Clarke Carlisle fighting for his life...
Discussion
OpulentBob said:
They will still be earning more than 99% of "normal" people, and we normals aren't going off ten a penny throwing ourselves in front of trucks or stringing ourselves up in the wardrobe. And we don't have liggers sucking us off everywhere we go, treating us like some sort of f
king hero. I know that sounds harsh and unsympathetic, but having known a few suicides, including my grandfather, I have little time for them. Especially the super-selfish way of getting a truck driver to do it.
I don't see many footballers throwing themselves in front of lorries, or stringing themselves up, I think that's two Carlisle and Speed out of how many thousands of professional players in this country? Some do go off the rails, but I see plenty of junkies, alcoholics, gambling addicts, wife beaters, thieves, murderers, rapists etc who are these so called "normal people" every day in the papers too. king hero. I know that sounds harsh and unsympathetic, but having known a few suicides, including my grandfather, I have little time for them. Especially the super-selfish way of getting a truck driver to do it. Fact is a headline like "midfielder stays married and does the school run with his kids" is pretty dull. Yet there are plenty of players doing just that every day of the week.
Countdown said:
Anybody know why Ralf Little isn't happy with him? Apparently he has been making some bhy tweets?
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1skfskkhy tweets?Ralf Little said:
Clarke context and comments
First and foremost, and I should know this by now, twitter is not the place for this sort of thing, as it takes more than 140 characters to talk about anything seriously. So already I wish I hadn’t said anything, not because I regret the comment, but because the choice of forum was wrong and frankly understandable if people are riled up.
Next thing is, I don’t suddenly want to air a list of grievances that sound sensationalist and do some tabloid’s job for them. Clarke and I have history, that involves money, lies, on one notable occasion me being interrogated by the police over something I knew nothing about… and all sorts of other stuff.
Now, when it comes to mental illness, I understand it, I’ve lived around it, I’ve supported it, I fight against the stigmatization of it and so on. I think it’s a very real issue with a long road to go to combat it.
So that said, on to this case… It’s extremely difficult to watch someone repeatedly ruin other people’s lives, then explain it in such a way that makes them immune to criticism. And it keeps happening. It’s now reached a point where, as this proves, it’s like emotional touch paper. And sure, I’m not a professional expert on mental health, and no doubt, neither are you. But I know more about this particular case than you do just because you read about it in the Sun, or saw a documentary.
There comes a point where it’s just frustrating to witness someone constantly hammering the pattern of destruction for those around – and I was once one of those around - only to see the destructive force make a moving and sincere apology… then do it again.
(On reflection, that’s the nature of addiction/illness, and I know that all too well, but as I say, a rash tweet and it’s not the place for it. )
I should also say that during the course of this twitter… whatever it is, Clarke has been in touch with a retrospective apology over things that went on a long time ago, and I think that has to be respected by all, myself included.
Anyway... You have to be in a dark place to attempt suicide, and only a fool would suggest otherwise. However, I do find myself thinking that when you’ve been driving drunk five (is it?) times, risking lives of countless other people, and even in your darkest hour still manage to involve a lorry driver who could have died himself, and now has to live with that trauma and memory every day fro the REST of his life… Personally my stores of empathy start to dry up after a while.
Am I really that out of order for suggesting that’s not on? Do we repeatedly overlook reckless destruction of other lives beacause someone apologizes, again and again, and says it’s an illness? Isn't there a point where we can go, "enough is enough"?
I hate drink driving, I really do. I know victims of it, who have died, been paralysed, or lost loved ones, and I’ve watched this man get caught doing it several times then publicly forgiven, lauded, and handed a bloody good career! I’m sorry but that annoys me!
And I think that’s my overriding feeling. I don’t feel sad for Clarke any more, I was drained of that some time ago. Instead I feel sad, and maybe a little angry, for Gemma, and the kids, and the lorry driver, and the people who dived out of the way of the car all those years ago, and all the other people who have been fked over and over and over… you know who you are.
Of course I wish Clarke a strong recovery – and not just from the crash. It would be a better world if he and all other sufferers of such an insidious disease could find a way to fight the good fight. But when he does end up facing the drink driving charges, this time around, I hope, not least out of respect for the hundreds of drink driving victims who tweet me every year, they throw the book at him.
