***The offical Monte Carlo Rally Thread 2015***
Discussion
t today it is giving me last years rally Sweden itinerary when I click on live!Think this going to go all the way - provided they keep running. Tyre choices & road position is having a real effect on the results: they're in a class of their own. Not sure what that says about the WRC in general, but, enjoy it whilst it lasts. Hopefully, Loeb will do a few more WRC events. I'm sure Ogier would be delighted......
jamiebae said:
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one then. 
He has turned up after very little testing, having done one rally in the last year, and in an inferior car has been consistently faster than the driver most people consider to be the best in the sport today, in what is unquestionably the best car. Obviously it doesn't prove that he would be champion if he did the full season, but it puts enough doubt into the mind of anyone watching that it damages the credibility of the person who does eventually win.
Apologies for the long post ! ! He has turned up after very little testing, having done one rally in the last year, and in an inferior car has been consistently faster than the driver most people consider to be the best in the sport today, in what is unquestionably the best car. Obviously it doesn't prove that he would be champion if he did the full season, but it puts enough doubt into the mind of anyone watching that it damages the credibility of the person who does eventually win.
That's fine, I have no problem whatsoever with anyone disagreeing with my point of view.
But as a certain J Clarkson Esq would say "That's a good/valid point, but you're wrong" 
But lets consider a few points :
You've stated that SL's times have been consistently faster than SO's. Let's take the first stage last night. Which two drivers set the fastest times ? SL and Tanak. What do both drivers have in common ? Neither drove a top line WRC car regularly in last years WRC.
Ergo, with no split times available to the drivers this year, they had no point of reference to gauge their performance by on that first treacherous stage last night.
What would you have done in their situation ? Taken it easy and see where you were relative to your adversaries after two stages, or drive as fast as you could to ensure you weren't miles off the pace.
Compare Ogiers demeanour at the end of that first stage, (pretty nonchalant, clearly a bit surprised at how icy the stage was, but no massive concern over his time) All in all, a normal day in the office.
Now look at Loeb, bathed in sweat after a freezing cold 15 mile stage, clearly concerned as to what his time was (and the same applied to Elena I suspect). Once he knew what his time was, there was nonchalant shrug, but my guess is things were pretty fraught inside that car over those first 15 miles. Loeb clearly felt as much, as he referred to his conversation with Elena mid stage whereby he said it felt like the car was stationary such was their pace at one point.
But let's look at the times :
Stage 1 Loeb nearly 31 seconds faster.
Stage 2 Ogier nearly 18 seconds faster.
Stage 3 Loeb 15 seconds faster
Stage 4 Ogier 4 seconds faster
Stage 5 Ogier 21 seconds faster
Stage 6 Loeb 3 seconds faster
Stage 7 Ogier 15 seconds faster
Stage 8 Well let's not go there .....
So SL's hardly been "consistently" faster than SO I think you'd agree ?
But what's also clear is there were some mind games being tried on/played by SL this morning. No harm in that, but there are no "wrong" tyres on the Monte, only the "least compromised". And what's compromised on ice snow, isn't on Tarmac, and vice versa. Someone was feeling the pressure alright, but I'd suggest it wasn't Ogier .......
Loeb has everything to lose, and on both this event and Rally France two years ago, he's done a pretty impressive job of doing just that.
But I do actually agree with you, he should stay away from the WRC altogether, or step up to the plate and do a full season. Though I think the chances of that happening probably evaporated at some point during Stage 8 this afternoon.........
As we saw with Michael Schumacher, just because you were a former multi world championship winning driver, doesn't mean you still are.
BUT, discount Loeb at your peril, if the conditions are right tomorrow, he'll be doing all he can to redress the situation, if for no other reason than to retain his dignity.
As for the VW being a superior car ? Well VW and Ogier have done what Loeb and Citroen along with Mitsubishi and Makinen did all through the Nineties and Noughties, that being to develop a car around one driver (something Ford may want to consider, rather than producing a "generic" car and hoping the next driver can/will adapt to it). And just as Mitsubishi and Citroen found, VW too have established that doing so makes for a winning car/driver combination.
