The 2015 Rallying Thread
Discussion
confucuis said:
I wonder would Volkswagen throw him a car. It could be a smart move. The closest none VW driver to challenge Ogier is now without a seat. Get him a Polo and then the Constructors is almost locked down already!
With VW saving for the impending 'unexpected costs' lets hope their cost saving doesn't extend to WRC as well. Could end up like BTCC at this rate. Fantastic to see Citroen committing, I really did fear they would pull out for good. Shame they won't be around in 2016, but it will be worth it in the long run. Hopefully Meeke can get a few drives in to keep rally sharp. Ostberg is pretty much nailed on for an M-sport Ford drive.
The VW budget for the WRC is safe for a few years yet, so there is no problem there. They won't be going to 4 cars though, they really don't need to!
As for Toyota the project is such a mess, that I doubt it will happen
The VW budget for the WRC is safe for a few years yet, so there is no problem there. They won't be going to 4 cars though, they really don't need to!
As for Toyota the project is such a mess, that I doubt it will happen
I cant see Meeke at M-Sport next year, unless its a bit part programme of some sorts. Malcolm wont have the budget to pay him for a season without a big backer/sponsor. Something as yet not announced if its happening.
It'd be great to see a satellite Citroen team run like the Kronos years. However I don't think Kronos is even running these days.
Peugeot Sport even took over the running of the ERC/IRC running of the 208 from Sainteloc. Wonder if that programme is getting cut too?
I'm a little perplexed at why they put so much pressure on Mads and Kris to get the 2nd place manufacturers championship locked in if they were always going to be pulling out for the season. Had it been for the championship then I'd get it, but for 2nd or 3rd, not so much.
Hopefully Meeke can keep his seat and do bit parts as they have expressed an interest in doing, along with the development of the 2017 car. maybe they stand more of a chance of taking the fight to VW if Kris has a car set up to him, not one he's had to adapt too. At the end of the day any Citroen of the last 10 years has been a Loeb car and every other driver has to learn his style. that's something that stuck whenever Mads and Kris were interviewed early on even to this season, they both kept saying "I'm still learning this car on this surface".
It'd be great to see a satellite Citroen team run like the Kronos years. However I don't think Kronos is even running these days.
Peugeot Sport even took over the running of the ERC/IRC running of the 208 from Sainteloc. Wonder if that programme is getting cut too?
I'm a little perplexed at why they put so much pressure on Mads and Kris to get the 2nd place manufacturers championship locked in if they were always going to be pulling out for the season. Had it been for the championship then I'd get it, but for 2nd or 3rd, not so much.
Hopefully Meeke can keep his seat and do bit parts as they have expressed an interest in doing, along with the development of the 2017 car. maybe they stand more of a chance of taking the fight to VW if Kris has a car set up to him, not one he's had to adapt too. At the end of the day any Citroen of the last 10 years has been a Loeb car and every other driver has to learn his style. that's something that stuck whenever Mads and Kris were interviewed early on even to this season, they both kept saying "I'm still learning this car on this surface".
If Kris was younger I'm almost certain he'd like to stay with Citroen to test & develop the new WRCar - (whatever it is) with hopefully the occasional outing in a DS3 WRC/ R5 in selected rounds. Similar to Ogier in 2012 with VW, whilst competing in VW run Fabia S2000's
Rememeber, Kris has done a lot of testing & development work for the PSA group over the years - and is a qualified engineer. Can he afford to spend a year out of action?
But, good to see Citroen have picked the WRC over the WTCC, which is a farce of a series.
And, Loeb signing for Peugeot - not a loan, but cutting of ties with Citroen; though they are both PSA Group. Not a lot different from a driver going from Audi to Porsche....
Rememeber, Kris has done a lot of testing & development work for the PSA group over the years - and is a qualified engineer. Can he afford to spend a year out of action?
But, good to see Citroen have picked the WRC over the WTCC, which is a farce of a series.
And, Loeb signing for Peugeot - not a loan, but cutting of ties with Citroen; though they are both PSA Group. Not a lot different from a driver going from Audi to Porsche....
RyanTank said:
I cant see Meeke at M-Sport next year, unless its a bit part programme of some sorts. Malcolm wont have the budget to pay him for a season without a big backer/sponsor. Something as yet not announced if its happening.
It'd be great to see a satellite Citroen team run like the Kronos years. However I don't think Kronos is even running these days.
