Specialized - Are they the be all and end all?

Specialized - Are they the be all and end all?

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Greenish

Original Poster:

209 posts

117 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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Right... I appreciate that this is going to cause some debate however I am after a genuine overall opinion, both from current owners and non owners.

A long time ago and well before I got into cycling I used to think Spec were the best you could get. Years later and with much more experience on both off and on road, and my belief now is that Spec are still a fairly good make however are highly overrated and have become a bit of a status monopoliser based on millions spent on marketing as well as the general assumption of novice and new cyclists that they are the pinnacle of cycling. (When you bare in mind the amount of people turning to cycling in recent years that part of the market is significant). I also wonder how much of their wealth can be attributed to the American market. I can't help but look at their bikes and feel there is a huge premium placed upon them purely because of the brand, and more so than the likes of Trek and some of the Italian brands. Take their Venge for example. This seems to retail anywhere between £2500 and £5500 for a complete bike. So the average Venge being around £3500. However for that you generally get the frame plus Ultegra, but modest everything else. No amazing wheels, no great tyres, not a remarkable seat or bars. If I remember rightly the basic Venge comes with pretty much rubbish everything yet still retails at the £2500 price tag. I am sure there is much better value to be had, especially when you think of the various online offerings.

But then, you do see LOADS of Spec bikes being ridden by pro teams, national racing teams and it makes you wonder whether they really are, then, worth all the fuss. If Cav and other world class athletes are not only competing but leading the field on this bikes then surely the answer is that Spec are world class, top in research and development and producing bikes that enable today's best riders to exploit the absolute most they can from themselves.

In any case, whenever I peruse online at fairly high end bike shops, Sigma and Pedal Heaven being only two examples in the South, most are teeming with Spec bikes and merchandise, including the "concept fitting service" which looks great in images, but I am not convinced it is as high tech as it purports to be. I also know that Spec will only provide stock to retailers that will designate a large proportion of their display to Spec products, plus they have minumum requirements on in store square footage e.t.c. This all seems like serious business model's at work to make money to me, not a bespoke cycle manufacturer tailoring their services to customer's needs.

Are Specialized so good that they really are the obvious choice for the serious cyclist and is it time non believer's such as myself just accept that I am wrong?

BadgerBenji

3,524 posts

217 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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Love their shoes and helmets, but don't own a bike as they don't bring the single speed mountain bikes into the UK.

okgo

37,859 posts

197 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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They're obviously very decent bikes. Just like the top end giant, trek, cervelo, colnago, pinarello etc etc.

They are a marketing machine for sure but they're obviously all fantastic bikes and between them all of the brands above have won the big races at various points so I doubt there is much in it at the sharp end.

Alex Langheck

835 posts

128 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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I've got a HardRock disc, and my brother has the Allez Sport, can't fault them. However, I think other makes, particularly the German ones, you get better spec for your money. And, you see loads of them, plus the Trek, Giant, etc

Mr Gear

9,416 posts

189 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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There is a Specialized for almost every type of cyclist at almost every budget. But if you look hard enough, you will nearly always find something better for less money.

But if you head to your local bike shop, you won't see every other option available from every other brand, hence the continued popularity. Specialized are a safe bet for most buyers.

neenaw

1,212 posts

188 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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My experience of the Specialised road bikes is that they're overpriced for the spec and there's some huge gaps in the range.

The MTB's are good bikes. The hardtails probably aren't much different to other carbon or alloy framed hardtails but the full suspension bikes are good, I'm a huge fan of the Epic. Again the downside is that they're very expensive for the spec.

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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People have an affection for Specialised because they were one of the first mtb manufacturers out there and almost every one has at some point owned one. Now they are run by bean counters and seem to have lost that spirit, their legal team are grade a cocks and have made the Company a laughing stock a few times recently so people dont associate them with the pioneers of the sport anymore but corporate killjoys.

They make great bikes though, Cav made no secret when leaving Sky that he was pleased to be going back to Specialised and the Epic is still the best, and fastest UK trail centre bike I have ever ridden.

