put on not more pained.
Very hard to make assessments/ treatment calls etc not knowing her/seeing her or being a vet the above are just my thoughts/ gut feelings on what you've said (and what I think I would do if it were my dog) I hope it helps a bit.
Personally I would still want asap referral esp if I wasn't happy with my vet or a minimum of a second opinion. I don't think you should wait til after Christmas. If you do choose referral it'll need to be actioned tomorrow as urgent due to Christmas.
That cast will need a really close check on it, high risk of it slipping (does bandage go over and around her shoulders) or rubbing which can create major complications. A dressing should make her feel more comfortable than she was before it was put on not more pained.
Very hard to make assessments/ treatment calls etc not knowing her/seeing her or being a vet the above are just my thoughts/ gut feelings on what you've said (and what I think I would do if it were my dog) I hope it helps a bit.
Well, I took your advice and got another vet, saw him on Christmas eve after a long chat the previous day. Even though Dart Vale had been told of the change/cancelation on appointments, they were still being awkward and didn't send her notes through until late in the day and the x-rays have come through today!
Grahams opinion is that : 'she's done a proper job on it'. Nasty break that is not going to be straightforward to repair and will need scaffolding making before it can be screwed back together. I'm looking at a pretty sizeable bloody bill but hopefully, Animal friends won't be quite as bloody minded over a break as they have been over everything else! Even a bit back from them will be a help....
Having been seriously freaked out/scared/scarred by the idiot she saw previously she didn't have a wee for three days! She wouldn't step foot outside and even when I carried her out, she just hobbled straight back in again. But after seeing Graham (the new vet) she improved... she hobbled out of the surgery so fast I could barely keep up! So she's back to normal in most ways and is desperate to go out for a walk, which is a pain as the other dog needs to as well. She's even played with her ball (her static while I threw it at her and she caught it) so she's okay in herself.
The new vets have an orthopod on site (another branch) as well as a CT scanner and an appointment has been made with the ortho for next Monday as he's away on holiday - bloody Christmas! She's in tomorrow for her cast to be changed as it has slipped now, wether she'd be better off without it for the time being?
I'm now worried that she's got brittle bones instead of/as well as arthritus and mentioned this concern to the vet and it was a thought that had crossed his mind! Oh bum....
Grahams opinion is that : 'she's done a proper job on it'. Nasty break that is not going to be straightforward to repair and will need scaffolding making before it can be screwed back together. I'm looking at a pretty sizeable bloody bill but hopefully, Animal friends won't be quite as bloody minded over a break as they have been over everything else! Even a bit back from them will be a help....
Having been seriously freaked out/scared/scarred by the idiot she saw previously she didn't have a wee for three days! She wouldn't step foot outside and even when I carried her out, she just hobbled straight back in again. But after seeing Graham (the new vet) she improved... she hobbled out of the surgery so fast I could barely keep up! So she's back to normal in most ways and is desperate to go out for a walk, which is a pain as the other dog needs to as well. She's even played with her ball (her static while I threw it at her and she caught it) so she's okay in herself.
The new vets have an orthopod on site (another branch) as well as a CT scanner and an appointment has been made with the ortho for next Monday as he's away on holiday - bloody Christmas! She's in tomorrow for her cast to be changed as it has slipped now, wether she'd be better off without it for the time being?
I'm now worried that she's got brittle bones instead of/as well as arthritus and mentioned this concern to the vet and it was a thought that had crossed his mind! Oh bum....
Yes, Torbay based.
Shame really as I liked Claire and more importantly, so did Phoebe. But I'm not sending her to bloody Bristol for a CT and then somewhere else for the op, though I have now found out the vet they were referring her to is in Dawlish, so not far away at all, they just didn't say that!
She's been a 'problem child' since she was a pup - most expensive 'freebie' I've ever had!
Shame really as I liked Claire and more importantly, so did Phoebe. But I'm not sending her to bloody Bristol for a CT and then somewhere else for the op, though I have now found out the vet they were referring her to is in Dawlish, so not far away at all, they just didn't say that!
She's been a 'problem child' since she was a pup - most expensive 'freebie' I've ever had!
Update.
Saw the ortho surgeon on Monday and he took a load of x-rays and scans of her, and sent her home (yay!) as he had to order in some scraps of old metal to do the job - I suggested meccano.... As he's not convinced that this break will ever knit back properly, he had to get bloody great bolts of the precise dimensions and lengths to hold it all together and be strong enough to do so for ever if needed.
Rod MacGregor, lovely bloke is the vet and the first person I have ever met that Phoebe has allowed to stroke her face in the first couple of minutes (she's VERY nervous), which I felt was a great sign.
Anyway, he did the job yesterday and we had a long chat last night. He was very pleased with the way it had gone back together (there was a worry that after more than a fortnight there may have been problems) and was extremely pleased that an hour after coming round, she was already putting weight on the leg!
I wasn't allowed to pick her up until this morning as they wanted to keep her in overnight for pain relief etc, but picked her up at 10:00 this morning and she walked out of the surgery. Okay, it's a very 'limpy' walk, but she hasn't used that leg at all since before Christmas! She's not allowed out at all until the stitches are out in a fortnight, but she can go out for a wee without me having to carry her. Then a few more week of short walks and then, hopefully, back to normal?
