Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 3
Discussion
LongQ said:
Crush said:
So how many more years of failed MMuGW theory, incorrect predictions from increasingly expensive super computers and no warming will we have to endure until someone says "hang on, we can't keep peddling this s
t"?
Well, the more established religions have a few thousand years of history so it could be a while.t"?
turbobloke said:
New York is expecting considerable Vinerism from winter storm Juno with Obama hyping this 'extreme' weather with dire warnings. Then again, there is a point of sorts in there as cooling is far more harmful than warming. The rub will come when the cooling is claimed to be caused by warming.
I was talking to a colleague in Pennsylvania last night. Last week he was in the Chicago area for a few days and the predicted snow did not materialise for which he was grateful.Yesterday he was home and shoveling the snow from the front of his house - some left by neighbours he suspected. He thought he had better get it done as they are expecting another foot or more of snow imminently - presumably Juno related.
Still, shoveling the stuff is a warming activity he told me.
Britain's Green Madness May Kill Shale Revolution
Today sees the UK Parliament consider an amendment to the Infrastructure Bill that would introduce a moratorium on unconventional gas wells in the UK. To coincide with the vote, the Environmental Audit Committee has produced one of its normal sham reports saying that industrial activity will all end in disaster, based as always on a series of interviews with environmentalists and pretty much nobody else. It's good to know that the views of electrohippies are not being overlooked. I gather that the committee's chairman Joan Whalley has been all over the BBC this morning, no doubt given the usual free pass by the econutters who present programmes for the corporation.
Andrew Montford, Bishop Hill, 26 January 2015
By most estimates, the United Kingdom uses about three trillion cubic feet of natural gas every year. According to the British Geological Survey, there could be somewhere in the region of 1,329 trillion cubic feet of such gas under northern England alone. We would be mad to leave it there. We may be about to be mad. Today, the parliamentary environmental audit committee (EAC) will call for a moratorium on fracking.
The Times, 26 January 2015
Two of Britain’s biggest unions are urging Labour MPs not to support a ban on fracking as ministers signalled more concessions to head off a Commons rebellion. In a letter to Labour MPs, the GMB union said: “It would be premature to rule out the prospect of fracking when we don’t know if the industry is viable and, crucially, when so many of the issues around energy and security of supply remain unresolved.” The Unite union has also written to Labour MPs in the same terms.
Francis Elliott, The Times, 26 January 2015
Meanwhile the Ineos view is that without shale gas UK manufacturing is starting to collapse. Then again, that's exactly what Maurice Strong of the UN and his acolytes want to see.
http://www.prw.com/subscriber/headlines2.html
http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2015/1/26/a-big-da...
Today sees the UK Parliament consider an amendment to the Infrastructure Bill that would introduce a moratorium on unconventional gas wells in the UK. To coincide with the vote, the Environmental Audit Committee has produced one of its normal sham reports saying that industrial activity will all end in disaster, based as always on a series of interviews with environmentalists and pretty much nobody else. It's good to know that the views of electrohippies are not being overlooked. I gather that the committee's chairman Joan Whalley has been all over the BBC this morning, no doubt given the usual free pass by the econutters who present programmes for the corporation.
Andrew Montford, Bishop Hill, 26 January 2015
By most estimates, the United Kingdom uses about three trillion cubic feet of natural gas every year. According to the British Geological Survey, there could be somewhere in the region of 1,329 trillion cubic feet of such gas under northern England alone. We would be mad to leave it there. We may be about to be mad. Today, the parliamentary environmental audit committee (EAC) will call for a moratorium on fracking.
The Times, 26 January 2015
Two of Britain’s biggest unions are urging Labour MPs not to support a ban on fracking as ministers signalled more concessions to head off a Commons rebellion. In a letter to Labour MPs, the GMB union said: “It would be premature to rule out the prospect of fracking when we don’t know if the industry is viable and, crucially, when so many of the issues around energy and security of supply remain unresolved.” The Unite union has also written to Labour MPs in the same terms.
Francis Elliott, The Times, 26 January 2015
Meanwhile the Ineos view is that without shale gas UK manufacturing is starting to collapse. Then again, that's exactly what Maurice Strong of the UN and his acolytes want to see.
http://www.prw.com/subscriber/headlines2.html
http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2015/1/26/a-big-da...
Edited by turbobloke on Monday 26th January 11:31
turbobloke said:
Meanwhile the Ineos view is that without shale gas UK manufacturing is starting to collapse. Then again, that's exactly what Maurice Strong of the UN and his acolytes want to see.
