Is Cameron a chicken?

[Asterix]

MarshPhantom said:

Asterix said:

MarshPhantom said:

Asterix said:

MarshPhantom said:

Cameron insists the Greens should be there, how exactly are they relevant?

They have representation in the HoC - regardless of what I think of them, they should have a say.

Anyway, frankly, they should be on National TV. Everyone will get to see what a shower they are.

But they have no chance of winning the election.

Neither do the LibDems or UKIP but they should definitely share the platform.

You do realise Cameron is refusing to participate only in the head to head debate with Miliband, so this is irrelevant.

Ah, right. I don't blame him then. He needs the others to be able to add more context to any policy debates and back him up when Labour spout the usual drivel that nothing is their fault.

[ukwill]

MarshPhantom said:

You do realise Cameron is refusing to participate only in the head to head debate with Miliband, so this is irrelevant.

And that's because he would prefer a debate to include the other parties. As the incumbent, he has not a lot to gain and a lot to lose. Unsurprisingly, this is the nature politics.

All of this aside, a televised debate did sweet FA for the LDs - even though "Cleggmania" occured as a consequence of the last debates (none of which were one to one).

[MarshPhantom]

rover 623gsi said:

Straight from the horse's mouth...

1. “I absolutely believe in these debates and think they are great.” – David Cameron and Jeremy Thompson, Sky news, 14 April 2010

2. “I think it is great we are having these debates and I hope they go someway to restore some of the faith and some of the trust into our politics because we badly need that once again in this country.” – David Cameron, Leaders Debate, ITV, 15 April 2010

3. “Look, I’ve been calling for these debates for five years, I challenged Blair, I challenged Brown, I challenged when I was ahead in the polls, and when I was behind in the polls. I just think they are a good thing.” – David Cameron, Daily Telegraph, 17 April 2010

4. “I’ve always wanted these debates to happen. I mean they happen in every country. They even happen in Mongolia for heaven’s sake and it’s part of the modern age that we should be in.” – David Cameron, BBC3, 21 April 2010

5. “I think these debates are here to stay. They clearly engage people in politics which is what we need.” – David Cameron, News of the World, 2 May 2010

6. “If you want the TV debates to go ahead you have got to do it fairly between the main parties and look, having said I want them, having challenged people to have them and quite right, Sky saying let’s have them, it would have been feeble to find some excuse to back out so I thought we’ve got to stick at this, we’ve got to do it. It will be challenging, it was, but I think I came through them.” – David Cameron, Sky News, 3 May 2010

7. “You know we’ve been going on for years about let’s have these debates and I think it really vindicated having that. I think people will be asking themselves why on earth, what was all the fuss about? Why on earth didn’t we have these things before? We should have done and it’s great they’re underway now and I think we’ll have them in every election in the future and I think that’s a really good thing for our democracy.” – David Cameron, BBC Radio Manchester, 16 April 2014

8. “On TV debates, I’m in favour of them, I think they’re good and we should go on having them and I will certainly play my part in trying to make that happen.” – David Cameron, Coalition mid term review, 7th Jan 2012

9. “I think TV debates are good. I enjoyed them last time – particularly the last one.” – David Cameron, David Cameron, Press Association, 10th December 2012

10. (And finally – here’s a time when he criticised candidates for pulling out of the debates) – “Blair pulled out against, against Major and Major pulled out against Kinnock, Thatcher pulled out against Callaghan. I’ve just always believed that these need to happen. It’s good for democracy. It’s good to see.” – David Cameron and Allan Beswick, BBC Radio Manchester, 16 April 2014

...

Ok, so he's repeatedly said he's in favour of debates but I don't think there can be any doubt that by saying he will only take part in one debate - with the whole world and his (or her) dog involved as well - he is clearly trying to diminish their value and dilute their impact.

Good find.

[jogon]

It would be good to see Ed, Nick and Nige have a debate with an empty space for yellow Dave. Just because he doesn't want to take part doesn't mean the other major parties should be stopped.

Crack on I say I would certainly watch it.

[Elroy Blue]

rover 623gsi said:

Straight from the horse's mouth...

