Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 3

[rovermorris999]

I'm currently using two solid fuel stoves, a wood-burner and own three V8s so I'm doing my bit to keep it warm. Go carbon!

[steveT350C]

German Professor: NASA Has Fiddled Climate Data On ‘Unbelievable’ Scale
climate dataCARL DE SOUZA/AFP/Getty Images
by JAMES DELINGPOLE
A German professor has confirmed what skeptics from Britain to the US have long suspected: that NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies has largely invented “global warming” by tampering with the raw temperature data records.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/24...

[robinessex]

Bet that doesn't end up on the front page of any national UK newspapers. Or the BBC.

Edited by robinessex on Tuesday 24th November 21:51

[Beati Dogu]

Mmm... NASA GISS - the 'bad' NASA. Former head, James Hansen practically invented global warming and has been arrested multiple times at environmental protests. No danger of any possible bias there then.

BTW did anyone see Channel 4 news earlier from Dhaka in Bangladesh? Jon Snow is a true believer of course. Ostensibly he was there for a pre-Paris guilt trip, although he was no doubt really there to pick up some more Asian babes. He certainly seems to have a thing for them.

[LongQ]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-333...

Looks like Lewandowsky's up to more politics - just in time for ...... ?

[turbobloke]

LongQ said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-333...

Looks like Lewandowsky's up to more politics - just in time for ...... ?

"Researchers in the UK have teamed up to uncover the mystery of the global warming 'hiatus.' The study analysed scientific articles spanning the last 15 years which addressed this widely discussed 'pause' in global warming."

Mystery? There were 30+ excuses from believer scientists trying to massage it away, now it never existed? All that work! For nothing! And not really a U-turn post-Karl and the ship intakes fiasco.

Link said:

With no substantial evidence to support the idea of a pause in global warming, the study concluded that continued use of the term could be hazardous to public understanding of climate change issues.

Massively synthetic. It's not a new review of credible data, it's another consensus manufacturing exercise, making it meaningless like all the others.

[Otispunkmeyer]

With what has happened in Paris and other recent events (Belgium, Syria, Turkey, Egypt etc) I can't imagine the so far imaginary threat of GW is atop anyones current agenda. Especially when there is a very real, immediate threat to peoples lives coming from else where.

I imagine as well that because of Paris, security costs for COP21 are going to be astronomical so the bets that it costs more than it raises in pledges are surely going to win out.

I bet they're really panicked that no one will be listening given all the other horrible stuff thats happened.

[turbobloke]

Which goes a long way to explaining the repetition of unsuccessful strategies and an increasingly desperate agenda to try to catch headlines.

Hide the MWP was a joke and never stood a chance. Hide the decline failed. Now we've got hide the pause not long after Pachauri tried to hide the sausage.

[don4l]

Global Warming caused Hitler!

Yes, you did read that correctly.

See here:-
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/11/24/the-ultimate...

[turbobloke]

Ve haf vays of making you varm.

[Mr GrimNasty]

steveT350C said:

German Professor: NASA Has Fiddled Climate Data On ‘Unbelievable’ Scale
climate dataCARL DE SOUZA/AFP/Getty Images
by JAMES DELINGPOLE
A German professor has confirmed what skeptics from Britain to the US have long suspected: that NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies has largely invented “global warming” by tampering with the raw temperature data records.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/24...

Yes, I posted a link to that scientist's work pages back.

GISS has a graphing tool, it's hilarious, just comparing v2 with v3 data, let alone the other massive adjustments that have been made before this.

It seems most stations that show a cooling trend, or (as most do) the cyclic warming and cooling over the 20th century, are magically transformed into a perfect CO2 global warming theory matching, continuous warming trend.

Science is dead. The 'data' is clearly just fraudulent junk.

Edit - just to give you an idea of the scale of the 'adjustments', this involves making previously accepted temperatures c1900 for example, as much as 2C colder.

Edited by Mr GrimNasty on Wednesday 25th November 10:41

[FiF]

Taken from this Telegraph article concerning a demand for an OF GEM investigation. It's alleged that Calon Energy responded to a National Grid forward Notification of a Inadequate System Margin (NISM) between 4.30 and 6.30pm by reducing the power output of its Severn Plant at 3pm, after the NISM was issued, then bidding higher prices to respond to the request to bring more generation capacity on line. Finally was paid 50 times the average wholesale price at which point it brought the Severn Plant back up.

As always, follow the money.

[Mr GrimNasty]

Air pollution death facts. Stern v Lomborg. No contest!

http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2015/11/25/...

