Leave UK, Work in Europe
Discussion
I've been thinking more and more about upping sticks from the UK and looking for a job in Europe. I work in IT as a head of department/project manager/lean-sigma bod, and have a background initially as a developer, and later on as a business analyst.
I speak French to school-level, and am trying to learn (slowly but surely!) Italian and Spanish.
My preference would be either Switzerland or Italy, both of which I adore for many reasons.
Is there such a thing as a job in Europe that does not require the home language to a high level?
Has anyone done similar? Pitfalls? Advantages?
Any advice much appreciated, thanks.
I speak French to school-level, and am trying to learn (slowly but surely!) Italian and Spanish.
My preference would be either Switzerland or Italy, both of which I adore for many reasons.
Is there such a thing as a job in Europe that does not require the home language to a high level?
Has anyone done similar? Pitfalls? Advantages?
Any advice much appreciated, thanks.
evenflow said:
I've been thinking more and more about upping sticks from the UK and looking for a job in Europe. I work in IT as a head of department/project manager/lean-sigma bod, and have a background initially as a developer, and later on as a business analyst.
I speak French to school-level, and am trying to learn (slowly but surely!) Italian and Spanish.
My preference would be either Switzerland or Italy, both of which I adore for many reasons.
Is there such a thing as a job in Europe that does not require the home language to a high level?
Has anyone done similar? Pitfalls? Advantages?
Any advice much appreciated, thanks.
Not only is English the language of business across Europe,I speak French to school-level, and am trying to learn (slowly but surely!) Italian and Spanish.
My preference would be either Switzerland or Italy, both of which I adore for many reasons.
Is there such a thing as a job in Europe that does not require the home language to a high level?
Has anyone done similar? Pitfalls? Advantages?
Any advice much appreciated, thanks.
almost all IT in Europe happens in English. Blame the Americans.
In my experience, you'll only need the native language once you leave the office.
What skills have you got that the company can't find locally ?
If you are a UK passport holder, migrating for work across the EU
can be pretty straightforward.
I left the Uk to live and work in Switzerland. First in Zurich, then I moved to live in Bern but work across the Rosti (literally!) just outside Neuchatel, then I lived there swell before moving back to Bern. Business language is always English and mostly you find your working business language is English, but sometimes you find yourself in meetings with local workforce or you are encouraged to try and converse in the local lingo. If you are just situated in the German or French bit of Swizterland thats mostly fine...pick up HochD or French as you go. If, however, you end up straddling the Rosti then be prepared to spend your life confused to f
k as your working day is spent flicking between English and French and then you have to grapple with Bern-Deutsch before/after work.
I do most of my work currently now in Italy, indeed I have been pretty much permanently there for the last 6 months. Most professional people speak English and again engineering business language is English. Far fewer people than in Germany or Switzerland however, outside of the work speak English. You need to pick up Italian really, esp. outside of the cities. All serving staff however, will speak English in the cities. Ive worked quite a lot in Firenze, Pisa, Rome and the Abruzzo region.
Ive also lived and worked in Germany and most likely I will be back there permanently in a few months. English is very well spoken, business is always English and a lot of society speaks English and will do so happily to you in normal life.
I have found the joy of this life is simply in pitching up. New language, new culture, new job and then making a go of it. I turned up in Zurich on a Sunday in the middle of January. Never been before. Didn't speak German. Knew nothing about the Swiss or Switzerland except presuming that Zurich would be a bit like London because its a standard Western European capital but a bit colder. Walking out of Hauptbahnhoff onto Bahnhoffstrasse to -5, snowing and basically snow tumbrils drifting past on an empty street and everywhere being shut (3rd most expensive street in Europe, Zurich equivalent to Oxford street) just utterly confused the hell out of me. Only place open was Starbucks.
I did the same in Munich, pitched up, cracked on.
Same in Italy.
Get registered on Englishforum.ch for Swiss ex pats and learning up on Switzerland. Toytown for German living and ex pat stuff. Internations etc.