Presumably the claimed several tens of thousand of recent newly signed up members of the Green party want the same.
There was a short video I saw yesterday where 3 newly signed up "students" made their pitch for why they think Green is the way to go. Given what an Ideal Green Future would seem to be, as outlined by Ms. Bennett, one wonders why they want to be students at all.
On the other hand they might as well spend the time studying (or whatever) since the Green plan would never want them to be in a position of earning enough to pay back any Student Loan based on current rules. So they would seem to have little to lose.
These fkwits don't let up; climageddon is now on a par with all out nuclear war apparently. 
Bulletin of Atomic Scientists hit the OMG! PANIC! button.
kwits don't let up; climageddon is now on a par with all out nuclear war apparently. Bulletin of Atomic Scientists hit the OMG! PANIC! button.
CNN said:
(CNN)The world is closer to doomsday.
That's the message from the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, which moved its iconic Doomsday Clock up two minutes on Thursday. The clock now stands at three minutes to midnight, the "latest" it's been since 1984, when the Cold War between the U.S. and Soviet Union was a major issue.
"Today, unchecked climate change and a nuclear arms race resulting from modernization of huge arsenals pose extraordinary and undeniable threats to the continued existence of humanity. And world leaders have failed to act with the speed or on the scale required to protect citizens from potential catastrophe," said Kennette Benedict, executive director of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, in a news release. "These failures of leadership endanger every person on Earth."
What a load of watermelon baloney.That's the message from the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, which moved its iconic Doomsday Clock up two minutes on Thursday. The clock now stands at three minutes to midnight, the "latest" it's been since 1984, when the Cold War between the U.S. and Soviet Union was a major issue.
"Today, unchecked climate change and a nuclear arms race resulting from modernization of huge arsenals pose extraordinary and undeniable threats to the continued existence of humanity. And world leaders have failed to act with the speed or on the scale required to protect citizens from potential catastrophe," said Kennette Benedict, executive director of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, in a news release. "These failures of leadership endanger every person on Earth."
It looks like it could be interesting to keep tabs on the "Historic" snow storm on the US East Coast.
Having shut down New York (despite, apparently, 2300 snow ploughs out on the streets) and Boston in a politically promoted safety move and made it illegal to be out in your car (around the NY area) the forecasters have, seemingly, started to downgrade the likely effects of Juno as it passes by.
Having shut down New York (despite, apparently, 2300 snow ploughs out on the streets) and Boston in a politically promoted safety move and made it illegal to be out in your car (around the NY area) the forecasters have, seemingly, started to downgrade the likely effects of Juno as it passes by.
LongQ said:
It looks like it could be interesting to keep tabs on the "Historic" snow storm on the US East Coast.
Having shut down New York (despite, apparently, 2300 snow ploughs out on the streets) and Boston in a politically promoted safety move and made it illegal to be out in your car (around the NY area) the forecasters have, seemingly, started to downgrade the likely effects of Juno as it passes by.
yep = that's a pretty gigantic fail. The storm has completely failed to materialise. So those "experts" who study the climate for a living can't even predict a major weather event accurately 24 hours before it happens, and we are supposed to be taxed and governed according to their long term predictions. Laughable. Having shut down New York (despite, apparently, 2300 snow ploughs out on the streets) and Boston in a politically promoted safety move and made it illegal to be out in your car (around the NY area) the forecasters have, seemingly, started to downgrade the likely effects of Juno as it passes by.
Apparently they are still expecting 8 to 10 inches of snow and some strong winds but nothing to approach record levels and the Blizzard warning has been cancelled.
The NY travel ban has been lifted. The subway is being reopened to passengers although apparently they have been running the trains anyway.
Interesting. Wonder if it's going to be worth buying popcorn?
The NY travel ban has been lifted. The subway is being reopened to passengers although apparently they have been running the trains anyway.
Interesting. Wonder if it's going to be worth buying popcorn?
krunchkin said:
LongQ said:
It looks like it could be interesting to keep tabs on the "Historic" snow storm on the US East Coast.
Having shut down New York (despite, apparently, 2300 snow ploughs out on the streets) and Boston in a politically promoted safety move and made it illegal to be out in your car (around the NY area) the forecasters have, seemingly, started to downgrade the likely effects of Juno as it passes by.
yep = that's a pretty gigantic fail. The storm has completely failed to materialise. So those "experts" who study the climate for a living can't even predict a major weather event accurately 24 hours before it happens, and we are supposed to be taxed and governed according to their long term predictions. Laughable. Having shut down New York (despite, apparently, 2300 snow ploughs out on the streets) and Boston in a politically promoted safety move and made it illegal to be out in your car (around the NY area) the forecasters have, seemingly, started to downgrade the likely effects of Juno as it passes by.