Incidentally, Chester was an absolute nightmare without Phoebe around. He refused point blank to be left alone and was scratching at the door of the car to get out in the time it took me to get out, shut my door and open the rear one! I've never known him to be so panicy and needy. Still, she's home and he gave her a huge greeting in the vets surgery (kissed her face until I thought she was gonna lose her fur!) and now seems to be happy again.
Who says dogs don't have feelings/emotions? Not me.
Saw the ortho surgeon on Monday and he took a load of x-rays and scans of her, and sent her home (yay!) as he had to order in some scraps of old metal to do the job - I suggested meccano.... As he's not convinced that this break will ever knit back properly, he had to get bloody great bolts of the precise dimensions and lengths to hold it all together and be strong enough to do so for ever if needed.
Rod MacGregor, lovely bloke is the vet and the first person I have ever met that Phoebe has allowed to stroke her face in the first couple of minutes (she's VERY nervous), which I felt was a great sign.
Anyway, he did the job yesterday and we had a long chat last night. He was very pleased with the way it had gone back together (there was a worry that after more than a fortnight there may have been problems) and was extremely pleased that an hour after coming round, she was already putting weight on the leg!
I wasn't allowed to pick her up until this morning as they wanted to keep her in overnight for pain relief etc, but picked her up at 10:00 this morning and she walked out of the surgery. Okay, it's a very 'limpy' walk, but she hasn't used that leg at all since before Christmas! She's not allowed out at all until the stitches are out in a fortnight, but she can go out for a wee without me having to carry her. Then a few more week of short walks and then, hopefully, back to normal?
Incidentally, Chester was an absolute nightmare without Phoebe around. He refused point blank to be left alone and was scratching at the door of the car to get out in the time it took me to get out, shut my door and open the rear one! I've never known him to be so panicy and needy. Still, she's home and he gave her a huge greeting in the vets surgery (kissed her face until I thought she was gonna lose her fur!) and now seems to be happy again.
Who says dogs don't have feelings/emotions? Not me.
Yes, he's a lovely bloke, she's already walking - not far, but around the house unaided and she can go out for a wee/poo without me having to carry her. She wants to go out for a walk... desperately!
Just been back for her to be checked and have her dressing off, and apart from a pressure sore on her foot every thing looks great - no swelling or redness at all. She's walking better without the bandage and I think she's pleased to see her foot for the first time since before Christmas!
Was a tad annoyed though that they charged me £3.70 today for filling in a form - you'd think after all the bloody dosh they had off me on Tuesday they'd have waived that!
Not really annoyed, just whinging, soooooo glad to have her back on her feet and on the mend.
Just been back for her to be checked and have her dressing off, and apart from a pressure sore on her foot every thing looks great - no swelling or redness at all. She's walking better without the bandage and I think she's pleased to see her foot for the first time since before Christmas!
Was a tad annoyed though that they charged me £3.70 today for filling in a form - you'd think after all the bloody dosh they had off me on Tuesday they'd have waived that!
Not really annoyed, just whinging, soooooo glad to have her back on her feet and on the mend.
All sounding good, just keep a close eye on the pressure sore.
Re the fee, I assume that's for the insurance claim. A lot of vets charge a lot more than £3.70 to fill them in. It can take a member of staff at least an hour to complete these forms often a long longer (they have to search history etc)
If it is not insurance then I don't know what that charge is for?
Re the fee, I assume that's for the insurance claim. A lot of vets charge a lot more than £3.70 to fill them in. It can take a member of staff at least an hour to complete these forms often a long longer (they have to search history etc)
If it is not insurance then I don't know what that charge is for?
Pressure sores have healed beautifully, not sure they were from presure though as they just looked like they'd 'rubbed'raw. Either way, not good....
Just let her out for a wee while Chester was on his lead to go for a walk and she desperately wanted to come with us. I let her come a little way as she was so keen (I've always been a believer in the dog knowing what's best... up to a point!) and she hadn't done 'big jobs'. She came about a hundred yards and then looked at me and then towards home. So took her back and she was happy.
Still no 'big jobs' today, but she had a little walk which was to her satisfaction.
I so love this bloody dog!
Problem will be when she's all better: we've all got used to sleeping in a big heap on the front room floor (nest made out of pillows, cushions, quilts and blankets) and everyone is under the quilts - Phoebe with her head on my shoulder, snoring in my ear and Chester down the 'bed' either behind my knees or with his head in my lap. It is, I'm ashamed to admit, really comforting. Shame I now smell like a scruffy mutt!
Just let her out for a wee while Chester was on his lead to go for a walk and she desperately wanted to come with us. I let her come a little way as she was so keen (I've always been a believer in the dog knowing what's best... up to a point!) and she hadn't done 'big jobs'. She came about a hundred yards and then looked at me and then towards home. So took her back and she was happy.
Still no 'big jobs' today, but she had a little walk which was to her satisfaction.
I so love this bloody dog!
Problem will be when she's all better: we've all got used to sleeping in a big heap on the front room floor (nest made out of pillows, cushions, quilts and blankets) and everyone is under the quilts - Phoebe with her head on my shoulder, snoring in my ear and Chester down the 'bed' either behind my knees or with his head in my lap. It is, I'm ashamed to admit, really comforting. Shame I now smell like a scruffy mutt!
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