Zurich ex pat hub is Paddy O Reillys and Oliver Twist. Bavaria/Munich ex pat hub is Ned Kellys/Killians & Kennedys. Rome ex pat hub is Flanagans I think. There are a cpl of Irish/Brit pubs in Firenze, not sure about Turin, Milan has an English presence, esp Juve affiliated. Pisa doesn't really do ex pats. Steffan is in Lucca, he knows best for there. Abruzzo in general then head for the town of Avezzano, massive Brit and ex pat presence there due to the space and comms centre. Pescara is very Italian but gorgeous. fk Naples - avoid like the plague.
Doing it is a complete challenge. I love it. Oh, you also earn more, pay less tax and the quality of life is in a different league!
Ive also lived & worked sort of in France for over 20yrs, but not professionally. Only place Id do that is Toulouse - big ex pat community down there because of Airbus. Bordeau and Acquitaine has a very large ex pat presence.
k as your working day is spent flicking between English and French and then you have to grapple with Bern-Deutsch before/after work.I do most of my work currently now in Italy, indeed I have been pretty much permanently there for the last 6 months. Most professional people speak English and again engineering business language is English. Far fewer people than in Germany or Switzerland however, outside of the work speak English. You need to pick up Italian really, esp. outside of the cities. All serving staff however, will speak English in the cities. Ive worked quite a lot in Firenze, Pisa, Rome and the Abruzzo region.
Ive also lived and worked in Germany and most likely I will be back there permanently in a few months. English is very well spoken, business is always English and a lot of society speaks English and will do so happily to you in normal life.
I have found the joy of this life is simply in pitching up. New language, new culture, new job and then making a go of it. I turned up in Zurich on a Sunday in the middle of January. Never been before. Didn't speak German. Knew nothing about the Swiss or Switzerland except presuming that Zurich would be a bit like London because its a standard Western European capital but a bit colder. Walking out of Hauptbahnhoff onto Bahnhoffstrasse to -5, snowing and basically snow tumbrils drifting past on an empty street and everywhere being shut (3rd most expensive street in Europe, Zurich equivalent to Oxford street) just utterly confused the hell out of me. Only place open was Starbucks.
I did the same in Munich, pitched up, cracked on.
Same in Italy.
Get registered on Englishforum.ch for Swiss ex pats and learning up on Switzerland. Toytown for German living and ex pat stuff. Internations etc.
Zurich ex pat hub is Paddy O Reillys and Oliver Twist. Bavaria/Munich ex pat hub is Ned Kellys/Killians & Kennedys. Rome ex pat hub is Flanagans I think. There are a cpl of Irish/Brit pubs in Firenze, not sure about Turin, Milan has an English presence, esp Juve affiliated. Pisa doesn't really do ex pats. Steffan is in Lucca, he knows best for there. Abruzzo in general then head for the town of Avezzano, massive Brit and ex pat presence there due to the space and comms centre. Pescara is very Italian but gorgeous. f
k Naples - avoid like the plague.Doing it is a complete challenge. I love it. Oh, you also earn more, pay less tax and the quality of life is in a different league!
Ive also lived & worked sort of in France for over 20yrs, but not professionally. Only place Id do that is Toulouse - big ex pat community down there because of Airbus. Bordeau and Acquitaine has a very large ex pat presence.
With your skill set and ambition/motivation to work in Europe, I would be seeking out expat positions first and foremost. I.e. A UK employer that will position you (& family) in Europe and cover x,y,z of costs.
I did the south of France this way for a year and enjoyed the experience but after 1 year I was ready to move on and am based in the middle/Far East now which I love.
There are lots of advantages to being placed on an expat package as opposed to simply moving off your own back. If you still adore Italy/Switzerland after your contract/stint comes to an end then seek out another role in country.
I know Tuscany area caters to your work, pharma related if memory serves....
I did the south of France this way for a year and enjoyed the experience but after 1 year I was ready to move on and am based in the middle/Far East now which I love.
There are lots of advantages to being placed on an expat package as opposed to simply moving off your own back. If you still adore Italy/Switzerland after your contract/stint comes to an end then seek out another role in country.
I know Tuscany area caters to your work, pharma related if memory serves....
How about a position with a UK employer which is home based, but with no specific criteria of where that home should be?
For example I work for a UK business consulting company but our clients are global, though mostly in Europe. We can live wherever we like within reason as we are home based and client visits are always going to involve travel anyway. It makes little difference if we live in the UK and fly to Paris for work or we live in Italy and travel to the same place.
I have British colleagues living in Thailand, Czech Republic and Spain currently.