LongQ said:
Apparently they are still expecting 8 to 10 inches of snow and some strong winds but nothing to approach record levels and the Blizzard warning has been cancelled.
The hype made headlines and got Obama an 'extreme weather' soundbite, job done.Unfortunately for believers and The Team their bulls
t isn't sticking any more, it's too cold to be sloppy.Otispunkmeyer said:
krunchkin said:
LongQ said:
It looks like it could be interesting to keep tabs on the "Historic" snow storm on the US East Coast.
Having shut down New York (despite, apparently, 2300 snow ploughs out on the streets) and Boston in a politically promoted safety move and made it illegal to be out in your car (around the NY area) the forecasters have, seemingly, started to downgrade the likely effects of Juno as it passes by.
yep = that's a pretty gigantic fail. The storm has completely failed to materialise. So those "experts" who study the climate for a living can't even predict a major weather event accurately 24 hours before it happens, and we are supposed to be taxed and governed according to their long term predictions. Laughable. Having shut down New York (despite, apparently, 2300 snow ploughs out on the streets) and Boston in a politically promoted safety move and made it illegal to be out in your car (around the NY area) the forecasters have, seemingly, started to downgrade the likely effects of Juno as it passes by.
foreverdriving said:
turbobloke said:
The hype made headlines and got Obama an 'extreme weather' soundbite, job done.
They've got it covered either way Storm arrives: "Extreme weather because of evil CO2!"
Storm doesn't arrive: "No more winters because of evil CO2"
Fancy a dose of climate model failure? Try this trio:
Daily Mail covers model abject failure after published study shows that "predictions are 'very greatly' exaggerated".
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-292...
Briggsy is back on the case after being hacked off by hackers "a major peer-reviewed climate physics paper in the first issue of the prestigious Science Bulletin (formerly Chinese Science Bulletin), the Orient’s equivalent of Science or Nature, exposes elementary but serious errors in the billion-dollar general-circulation computer models relied on by the UN’s climate panel, the IPCC. The errors were the reason for concern about Man’s effect on the climate. Without the errors, there is no climate crisis."
http://wmbriggs.com/blog/15095
Monckton and Briggs join forces with Dr Willie Soon and David Legates with a good result, and here it is.
http://www.scibull.com:8080/EN/abstract/abstract50...
Daily Mail covers model abject failure after published study shows that "predictions are 'very greatly' exaggerated".
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-292...
Briggsy is back on the case after being hacked off by hackers "a major peer-reviewed climate physics paper in the first issue of the prestigious Science Bulletin (formerly Chinese Science Bulletin), the Orient’s equivalent of Science or Nature, exposes elementary but serious errors in the billion-dollar general-circulation computer models relied on by the UN’s climate panel, the IPCC. The errors were the reason for concern about Man’s effect on the climate. Without the errors, there is no climate crisis."
http://wmbriggs.com/blog/15095
Monckton and Briggs join forces with Dr Willie Soon and David Legates with a good result, and here it is.
http://www.scibull.com:8080/EN/abstract/abstract50...
This is worth a separate mention...
"...three rounds of tough peer review in which two of the reviewers had at first opposed the paper on the ground that it questioned the IPCC’s predictions..."
That's disgraceful political bks not science and therefore very apt in this thread 
Those reviewers ought never to be used again by any Journal.
"...three rounds of tough peer review in which two of the reviewers had at first opposed the paper on the ground that it questioned the IPCC’s predictions..."
That's disgraceful political b
ks not science and therefore very apt in this thread Those reviewers ought never to be used again by any Journal.
New York snow forecast.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30996010
The National Weather Service have recognised that they got things a bit wrong for the NY prediction but may get away with it based on falls in other places.
I suspect this story could run for another day or so.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30996010
The National Weather Service have recognised that they got things a bit wrong for the NY prediction but may get away with it based on falls in other places.
I suspect this story could run for another day or so.
India Says ‘Non Merci’ To Obama Climate Deal
India’s resistance to accept a peak year for emissions was a prime reason why US President Barack Obama and Prime Minister Narendra Modi failed to strike a climate deal along the lines of a US-China agreement on emission cuts. The US wanted India to make specific commitments including a peak year for a new climate treaty to be signed at Paris later this year. But India refused as it feared it would have resulted in the world putting India in the same bracket as China on carbon emissions.