I don’t think that makes me a, or gobste, or a wker, or any other delightful name some of you came up with, but hey it’s a free country.
Though, as a final thought, I would say again, I’m a fool for forgetting that twitter is not, and never will be, the place for a comment like that. It’s too reductive and simplistic, and yes, without context, I can see it would seem insensitive and crass. Not my intention.
I’m going to bed.
First and foremost, and I should know this by now, twitter is not the place for this sort of thing, as it takes more than 140 characters to talk about anything seriously. So already I wish I hadn’t said anything, not because I regret the comment, but because the choice of forum was wrong and frankly understandable if people are riled up.
Next thing is, I don’t suddenly want to air a list of grievances that sound sensationalist and do some tabloid’s job for them. Clarke and I have history, that involves money, lies, on one notable occasion me being interrogated by the police over something I knew nothing about… and all sorts of other stuff.
Now, when it comes to mental illness, I understand it, I’ve lived around it, I’ve supported it, I fight against the stigmatization of it and so on. I think it’s a very real issue with a long road to go to combat it.
So that said, on to this case… It’s extremely difficult to watch someone repeatedly ruin other people’s lives, then explain it in such a way that makes them immune to criticism. And it keeps happening. It’s now reached a point where, as this proves, it’s like emotional touch paper. And sure, I’m not a professional expert on mental health, and no doubt, neither are you. But I know more about this particular case than you do just because you read about it in the Sun, or saw a documentary.
There comes a point where it’s just frustrating to witness someone constantly hammering the pattern of destruction for those around – and I was once one of those around - only to see the destructive force make a moving and sincere apology… then do it again.
(On reflection, that’s the nature of addiction/illness, and I know that all too well, but as I say, a rash tweet and it’s not the place for it. )
I should also say that during the course of this twitter… whatever it is, Clarke has been in touch with a retrospective apology over things that went on a long time ago, and I think that has to be respected by all, myself included.
Anyway... You have to be in a dark place to attempt suicide, and only a fool would suggest otherwise. However, I do find myself thinking that when you’ve been driving drunk five (is it?) times, risking lives of countless other people, and even in your darkest hour still manage to involve a lorry driver who could have died himself, and now has to live with that trauma and memory every day fro the REST of his life… Personally my stores of empathy start to dry up after a while.
Am I really that out of order for suggesting that’s not on? Do we repeatedly overlook reckless destruction of other lives beacause someone apologizes, again and again, and says it’s an illness? Isn't there a point where we can go, "enough is enough"?
I hate drink driving, I really do. I know victims of it, who have died, been paralysed, or lost loved ones, and I’ve watched this man get caught doing it several times then publicly forgiven, lauded, and handed a bloody good career! I’m sorry but that annoys me!
And I think that’s my overriding feeling. I don’t feel sad for Clarke any more, I was drained of that some time ago. Instead I feel sad, and maybe a little angry, for Gemma, and the kids, and the lorry driver, and the people who dived out of the way of the car all those years ago, and all the other people who have been f
ked over and over and over… you know who you are.Of course I wish Clarke a strong recovery – and not just from the crash. It would be a better world if he and all other sufferers of such an insidious disease could find a way to fight the good fight. But when he does end up facing the drink driving charges, this time around, I hope, not least out of respect for the hundreds of drink driving victims who tweet me every year, they throw the book at him.
I don’t think that makes me a
, or gobste, or a wker, or any other delightful name some of you came up with, but hey it’s a free country. Though, as a final thought, I would say again, I’m a fool for forgetting that twitter is not, and never will be, the place for a comment like that. It’s too reductive and simplistic, and yes, without context, I can see it would seem insensitive and crass. Not my intention.
I’m going to bed.
I'm not sure if all posters on here are aware, but he has always been fighting his demons (depression), he has contemplated suicide on more than one occasion. If you haven't seen the documentry he made then do try and see it, its quite moving.