For example I work for a UK business consulting company but our clients are global, though mostly in Europe. We can live wherever we like within reason as we are home based and client visits are always going to involve travel anyway. It makes little difference if we live in the UK and fly to Paris for work or we live in Italy and travel to the same place.
I have British colleagues living in Thailand, Czech Republic and Spain currently.
We had an itch to live and work abroad to kept an eye for jobs with such a possibility. Found a company in London looking to move staff over to Switzerland and were hiring for their new Swiss office. I applied after 2 interviews, tests etc, plus a free weekend in Switzerland (had never been before) then I joined. Luckily they company had a flat to use so I stayed there initially until I could find somewhere to live. But it was a bit strange jumping off the plane on a Sunday in a new country without the wife (who stayed in UK initially to see if I liked it first), and then start working on the Monday.
We lived in Switzerland for nearly 6 years. I don't have a degree and neither me nor my wife spoke any other languages. Wife learned to speak German when we got there, but I never had time (usual excuse for ex-pat not trying). We had a fantastic time and for the most of it we really did enjoy it. Great way of life, proper 9-5 job, 30 minute bus ride home (always on time), traveled around loads, did lots of mountain biking, got super fit and then our twins where born there. As with twins and a difficult pregnancy the Swiss medical insurance was a lifesaver, I'm not sure the end would have been so great if it wasn't for the best medical care system in the world (although almost had a heart attack when the Hospital accounts team said our medical insurance wouldn't pay for the children in neonatal unit, but luckily the Swiss canton would pick up the tab).
However Switzerland is very strict on rules, abide by them and you will be fine, try to be different and it won't be as enjoyable an experience. Most professional people speak English, although working in a company where we had something like 30 different nationalities it was quite difficult to mix. You do end up in the English speaking ex-pat world and we rarely integrated with Swiss people (they are friendly just don't expect them to invite you into their homes).
We have been back in the UK a couple of years and as we left the jobs market was really bad, and worse now. Getting a visa is also much harder as the Swiss have tightened their immigration laws again. Also lots of international companies have left or are winding down staff especially in the IT sector. Our office was shut this year and previous colleagues have not managed to get jobs e.g. BA, IT managers etc. However friends like me as developers are doing OK, as are the network guys.
Personally I say go for it, you will have a great time and life experience.
We lived in Switzerland for nearly 6 years. I don't have a degree and neither me nor my wife spoke any other languages. Wife learned to speak German when we got there, but I never had time (usual excuse for ex-pat not trying). We had a fantastic time and for the most of it we really did enjoy it. Great way of life, proper 9-5 job, 30 minute bus ride home (always on time), traveled around loads, did lots of mountain biking, got super fit and then our twins where born there. As with twins and a difficult pregnancy the Swiss medical insurance was a lifesaver, I'm not sure the end would have been so great if it wasn't for the best medical care system in the world (although almost had a heart attack when the Hospital accounts team said our medical insurance wouldn't pay for the children in neonatal unit, but luckily the Swiss canton would pick up the tab).
However Switzerland is very strict on rules, abide by them and you will be fine, try to be different and it won't be as enjoyable an experience. Most professional people speak English, although working in a company where we had something like 30 different nationalities it was quite difficult to mix. You do end up in the English speaking ex-pat world and we rarely integrated with Swiss people (they are friendly just don't expect them to invite you into their homes).
We have been back in the UK a couple of years and as we left the jobs market was really bad, and worse now. Getting a visa is also much harder as the Swiss have tightened their immigration laws again. Also lots of international companies have left or are winding down staff especially in the IT sector. Our office was shut this year and previous colleagues have not managed to get jobs e.g. BA, IT managers etc. However friends like me as developers are doing OK, as are the network guys.
Personally I say go for it, you will have a great time and life experience.
DJRC said:
I left the Uk to live and work in Switzerland. First in Zurich, then I moved to live in Bern but work across the Rosti (literally!) just outside Neuchatel, then I lived there swell before moving back to Bern. Business language is always English and mostly you find your working business language is English, but sometimes you find yourself in meetings with local workforce or you are encouraged to try and converse in the local lingo. If you are just situated in the German or French bit of Swizterland thats mostly fine...pick up HochD or French as you go. If, however, you end up straddling the Rosti then be prepared to spend your life confused to fk as your working day is spent flicking between English and French and then you have to grapple with Bern-Deutsch before/after work.