1. “I absolutely believe in these debates and think they are great.” – David Cameron and Jeremy Thompson, Sky news, 14 April 2010

2. “I think it is great we are having these debates and I hope they go someway to restore some of the faith and some of the trust into our politics because we badly need that once again in this country.” – David Cameron, Leaders Debate, ITV, 15 April 2010

3. “Look, I’ve been calling for these debates for five years, I challenged Blair, I challenged Brown, I challenged when I was ahead in the polls, and when I was behind in the polls. I just think they are a good thing.” – David Cameron, Daily Telegraph, 17 April 2010

4. “I’ve always wanted these debates to happen. I mean they happen in every country. They even happen in Mongolia for heaven’s sake and it’s part of the modern age that we should be in.” – David Cameron, BBC3, 21 April 2010

5. “I think these debates are here to stay. They clearly engage people in politics which is what we need.” – David Cameron, News of the World, 2 May 2010

6. “If you want the TV debates to go ahead you have got to do it fairly between the main parties and look, having said I want them, having challenged people to have them and quite right, Sky saying let’s have them, it would have been feeble to find some excuse to back out so I thought we’ve got to stick at this, we’ve got to do it. It will be challenging, it was, but I think I came through them.” – David Cameron, Sky News, 3 May 2010

7. “You know we’ve been going on for years about let’s have these debates and I think it really vindicated having that. I think people will be asking themselves why on earth, what was all the fuss about? Why on earth didn’t we have these things before? We should have done and it’s great they’re underway now and I think we’ll have them in every election in the future and I think that’s a really good thing for our democracy.” – David Cameron, BBC Radio Manchester, 16 April 2014

8. “On TV debates, I’m in favour of them, I think they’re good and we should go on having them and I will certainly play my part in trying to make that happen.” – David Cameron, Coalition mid term review, 7th Jan 2012

9. “I think TV debates are good. I enjoyed them last time – particularly the last one.” – David Cameron, David Cameron, Press Association, 10th December 2012

10. (And finally – here’s a time when he criticised candidates for pulling out of the debates) – “Blair pulled out against, against Major and Major pulled out against Kinnock, Thatcher pulled out against Callaghan. I’ve just always believed that these need to happen. It’s good for democracy. It’s good to see.” – David Cameron and Allan Beswick, BBC Radio Manchester, 16 April 2014

...

Ok, so he's repeatedly said he's in favour of debates but I don't think there can be any doubt that by saying he will only take part in one debate - with the whole world and his (or her) dog involved as well - he is clearly trying to diminish their value and dilute their impact.

You'll have the Cameron fanboys accusing you of being a cloth cap wearing communist for finding those.

[CrutyRammers]

He's weak, and thinks he's a much better operator than he is IMO.
Stop trying to be clever, and be honest, FFS.

[Einion Yrth]

CrutyRammers said:

He's weak, and thinks he's a much better operator than he is IMO.
Stop trying to be clever, and be honest, FFS.

The only job he's ever had was in PR. He doesn't know how to be honest.

[IainT]

ukwill said:

MarshPhantom said:

You do realise Cameron is refusing to participate only in the head to head debate with Miliband, so this is irrelevant.

And that's because he would prefer a debate to include the other parties. As the incumbent, he has not a lot to gain and a lot to lose. Unsurprisingly, this is the nature politics.

All of this aside, a televised debate did sweet FA for the LDs - even though "Cleggmania" occured as a consequence of the last debates (none of which were one to one).

It's all maneuvering to get the best possible outcome from a situation he can't gain much from.

I can completely see his point though to demand the inclusion of the likes of the Greens if there's an insistence at including UKIP. Similar in terms of parliamentary representation similarly positioned opposite to Liebour to take votes from them as UKIP are for the Tories. SNP and Plaid to represent their regions and take more votes from Liebour.

That's what the framing of the debate is about - getting the panel balanced to damage the opposition more than you're damaged yourself.

Having seven in the debate will make it singularly pointless thought and would be an utterly best-case for the Tories. as it'd be 2-5 in the right-left balance. Splitting the leftist vote more ways is a great thing for both UKIP and the Tories.

The whole concept of labeling someone 'chicken' is utterly childish though when what's going on is avoiding a battle on the opposition's chosen ground.


In my view either have the debate with all parties represented in parliament or just the three that hold most seats. Personally I'd go for the former.