Chetan Chauhan, Hindustan Times, 27 January 2015
Greek Government Plans New Coal Power Plants
Syriza’s election victory in Greece has kindled hopes of an environmental champion pushing for greater climate ambition on the European stage, but the party will need to balance its green credentials with a commitment to new coal plants. “If we face fiscal difficulties from abroad in the medium term, then to burn more lignite instead of importing energy will seem a wise thing to do,” a Syriza source said. “If we don’t have money to import petrol then we will burn lignite which is free – not of a carbon footprint – but relatively cheaper. One way or another Greek lignite will be exploited.”
Arthur Nielsen, The Guardian, 26 January 2015
Met Office: "It’s not possible to definitively say which of several recent years was the warmest”
With the release of the 2014 HadCRUT4 data by the UK Met Office, and the previous release of global temperature data by Berkeley Earth, NASA and NOAA, the main conclusion to be drawn from the data is that 2014 was a warm year, but not statistically distinguishable from most of the years of the past decade or so meaning that the “pause” in global annual average surface temperatures continues.
GWPF, London, 27 January 2015
Met Office Confirms Indirectly That 2014 Continued The Global Warming ‘Pause’
The Met Office said: “The HadCRUT4 dataset (compiled by the Met Office and the University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit) shows last year was 0.56C (±0.1C) above the long-term (1961-1990) average. Nominally this ranks 2014 as the joint warmest year in the record, tied with 2010, but the uncertainty ranges mean it’s not possible to definitively say which of several recent years was the warmest.”
Quoting the temperature to one hundredth of a degree and the error on that measurement to a tenth of a degree is not normal scientific practice. It is against normal scientific practice to have an error of the measurement larger than the precision of that measurement. This means that most scientists would have rounded the data so that it was 0.6 +/- 0.1 °C. If this is done to the HadCRUT4 dataset it is even more obvious that there has been a warming “pause” for the past 18 years.
GWPF, London, 27 January 2015
India’s resistance to accept a peak year for emissions was a prime reason why US President Barack Obama and Prime Minister Narendra Modi failed to strike a climate deal along the lines of a US-China agreement on emission cuts. The US wanted India to make specific commitments including a peak year for a new climate treaty to be signed at Paris later this year. But India refused as it feared it would have resulted in the world putting India in the same bracket as China on carbon emissions.
Chetan Chauhan, Hindustan Times, 27 January 2015
Greek Government Plans New Coal Power Plants
Syriza’s election victory in Greece has kindled hopes of an environmental champion pushing for greater climate ambition on the European stage, but the party will need to balance its green credentials with a commitment to new coal plants. “If we face fiscal difficulties from abroad in the medium term, then to burn more lignite instead of importing energy will seem a wise thing to do,” a Syriza source said. “If we don’t have money to import petrol then we will burn lignite which is free – not of a carbon footprint – but relatively cheaper. One way or another Greek lignite will be exploited.”
Arthur Nielsen, The Guardian, 26 January 2015
Met Office: "It’s not possible to definitively say which of several recent years was the warmest”
With the release of the 2014 HadCRUT4 data by the UK Met Office, and the previous release of global temperature data by Berkeley Earth, NASA and NOAA, the main conclusion to be drawn from the data is that 2014 was a warm year, but not statistically distinguishable from most of the years of the past decade or so meaning that the “pause” in global annual average surface temperatures continues.
GWPF, London, 27 January 2015
Met Office Confirms Indirectly That 2014 Continued The Global Warming ‘Pause’
The Met Office said: “The HadCRUT4 dataset (compiled by the Met Office and the University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit) shows last year was 0.56C (±0.1C) above the long-term (1961-1990) average. Nominally this ranks 2014 as the joint warmest year in the record, tied with 2010, but the uncertainty ranges mean it’s not possible to definitively say which of several recent years was the warmest.”
Quoting the temperature to one hundredth of a degree and the error on that measurement to a tenth of a degree is not normal scientific practice. It is against normal scientific practice to have an error of the measurement larger than the precision of that measurement. This means that most scientists would have rounded the data so that it was 0.6 +/- 0.1 °C. If this is done to the HadCRUT4 dataset it is even more obvious that there has been a warming “pause” for the past 18 years.
GWPF, London, 27 January 2015
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