Peugeot Sport even took over the running of the ERC/IRC running of the 208 from Sainteloc. Wonder if that programme is getting cut too?
I'm a little perplexed at why they put so much pressure on Mads and Kris to get the 2nd place manufacturers championship locked in if they were always going to be pulling out for the season. Had it been for the championship then I'd get it, but for 2nd or 3rd, not so much.
Hopefully Meeke can keep his seat and do bit parts as they have expressed an interest in doing, along with the development of the 2017 car. maybe they stand more of a chance of taking the fight to VW if Kris has a car set up to him, not one he's had to adapt too. At the end of the day any Citroen of the last 10 years has been a Loeb car and every other driver has to learn his style. that's something that stuck whenever Mads and Kris were interviewed early on even to this season, they both kept saying "I'm still learning this car on this surface".
Kronos still running : It'd be great to see a satellite Citroen team run like the Kronos years. However I don't think Kronos is even running these days.
Peugeot Sport even took over the running of the ERC/IRC running of the 208 from Sainteloc. Wonder if that programme is getting cut too?
I'm a little perplexed at why they put so much pressure on Mads and Kris to get the 2nd place manufacturers championship locked in if they were always going to be pulling out for the season. Had it been for the championship then I'd get it, but for 2nd or 3rd, not so much.
Hopefully Meeke can keep his seat and do bit parts as they have expressed an interest in doing, along with the development of the 2017 car. maybe they stand more of a chance of taking the fight to VW if Kris has a car set up to him, not one he's had to adapt too. At the end of the day any Citroen of the last 10 years has been a Loeb car and every other driver has to learn his style. that's something that stuck whenever Mads and Kris were interviewed early on even to this season, they both kept saying "I'm still learning this car on this surface".
http://www.kronosracing.com/index.php?lang=EN
It's possible (very possible) confirmation of Citroen's position in this year WRC championship may have been what the board were waiting on prior to giving the go ahead for the all new 2017 WRC car.
Meeke would be well advised to hang on in there and accept a limited program for 2016, it'll give him a chance to have some decent input into the new car.
Citroen rarely make bad new from the ground up WRC cars, 2017 could be Meeke's best chance of a title challenge.
Meeke and Stéphane Lefebvre would make a good pairing (if Neuville isn't seeking alternative emplyoment by then...)
Very sad that RAC rally canned this year but not surprised at one of main reasons- Forestry Commission not happy about the amount of litter dropped after previous events . At the last rally I attended here on N York Moors many of the spectators were a bloody disgrace. I brought back as much litter the b
ds had dropped as I could from the stage but I had to leave plenty . Saplings snapped to improve view , barbecues , effing and blinding at max volume , terrible parking - a bunch of f***ng idiots spoiling it for the rest .
Nothing new- last time the 'real' RAC was held it was just as bad- gates ripped off hinges, fences pulled down etc
ds had dropped as I could from the stage but I had to leave plenty . Saplings snapped to improve view , barbecues , effing and blinding at max volume , terrible parking - a bunch of f***ng idiots spoiling it for the rest .Nothing new- last time the 'real' RAC was held it was just as bad- gates ripped off hinges, fences pulled down etc
I think it was due to lack of entries. The reason they can no longer use the Yorkshire forests is because of the 'litter problem'. Before that, the FC in Yorkshire didn't want fireworks set off in their forests, didn't want overnight parking, etc there is always some reason they use to pull access. The just don't want rallying in their forests; leisure and mountain biking is more their thing.
coppice said:
Very sad that RAC rally canned this year but not surprised at one of main reasons- Forestry Commission not happy about the amount of litter dropped after previous events .
Erm no. The only reason it was canned this year was that they didn't have enough entries to make it financially viable. If events were cancelled on the basis of litter then Rally GB would've been canned long ago.
Day 2 Rally Deutschland. Saturday August 22nd 2015. SS 9 - Grafschaft 1, first car due through shortly after 7.30 am.
Picnic chairs are the new German bathing towels, 6-7 keen German spectators have set up camp on one of the 90 rights after a long straight.They've cleary been there some time....
They're chatting amongst themselves, not causing any problems or indeed offence, buuuut, scattered around beneath their picnic chairs are 15-20 discarded empty beer bottles. "Peasants" I thought, here we are in the heart of the countryside and you're going to litter the place by leaaving 20 empty glass beer bottles in the middle of a field.