[BlackLabel]

jogon said:

It would be good to see Ed, Nick and Nige have a debate with an empty space for yellow Dave. Just because he doesn't want to take part doesn't mean the other major parties should be stopped.

Crack on I say I would certainly watch it.

On the Daily Politics a few months ago someone said that doing the above may actually break ofcom rules and the Tories could launch a legal challenge to stop it. Something about giving all the parties equal coverage. I wonder if the same rules apply for a debate which isn't on tv and streamed online?

[WestyCarl]

Einion Yrth said:

The only job he's ever had was in PR. He doesn't know how to be honest.

This doesn't come down to PR though.
He (his team) have made an assessment it's better to be called a chicken than enter a no win debate on TV.

[jogon]

BlackLabel said:

On the Daily Politics a few months ago someone said that doing the above may actually break ofcom rules and the Tories could launch a legal challenge to stop it. Something about giving all the parties equal coverage. I wonder if the same rules apply for a debate which isn't on tv and streamed online?

He was given the opportunity to go, they could just put up a life size Pinocchio figure and stick a blue rosette on it.

[4v6]

jogon said:

He was given the opportunity to go, they could just put up a life size Pinocchio figure and stick a blue rosette on it.

A life size picture of a cock would be more accurate.

[anonymous-user]

jogon said:

It would be good to see Ed, Nick and NigeNicola Sturgeon have a debate with an empty space for yellow Dave. Just because he doesn't want to take part doesn't mean the other major parties should be stopped.

Crack on I say I would certainly watch it.

You seem to be confused about what the word "major" means.

[jogon]

Greg66 said:

You seem to be confused about what the word "major" means.

We shall see come May.

[Yazar]

Greg66 said:

jogon said:

It would be good to see Ed, Nick and Nige have a debate with an empty space for yellow Dave. Just because he doesn't want to take part doesn't mean the other major parties should be stopped.

Crack on I say I would certainly watch it.

You seem to be confused about what the word "major" means.

You are fully aware that Ofcom labelled UKIP a major party based on meeting the criteria of what constitutes a major party, so why troll post?

Shame that Cameron you fawn over is a chicken isn't it?

[anonymous-user]

Yazar said:

Greg66 said:

jogon said:

It would be good to see Ed, Nick and Nige have a debate with an empty space for yellow Dave. Just because he doesn't want to take part doesn't mean the other major parties should be stopped.

Crack on I say I would certainly watch it.

You seem to be confused about what the word "major" means.

You are fully aware that Ofcom labelled UKIP a major party based on meeting the criteria of what constitutes a major party, so why troll post?

I could not give a fk what Ofcom says. A party with two MPs, and limited prospects of improving on that number in May, is not a "major party" no matter how much one squeezes one's eyes shut and wishes hard.

I want to hear - and I want others to hear - what the leaders of the parties who have genuine prospects of forming the next Government have to say for themselves.

Farage is not in that group. By a country mile.

[Boydie88]

Well he's getting my vote if Cameron is a no show. Not that it matters, Tories will walk my constituency.

[Camoradi]

Any politician who thinks that 90 minutes of exposure on prime time TV will make them more popular has misjudged the public mood in spectacular fashion.

[Yazar]

Greg66 said:

I could not give a fk what Ofcom says. A party with two MPs, and limited prospects of improving on that number in May, is not a "major party" no matter how much one squeezes one's eyes shut and wishes hard.

I want to hear - and I want others to hear - what the leaders of the parties who have genuine prospects of forming the next Government have to say for themselves.

Farage is not in that group. By a country mile.

So rather than accepting a decision made by examining the same criterias that are set for all parties, you think you know best.

Instead of throwing your toys out of the pram, why don't you go and read the actual reasoning on the Ofcom site and then say exactly what you see wrong with them?

[RichB]

Frankly I'm bored by the whole thing. Are people are so gullible not to see that this whole issue is being fuelled by the TV companies and the BBC in particular because they want something like this to put on prime time TV instead of soaps, reality TV and repeats. In the UK we vote for a party not a personality (like in America) and I abhor the way we slowly following everything the US does. What will it achieve? We all know Farage talks a good talk, we all know MillerBand looks a bit odd, we all know Cleggy comes over as credible on stage. There's nothing to had from this for intelligent voters but everything for the minor people like Sturgeon and the Greens and most of all it's great TV for ITV and BBC.