I do most of my work currently now in Italy, indeed I have been pretty much permanently there for the last 6 months. Most professional people speak English and again engineering business language is English. Far fewer people than in Germany or Switzerland however, outside of the work speak English. You need to pick up Italian really, esp. outside of the cities. All serving staff however, will speak English in the cities. Ive worked quite a lot in Firenze, Pisa, Rome and the Abruzzo region.
Ive also lived and worked in Germany and most likely I will be back there permanently in a few months. English is very well spoken, business is always English and a lot of society speaks English and will do so happily to you in normal life.
I have found the joy of this life is simply in pitching up. New language, new culture, new job and then making a go of it. I turned up in Zurich on a Sunday in the middle of January. Never been before. Didn't speak German. Knew nothing about the Swiss or Switzerland except presuming that Zurich would be a bit like London because its a standard Western European capital but a bit colder. Walking out of Hauptbahnhoff onto Bahnhoffstrasse to -5, snowing and basically snow tumbrils drifting past on an empty street and everywhere being shut (3rd most expensive street in Europe, Zurich equivalent to Oxford street) just utterly confused the hell out of me. Only place open was Starbucks.
I did the same in Munich, pitched up, cracked on.
Same in Italy.
Get registered on Englishforum.ch for Swiss ex pats and learning up on Switzerland. Toytown for German living and ex pat stuff. Internations etc.
Zurich ex pat hub is Paddy O Reillys and Oliver Twist. Bavaria/Munich ex pat hub is Ned Kellys/Killians & Kennedys. Rome ex pat hub is Flanagans I think. There are a cpl of Irish/Brit pubs in Firenze, not sure about Turin, Milan has an English presence, esp Juve affiliated. Pisa doesn't really do ex pats. Steffan is in Lucca, he knows best for there. Abruzzo in general then head for the town of Avezzano, massive Brit and ex pat presence there due to the space and comms centre. Pescara is very Italian but gorgeous. fk Naples - avoid like the plague.
Doing it is a complete challenge. I love it. Oh, you also earn more, pay less tax and the quality of life is in a different league!
Ive also lived & worked sort of in France for over 20yrs, but not professionally. Only place Id do that is Toulouse - big ex pat community down there because of Airbus. Bordeau and Acquitaine has a very large ex pat presence.
Great post k as your working day is spent flicking between English and French and then you have to grapple with Bern-Deutsch before/after work.I do most of my work currently now in Italy, indeed I have been pretty much permanently there for the last 6 months. Most professional people speak English and again engineering business language is English. Far fewer people than in Germany or Switzerland however, outside of the work speak English. You need to pick up Italian really, esp. outside of the cities. All serving staff however, will speak English in the cities. Ive worked quite a lot in Firenze, Pisa, Rome and the Abruzzo region.
Ive also lived and worked in Germany and most likely I will be back there permanently in a few months. English is very well spoken, business is always English and a lot of society speaks English and will do so happily to you in normal life.
I have found the joy of this life is simply in pitching up. New language, new culture, new job and then making a go of it. I turned up in Zurich on a Sunday in the middle of January. Never been before. Didn't speak German. Knew nothing about the Swiss or Switzerland except presuming that Zurich would be a bit like London because its a standard Western European capital but a bit colder. Walking out of Hauptbahnhoff onto Bahnhoffstrasse to -5, snowing and basically snow tumbrils drifting past on an empty street and everywhere being shut (3rd most expensive street in Europe, Zurich equivalent to Oxford street) just utterly confused the hell out of me. Only place open was Starbucks.
I did the same in Munich, pitched up, cracked on.
Same in Italy.
Get registered on Englishforum.ch for Swiss ex pats and learning up on Switzerland. Toytown for German living and ex pat stuff. Internations etc.
Zurich ex pat hub is Paddy O Reillys and Oliver Twist. Bavaria/Munich ex pat hub is Ned Kellys/Killians & Kennedys. Rome ex pat hub is Flanagans I think. There are a cpl of Irish/Brit pubs in Firenze, not sure about Turin, Milan has an English presence, esp Juve affiliated. Pisa doesn't really do ex pats. Steffan is in Lucca, he knows best for there. Abruzzo in general then head for the town of Avezzano, massive Brit and ex pat presence there due to the space and comms centre. Pescara is very Italian but gorgeous. f
k Naples - avoid like the plague.Doing it is a complete challenge. I love it. Oh, you also earn more, pay less tax and the quality of life is in a different league!
