Ticket in Limited Speed Hire Vehicle

Ticket in Limited Speed Hire Vehicle

Author
Discussion

woosh

Original Poster:

19 posts

266 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
Hi All,

The missus recently hired a small van (the first time she'd ever hired a vehicle) and she got caught doing 74mph in a 70 limit (dual carriageway). The 74 in a 70 would have been bad enough but it now turns out the vehicle she hired is limited to 60mph for dual carriageway use.
When she hired the vehicle nobody explained there was any speed limitations associated with it and there was nothing in either the vehicle, or the hire paperwork to explain the limitations.
Does anyone have any view on the likelihood of this being accepted as mitigating circumstances, or is this just a case the law saying "....she should have known"?
Thanks,

Woosh!!


carreauchompeur

17,830 posts

203 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
bks. That's bad luck and you wouldn't necessarily expect it in some vans.

Unfortunately, she is banged to rights. No defences available. Sorry

Schtum

132 posts

172 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
As ever, ignorance of the law is no defence.

woosh

Original Poster:

19 posts

266 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
Oh, great, that really sucks!! furious

Thanks for the enlightenment.

KrazyIvan

4,341 posts

174 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
What was the van, as I thought small vans, or car derived vans, had the same speed limits as cars.

paintman

7,669 posts

189 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
Something a lot of people fall foul of. On single carriageways as well.
https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits
"Vans and ‘car-derived’ vans
Most vans are under 7.5 tonnes laden (loaded) weight and must follow the speed limits for goods vehicles of the same weight. This includes Ford Transit vans.
‘Car-derived’ vans weigh no more than 2 tonnes when loaded and are goods vehicles based on car designs, such as a Ford Fiesta van or Vauxhall Astra van. Check your log book under ‘body type’ if you’re not sure."

Road speed limit for vans (Goods vehicle under 7.5 tonnes laden:
Built-up area 30mph
Single carriageway 50mph
Dual carriageway 60mph
Motorway 70mph (60mph if towing)

Drumroll

3,738 posts

119 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
There lies the problem too many people believe vans are the same as cars, they are not.

woosh

Original Poster:

19 posts

266 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
Thanks all....depressed frowncensored

pingu393

7,709 posts

204 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

The argument is what is a "car-derived van"? Although my Escort van is officially recognised as one (according to section D.5 of the V5C), there is no car with the same shape.

A Transit Connect is probably not classed as car-derived, even though is is the obvious modern equivalent to my Escort.

Edited by pingu393 on Tuesday 30th December 00:45

Sir Bagalot

6,463 posts

180 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
I knew this.

But only because I learnt it on the driver awareness course I attended. Before that I honestly didn't know because I had never driven a van.

Still bang to rights

Chrisgr31

13,440 posts

254 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
carreauchompeur said:
bks. That's bad luck and you wouldn't necessarily expect it in some vans.

Unfortunately, she is banged to rights. No defences available. Sorry
Doesn't of course stop her mentioning it if there is to be a hearing, she may or may not get a sympathetic hearing. You'd have thought it would be an obvious thing for a hire company to point out.

tom_loughlin

371 posts

199 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
I've fallen foul of this one too -56mph on a NSL single carriageway main road (A5 near Shrewsbury) in a Transit.

Oops

paintman

7,669 posts

189 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
pingu393 said:
The argument is what is a "car-derived van"? Although my Escort van is officially recognised as one (according to section D.5 of the V5C), there is no car with the same shape.

A Transit Connect is probably not classed as car-derived, even though is is the obvious modern equivalent to my Escort.
The Connect is a van & subject to the Goods vehicle speed limits. From Ford's advertised figures (their Connect brochure), with the exception of one variant the Gross Vehicle Mass exceeds 2 tonnes. Its a dedicated chassis as well, so its not car derived.
This from Bedfordshire Police website:
"What is a "car derived van"?
Under the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, a "car derived van" is defined as:- "A goods vehicle which is constructed or adapted as a derivative of a passenger vehicle and which has a maximum laden weight not exceeding 2 tonnes."
The important word in this definition is "and" as there are goods vehicles that look as if they are based on a passenger vehicle, but when the manufacturer puts a gross laden weight on the goods vehicle, which is the design weight of the vehicle plus the maximum load that it is designed to carry, and this exceeds 2 tonnes, that vehicle is no longer a car derived van. The van becomes an ordinary goods vehicle under 7.5 tonnes gross weight, and is therefore subject to the speed limits as shown in the Highway Code.
As a "rule of thumb" any van larger than a Vauxhall Astra van will have a gross weight in excess of 2 tonnes and is therefore subject to the reduced "class of vehicle" speed limits. Ford Transit, Mercedes Sprinter, Mercedes Vito, Peugeot Expert and Ford Connect, for example, are restricted vans.
It is immaterial that a goods vehicle may be unladen at the time it is detected exceeding the speed limit. The construction of the vehicle that enables it to be used up to the 7.5 tonnes maximum weight is the relevant criteria."
http://www.bedfordshire.police.uk/advice_centre/ca...

Don't forget to check what your V5 says.

shep1001

4,599 posts

188 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
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No chance of pleading ignorance. If you like living dangerously buy SWIMBO a copy of the highway code as a late christmas present!

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
She should have known (as far as the people giving out tickets are concerned), but that doesn't stop differential speed limits being a stupid, stupid idea.

FiF

43,960 posts

250 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
Out of interest what was the van? Academic interest no more.

If it could be considered, by the inexperienced, as a car derived van, even though technically it almost certainly isn't, it just backs up my argument that these laws are badly in need of revision. The government sees fit to review NSL limits for artics and the like, it should review these too.

Might be worth a mention to the hire company too, unless the mistake was obvious ie a Transit say. If I were in their shoes I'd be advising new clients at risk.

allergictocheese

1,290 posts

112 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
The laws surrounding vans are not well known amongst people who don't drive them regularly. You'd also have to question quite why vans need to be restricted as they are?

Either better publicise the current law or revise it would be my opinion.

paintman

7,669 posts

189 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
Wouldn't take much for a hire company to give a sheet showing vehicle speed limit when hiring out vans.

carreauchompeur

17,830 posts

203 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
paintman said:
Wouldn't take much for a hire company to give a sheet showing vehicle speed limit when hiring out vans.
Yeah, that would make sense.

I fear that it's not worth doing anything other than pleading guilty and taking it on the chin- any mitigation related to lack of knowledge wouldn't generally help- and she was exceeding the car limit anyway.

jmorgan

36,010 posts

283 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
paintman said:
Wouldn't take much for a hire company to give a sheet showing vehicle speed limit when hiring out vans.
I can see that being a help but I can also see that being a can of worms. They would have to be very careful how it is worded, far easier to let the driver deal with it methinks?