I knew Kubica wouldn't last the whole weekend (not counting yesterday's dnf, electric gremlins don't count) can't see what starts the accident, but he's clearly out of control coming into view before hitting stuff.
http://youtu.be/UKycs3orteI
http://youtu.be/UKycs3orteI
Slippydiff said:
Apologies for the long post ! !
But let's look at the times :
Stage 1 Loeb nearly 31 seconds faster.
Stage 2 Ogier nearly 18 seconds faster.
Stage 3 Loeb 15 seconds faster
Stage 4 Ogier 4 seconds faster
Stage 5 Ogier 21 seconds faster
Stage 6 Loeb 3 seconds faster
Stage 7 Ogier 15 seconds faster
Stage 8 Well let's not go there .....
Apology for the long post accepted but to me you have proved that the only driver who can live with Ogier is Loeb and with him the sport would be much stronger as without him, Ogier will walk it. Loeb/Citroen versus Ogier/VW for the entire season would be more watering and I am not sure who would win. Based on the facts you have presented, they are pretty equally matched. Such a shame he binned it - if one of theme was going to bin it then my money would have been on Ogier.But let's look at the times :
Stage 1 Loeb nearly 31 seconds faster.
Stage 2 Ogier nearly 18 seconds faster.
Stage 3 Loeb 15 seconds faster
Stage 4 Ogier 4 seconds faster
Stage 5 Ogier 21 seconds faster
Stage 6 Loeb 3 seconds faster
Stage 7 Ogier 15 seconds faster
Stage 8 Well let's not go there .....
Elfyn am byth!!
SAGTAFF said:
Apology for the long post accepted but to me you have proved that the only driver who can live with Ogier is Loeb and with him the sport would be much stronger as without him, Ogier will walk it. Loeb/Citroen versus Ogier/VW for the entire season would be more watering and I am not sure who would win. Based on the facts you have presented, they are pretty equally matched. Such a shame he binned it - if one of theme was going to bin it then my money would have been on Ogier.
Elfyn am byth!!
And that's precisely my point, I'm not convinced Loeb can live with Ogier on Tarmac. No doubt some more wheel time and a host of improvements/developments to the DS3 WRC would get them there or thereabouts, but I tend to think (and always have done) that Ogier IS the real deal. Whether he goes on to take 10 WRC championships remains to be seen. But I agree, Loeb back for a full season would be something to savour ! ! Elfyn am byth!!
RyanTank said:
I knew Kubica wouldn't last the whole weekend (not counting yesterday's dnf, electric gremlins don't count) can't see what starts the accident, but he's clearly out of control coming into view before hitting stuff.
http://youtu.be/UKycs3orteI
No real surprise, just further proof he's not learnt anything from last years multiple offs. Once again, lucky not to have hurt himself, his co-driver or taken out a wall of spectators. All very easy to say from the comfort of my keyboard, I know, but it's becoming rather tedious now.http://youtu.be/UKycs3orteI
As I've said on here before, no one is questioning the blokes outright speed or talent, but he constantly looks like he's about to bin it on just about every high speed corner he drives. It's shame someone can't reign him in and get him finishing on the podium consistently.
Just looks like Bob was way too hot into another corner, he had another moment today and ending up nearly felling a few trees..
Meeke and Loeb both showed the fine line they slide on in such slippy conditions. Both a bit unlucky really.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qoiku9rz-eY
Meeke and Loeb both showed the fine line they slide on in such slippy conditions. Both a bit unlucky really.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qoiku9rz-eY
I thinks it's almost a case of he forgets he's in a WRCar and not an F1 car with its superior braking. And by the time he realises it's too late.
Or the hand could be costing him that vital bit of reaction time other drivers get to help pull a car back from the brink. He drives almost one handed too
Or the hand could be costing him that vital bit of reaction time other drivers get to help pull a car back from the brink. He drives almost one handed too
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