Despite looking well ensconced, they left after the first 20 cars had gone through. But before doing so they folded their chairs up, and one by one they picked up every empty beer bottle and placed them in their rucksacks before leaving ......
Just what's wrong with us Brits and litter ????
Picnic chairs are the new German bathing towels, 6-7 keen German spectators have set up camp on one of the 90 rights after a long straight.They've cleary been there some time....
They're chatting amongst themselves, not causing any problems or indeed offence, buuuut, scattered around beneath their picnic chairs are 15-20 discarded empty beer bottles. "Peasants" I thought, here we are in the heart of the countryside and you're going to litter the place by leaaving 20 empty glass beer bottles in the middle of a field.
Despite looking well ensconced, they left after the first 20 cars had gone through. But before doing so they folded their chairs up, and one by one they picked up every empty beer bottle and placed them in their rucksacks before leaving ......
Just what's wrong with us Brits and litter ????
Alex Langheck said:
I think it was due to lack of entries. The reason they can no longer use the Yorkshire forests is because of the 'litter problem'. Before that, the FC in Yorkshire didn't want fireworks set off in their forests, didn't want overnight parking, etc there is always some reason they use to pull access. The just don't want rallying in their forests; leisure and mountain biking is more their thing.
Sorry but you are talking balls;it is nothing to do with finding reasons to 'pull access' but rather the FC having good reasons to deny it . Fireworks- in a bloody forest ? Has it not occurred to you that this might present a teeny bit of a fire risk ? Overnight parking - if the idiots who bring and discard bbqs ,light fires and make a hell of a noise by driving like tossers in the small hours didn't spoil it for the rest of us it shouldn't be a problem. Motor sport still takes place - certainly it does in the forest 5 minutes walk from my house but in my experience the scrambling bike folk know how to behave . Allyc85 said:
Litter is why they can't use the forests that the competitors who haven't entered, want to use. So litter IS mostly the reason why the RAC isn't running. Bloody ridiculous. The scum that leave it need their hands chopping off..
Really? Last time Yorkshire was used a lot of competitors complained that it was too rough. The same competitors complained about the road mileage, hence the more compact event in 2014 (and 2015). The mystery is why these competitors haven't entered an event which is in the format they said they wanted. Indeed some of them are bemoaning the fact that it's no longer a 4 day event that goes all over the north! It is interesting that the FC still allow the Malton and Trackrod events to run in Yorkshire. I'd guess the same people spectate as on the RAC yet litter isn't seemingly an issue on these events? How odd.
I really don't understand the mentality of people who think it's ok to dump litter in forests. Is it really that hard to take a bin bag or carrier bag with you to clear up your crap?
coppice said:
Sorry but you are talking balls;it is nothing to do with finding reasons to 'pull access' but rather the FC having good reasons to deny it . Fireworks- in a bloody forest ? Has it not occurred to you that this might present a teeny bit of a fire risk ? Overnight parking - if the idiots who bring and discard bbqs ,light fires and make a hell of a noise by driving like tossers in the small hours didn't spoil it for the rest of us it shouldn't be a problem. Motor sport still takes place - certainly it does in the forest 5 minutes walk from my house but in my experience the scrambling bike folk know how to behave .
Nothing different from RallyGB - yet that is never under threat. Overnight parking, fireworks, BBQs, litter etc all happen on RallyGB... People are asked to take their litter home, not to light fireworks, etc but they still do it. Yet, I've never heard of the FC in Wales pulling access. It's been apparent for quite a few yeas that the FC in Yorkshire would rather not have rallying in their forests, which is why the allocation is now down to a few events; the Trackrod, Riponian & Malton Forest. How long before they get the chop?
Well you may infer that but I have never formed that impression when talking to FC. But I am acutely conscious of the fact that whilst local orienteering , fox hunting , shooting , mountain biking , walkers and other leisure users behave well when in an around our forest a worrying minority of rally followers can behave like animals. If you are in the public eye (such as when you are revving the nuts off your McRae liveried Impreza because you think it will impress people , even in a quiet village ) then you ought to behave- and many rally followers don't .