Ive also lived & worked sort of in France for over 20yrs, but not professionally. Only place Id do that is Toulouse - big ex pat community down there because of Airbus. Bordeau and Acquitaine has a very large ex pat presence.
You mentioned just turning up in these places, but I'm presuming you had work lined up before you went, or at least worked work a European company that sent you to the various places?
In Switzerland you need a job before you will get a residence permit. They haven't tightened the rules on immigration for EU people (yet) though. In theory you should be treated the same as a Swiss in terms of getting a job.
Despite offshoring and outsourcing, there still seem to be plenty of IT jobs and certainly at the big banks there's no need for any language other than English. Learning a bit of the local language helps outside of work, although I know people who have been here over 5 years and get by without speaking a word.
As said above, if you can deal with living in the rules, it's great place to be. The quality of life is fantastic, the pay is higher and the taxes lower and if you get bored of the lakes and mountains you can be in different countries all around within a couple of hours.
Yes it is more expensive, but I find it is offset by the wages/taxes. I like to think of how long it takes me to earn a pint of beer and it's less time in Zurich than it would be in London. Also there's zero inflation, so it feels like e.g. London is catching up with Switzerland in beer price terms.
I've been out here for over 5 years, so if you have any questions about living in Switzerland and specifically the Zurich area, I'm happy to answer them. AS DJRC said EnglishForum is a great resource. Just ignore the self important aholes who give opinions rather than facts and ignore their generally anti car stance. Speaking of cars (being PH and and all) the Swiss seem to be split pretty evenly between hating them and wanting the biggest most powerful variants of a model. IIRC Switzerland has the largest big engine model % out of total sales in Europe for the German manufacturers.
Despite offshoring and outsourcing, there still seem to be plenty of IT jobs and certainly at the big banks there's no need for any language other than English. Learning a bit of the local language helps outside of work, although I know people who have been here over 5 years and get by without speaking a word.
As said above, if you can deal with living in the rules, it's great place to be. The quality of life is fantastic, the pay is higher and the taxes lower and if you get bored of the lakes and mountains you can be in different countries all around within a couple of hours.
Yes it is more expensive, but I find it is offset by the wages/taxes. I like to think of how long it takes me to earn a pint of beer and it's less time in Zurich than it would be in London. Also there's zero inflation, so it feels like e.g. London is catching up with Switzerland in beer price terms.
I've been out here for over 5 years, so if you have any questions about living in Switzerland and specifically the Zurich area, I'm happy to answer them. AS DJRC said EnglishForum is a great resource. Just ignore the self important a
holes who give opinions rather than facts and ignore their generally anti car stance. Speaking of cars (being PH and and all) the Swiss seem to be split pretty evenly between hating them and wanting the biggest most powerful variants of a model. IIRC Switzerland has the largest big engine model % out of total sales in Europe for the German manufacturers.I'm in Luxembourg, so if your IT skills are in the financial services industry you'll find the transition very straight forward, as lots of companies out here with English speaking offices, it's a well worn path, but PM me if you want some agent contacts who can find you work out here from the UK
eyebeebe said:
johnfm said:
Would love to work in Switzerland.
Not enough jobs there for English qualified lawyers, but hope to find an in-house gig in a few years.
Not my area, but I do see roles for in house lawyers advertised on our intranet on a reasonably frequent basis (banking). Not enough jobs there for English qualified lawyers, but hope to find an in-house gig in a few years.
Edited by johnfm on Tuesday 13th January 00:01
crofty1984 said:
johnfm said:
Did the missus not enjoy it out there?
I was single at the time. Mrs Crofty unfortunately isn't particularly adventurous in that way (arguably, you could call that "sensible"!) and likes the UK. Plus we've just bought a house.I'd be gone tomorrow if I got a role overseas that ticked my boxes. Italy must have been decent (if northern Italy). Somewhere around Turin or Milan would be ace - reasonable drive to coast, lakes and Alps.
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