However, I do acknowldge the post above, and its clear that he brings others into his 'world'
However, I do acknowldge the post above, and its clear that he brings others into his 'world'
I think Ralf Little has the right to air his views too. CC is not some poor victim in all of this. He may be "ill" in the loosest sense of the word, but the adverse impact he is having on those who know him, love him, or just happen to be near him at the wrong time needs to be seen too
LoonR1 said:
I think Ralf Little has the right to air his views too. CC is not some poor victim in all of this. He may be "ill" in the loosest sense of the word, but the adverse impact he is having on those who know him, love him, or just happen to be near him at the wrong time needs to be seen too
Spot on, Loon, a great post. 
Being involved with someone who exhibits the sort of behaviour that RL is saying CC has been "guilty" of, it's annoying, heartbreaking, infuriating and emotionally draining in equal measure. Impossible to live with and as RL says, there are many more victims in this story than the main one who is gaining all the sympathy at present.
not nice to have such things played out in public, but he keeps appearing on telly etc. so I suppose he wants it that way
split from wife now according to papers
family home is up for sale
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
split from wife now according to papers
family home is up for sale
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
Some interesting opinions on this thread and also some misconceptions. I have recently started a blog about my experiences of being a footballer. The Clarke Carlisle story was a bit close to home for me and made me thing seriously about my life. Anyway here is the link.
https://howfootballruinedmylife.wordpress.com
https://howfootballruinedmylife.wordpress.com
andrewparker said:
Anyone seen the tragic news that the lorry driver who hit Clarke has took his own life?
Terrible, terrible situation all round this.
Read the story again, it's not the lorry driver.Terrible, terrible situation all round this.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3149218/Va...
Looks like RL's comments about the ruining of others lives have come home to roost again,,,
I'm just going to put this on here again. I have no sympathy for people who choose to to ruin others lives, by their own selfish actions.
LoonR1 said:
I think Ralf Little has the right to air his views too. CC is not some poor victim in all of this. He may be "ill" in the loosest sense of the word, but the adverse impact he is having on those who know him, love him, or just happen to be near him at the wrong time needs to be seen too
LoonR1 said:
I'm just going to put this on here again. I have no sympathy for people who choose to to ruin others lives, by their own selfish actions.
Yeah, I'm not sure anyone is going to listen to you mate. All you're really doing is showing complete misunderstanding and ignorance of mental health problems. There is a great article on the Guardian website about Robin Williams suicide. I suggest you look it up and read it.LoonR1 said:
I think Ralf Little has the right to air his views too. CC is not some poor victim in all of this. He may be "ill" in the loosest sense of the word, but the adverse impact he is having on those who know him, love him, or just happen to be near him at the wrong time needs to be seen too
andrewparker said:
Yeah, I'm not sure anyone is going to listen to you mate. All you're really doing is showing complete misunderstanding and ignorance of mental health problems. There is a great article on the Guardian website about Robin Williams suicide. I suggest you look it up and read it.
You're right. Let's all fawn over the guy whose selfish attempt at suicide has caused someone else to commit suicide. If he's ill then deal with it and stop causing others to suffer just because he is. Being caught drink driving five times is not something to say "Oh the poor man, let's help him out." It's time to throw the book at him and if necessary, lock him up for the safety of others.
This is the article I was talking about. I honestly think if you can put aside your prejudices, read it and understand it, you will learn something.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/...
http://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/...
LoonR1 said:
Let's all fawn over the guy whose selfish attempt at suicide has caused someone else to commit suicide.
I'm not sure anyone is fawning over him. But, whilst I'm no expert on mental health issues, I suspect someone who is in the frame of mind to commit suicide isn't really capable of taking into account the effect on others. If they were, they probably wouldn't do it at all.I get that it's annoying that you get home late because someone has thrown themselves on the line and your trains are up the spout, but I reckon the jumper probably has other things on their mind.
It's difficult for those of us who take "thinking straight" for granted to understand how other people can't do it.
Woah. It's quite a jump to go from causing someone to commit suicide after your own failed attempt to the minor inconvenience of me getting home later than normal. At no point have I said that, or inferred it.
My issue is that Carlisle has caused the death of another person by his actions. That's my issue.
My issue is that Carlisle has caused the death of another person by his actions. That's my issue.
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