Litter is a big issue for us on rally GB. over the 2 days I did this year I was on quite densely packed spectator areas. with spectators of all nationalities. 80% of these spectators behaved themselves and took their litter home. the other 20%, well to call them pissed up little kids would pretty much sum it up. id estimate, just passed their test age and out for a joyride through the car parks. All the foreigners tidies up after themselves, and the Irish made sure their lot left the stage in a respectable state 
Rally GB put skips at the head of most of the spectator areas, as well as portaloos, and if you could see the state of them at the end of a day!
. Despite these skips being there and practically empty, there were bags of rubbish strewn all over the stage and car parks, even bags laying against the empty skips 
were never going to stop people littering, setting fireworks or bbq's. we just have to police it as best we can.
A polite message to a group of youths chucking bangers about every 5 minutes, terrifying the little kids not far away worked for me. and a polite conversation with another group who had brought cases of cider and a BBQ with them to keep it all under control and to please take it with them also worked.
Quite often its how you approach and speak to these people that gets the best results.
Regardign the forestry commisions, the easiest way for them to close their forests to rallying is to keep increasing the prices they charge the organisers, this year it is £683 per mile. Its no wonder events are running shorter and shorter stages, and multi use ones!
Rally GB put skips at the head of most of the spectator areas, as well as portaloos, and if you could see the state of them at the end of a day!
. Despite these skips being there and practically empty, there were bags of rubbish strewn all over the stage and car parks, even bags laying against the empty skips were never going to stop people littering, setting fireworks or bbq's. we just have to police it as best we can.
A polite message to a group of youths chucking bangers about every 5 minutes, terrifying the little kids not far away worked for me. and a polite conversation with another group who had brought cases of cider and a BBQ with them to keep it all under control and to please take it with them also worked.
Quite often its how you approach and speak to these people that gets the best results.
Regardign the forestry commisions, the easiest way for them to close their forests to rallying is to keep increasing the prices they charge the organisers, this year it is £683 per mile. Its no wonder events are running shorter and shorter stages, and multi use ones!
MSA Website said:
MSA announces 2015 Forestry Commission fees
The Motor Sports Association (MSA) has confirmed the fees that will be charged for providing access to the Forestry Estate for MSA-permitted rally events from 1 January to 31 December 2015. Prices have increased in line with the Retail Price Index (RPI) at 2.3%.
The rates per mile for 2015 are:
Special Stage Rallies (including Multi-Use and Historic Special Stage Rallies)
Primary usage: £683.00
Secondary usage: £405.00
Endurance Road Rallies
Primary usage: £208.00
Secondary usage: £129.00
National Cross Country Events (Tyres Restricted) (Competitive Safari or Hill Rally)
Primary usage
Category A roads: £213.00
Category B roads and other surfaces: £69.00
Secondary usage
Category A roads: £103.00
Category B roads and other surfaces: £35.00
Road Rallies
Primary usage: £103.00
Secondary usage: £56.00
Navigation Rallies
Primary usage: £56.00
Secondary usage: £56.00
Rally Time Trial
Rally Time Trial (multiple usage, maximum of five passes): £1492.00
Forestry Commission Permit
International Rally of GB: £3107.00
British Rally Championship rounds: £1244.00
Other events: £343.00
Right to Roam Closure Order
CROW Act 2001: £132.00
The Motor Sports Association (MSA) has confirmed the fees that will be charged for providing access to the Forestry Estate for MSA-permitted rally events from 1 January to 31 December 2015. Prices have increased in line with the Retail Price Index (RPI) at 2.3%.
The rates per mile for 2015 are:
Special Stage Rallies (including Multi-Use and Historic Special Stage Rallies)
Primary usage: £683.00
Secondary usage: £405.00
Endurance Road Rallies
Primary usage: £208.00
Secondary usage: £129.00
National Cross Country Events (Tyres Restricted) (Competitive Safari or Hill Rally)
Primary usage
Category A roads: £213.00
Category B roads and other surfaces: £69.00
Secondary usage
Category A roads: £103.00
Category B roads and other surfaces: £35.00
Road Rallies
Primary usage: £103.00
Secondary usage: £56.00
Navigation Rallies
Primary usage: £56.00
Secondary usage: £56.00
Rally Time Trial
Rally Time Trial (multiple usage, maximum of five passes): £1492.00
Forestry Commission Permit
International Rally of GB: £3107.00
British Rally Championship rounds: £1244.00
Other events: £343.00
Right to Roam Closure Order
CROW Act 2001: £132.00
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