[LongQ]

FiF said:

Taken from this Telegraph article concerning a demand for an OF GEM investigation. It's alleged that Calon Energy responded to a National Grid forward Notification of a Inadequate System Margin (NISM) between 4.30 and 6.30pm by reducing the power output of its Severn Plant at 3pm, after the NISM was issued, then bidding higher prices to respond to the request to bring more generation capacity on line. Finally was paid 50 times the average wholesale price at which point it brought the Severn Plant back up.

As always, follow the money.

All one can say is thank goodness we don't have to supply so many energy intensive industries these days.

And of course for the development of LED light bulbs.

If people are going to game the system they may want to consider just how vindictive "the system" can be when they discover a route to recrimination.

Where automated trading might be involved one probably needs to understand the underlying logic rather well before dabbling.

Of course one also wonders whether sometimes, moving into a period of a revised regime model, one or two permitted "examples" of what not to attempt might be required to herd the competitors into line.

[chris watton]

Climate trougher Tim Yeo loses libel action against Sunday Times

http://order-order.com/2015/11/25/tim-yeo-loses-li...

'Yeo has to make a costs down payment to The Sunday Times of £411,000 within 28 days.'

[turbobloke]

chris watton said:

Climate trougher Tim Yeo loses libel action against Sunday Times

http://order-order.com/2015/11/25/tim-yeo-loses-li...

'Yeo has to make a costs down payment to The Sunday Times of £411,000 within 28 days.'

Excellent news and the manner of Yeo's defeat puts a cherry on the icing on the cake.

Sunday Times journalist who wrote the accurate and truthful content said:

We won on every count and the Judge used the following words to describe Yeo’s evidence: “implausible”, “unreliable”, “not honest”,”dishonest”, “untruthful”, “untrue” and “unworthy of belief”.

[don4l]

chris watton said:

Climate trougher Tim Yeo loses libel action against Sunday Times

http://order-order.com/2015/11/25/tim-yeo-loses-li...

'Yeo has to make a costs down payment to The Sunday Times of £411,000 within 28 days.'

The judge clearly thought that Yeo is a liar.

Guido said:

The judge used the following words to describe Yeo’s evidence: “implausible”, “unreliable”, “not honest”,”dishonest”, “untruthful”, “untrue” and “unworthy of belief”

Those terms are fairly unambiguous.

[superlightr]

what were the original allegations?

[chris watton]

superlightr said:

what were the original allegations?

Cash for advocacy allegations:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/12014863/...

[durbster]

turbobloke said:

Without getting into the beer issue, you might like to look at the earlier posts you replied to, then reflect on your post and which element of the description you isolated and focused on.

The key issue in terms of predictability, including response to perturbations, is the chaotic bit not the complex bit.

Hm. I think that analogy was taken a bit too literally.

My point was simply that it is not beyond the wit of man to understand complicated and chaotic things to the extent that we understand them enough to manage them.

We figured out how to grow crops despite farmland being subject to the same chaos that makes up the climate.

alock said:

Are you saying we're able to accurately predict the exact amount of beer it takes on a daily basis for dangerous and irreversible long term liver damage? The level of accuracy is important here. To match AGW I would guess we have to be at the sub-milliliter level.

Nope. Well, perhaps, but it depends on how deep you are willing to wade into the AGW conspiracy theory. My issue is that there are apparently people on here that refuse to believe the greenhouse effect even exists, i.e. increasing the ratio of certain gasses increases air temperature - despite it being proveable by science. In the analogy: they're refusing to accept that beer gets you drunk.

The detail of the consequences of that are fair game for debate and are so complex that of course we'll get a lot wrong before we get a lot right. That said, some of the consequences seem blindingly obvious e.g. warmer air = less ice, but even they're contested on here.

The problem is, some are unwilling to accept that science always gets a lot of things wrong all the time, especially in the detail. The constant references to Viner's prediction about the UK not seeing snow again is a prime example. That sort of thing just encourages a superficial, tabloid quality debate that bounces between arguments at the absurd extremes.

You can't say that climate is a very complex system that's difficult to predict and then also deride somebody who got a prediction wrong.

Obviously the question of addressing the greenhouse effect is ripe for debate but that can only be done when people are prepared to look at the overwhelming evidence and accept the science, as the world outside this curious little echo chamber has done. I suppose that was the point of this thread but it seems unable to escape the quagmire of misinformed and misguided science.

Anyway, I'm less inclined to get involved in that aspect. I had a quick look at those videos from Edenhofer and will watch them again when I have time, but global economics is far too complex and chaotic for my liking.

Edited by durbster on Wednesday 25th November 14:00