They are shockingly bad value for money though and I dont like how the spec of the carbon frames changes in the ranges, Fact 9, 10 and 11 like Trek's 400, 500, 600 series. So you get a downgraded frame and spec rather than just downgraded spec like other brands. So to get the top end Specialised, you have to pay top whack, you cant get the top end frame with 105, its Di2 or a frameset only.

When the £2k question came up last year I said to everyone "get the Cervelo R3" but got shot down because it "only has 105 and R500 wheels" but the fact was there is no R3.1 or R3.2 frame, thats the same frame that the £5k R3 buids use so ok, it has 105 and R500s because its a top quality frame and groupsets and wheels are easy upgrades... I just think that downgrading the frame and the spec is crap. Now only a handful of people here could tell you the difference between how a 9, 10 or 11 series frame rides but to me it still sucks.

If I could buy an S-Works Venge with 105 or afford the frameset, and if they accepted that they cant trademark the name of a small French town, I'd buy one...

Bungleaio

6,324 posts

201 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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I am by no means an expert but I like them. I started with some of their shoes then I bought a Sirrus a few years ago which has been great. I went past one of their concept stores a couple of months ago and was quite taken with their new Diverge range. The staff were friendly and helpful and I've ended up ordering a Diverge Comp Smartweld.

I had a look around and compared the spec against others but I'm happy with what I'm getting. The smart weld technology also appears to be unique to specialized, Whether it makes any difference or not I don't know but it sounds good.

I've also bought one of their S-works helmets so I've well and truly bought into the brand.

gazza285

9,780 posts

207 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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Bungleaio said:
The smart weld technology also appears to be unique to specialized, Whether it makes any difference or not I don't know but it sounds good.
Sounds very similar to the Kinesis smooth weld technology, who are rumoured to supply Specialized, according to internet gossip.

scherzkeks

4,460 posts

133 months

Monday 19th January 2015
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okgo said:
... just like ... colnago, pinarello etc
laugh



No.

madzo14

159 posts

121 months

Monday 19th January 2015
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I do like the new S-Works Tarmac but its a bit pricey at £6500

yellowjack

17,065 posts

165 months

Monday 19th January 2015
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gazza285 said:
Bungleaio said:
The smart weld technology also appears to be unique to specialized, Whether it makes any difference or not I don't know but it sounds good.
Sounds very similar to the Kinesis smooth weld technology, who are rumoured to supply Specialized, according to internet gossip.
Unlikely that the technology is flowing in that direction?

Specialized/Merida (Merida own 49% of Specialized) is one of the biggest manufacturers out there, behind only Giant, I think. The Merida factories produce frames and bikes for a large number of 'competitor' brands, too. Merida have long been at the forefront of Aluminium 'smooth weld' technology. My 2010 Road-Race 905 had a lovely 'flowing' finish to the welds which saw it mistaken for a carbon fibre frame on occasion. I thought that this "D’Alusio Smartweld Technology (tm)" tech was just another name for those old smooth finish welds, but it claims to be an entirely new concept in engineering the tubeset of an aluminium frame... http://www.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf/SmartWeld_...

As for the OP's original question?

I've never had a Specialized bike, nor any of their accessories or apparel. It simply does not appeal. I find the bikes to be a bit 'odd' looking, with some silly-high head tubes in the 'comfort' geometries, and dubious finish choices, to say the least. I've no doubt that they make good bikes, they have, after all, won plenty of prizes over the years. But I've simply never set eyes on a Specialized bike (that I could afford to own) that captured my heart in the same way as other brands/models have achieved. And that's your "first contact" with any bike, the picture in the advert/review, or the bike itself on display in the shop. If it doesn't hit you between they eyes, it'll get passed over. Then, added to that, I get the same impression as others here do, regarding the value-for-money aspect of ownership. Specialzed seem to like the "sneeky build-down" trick of specifying minor groupset items like a Tiagra cassette on a 105/Ultegra bike, and I don't like the Specialized/Trek (is it just the Septic brands that do this) policy of having different grades of frame for each spec level. You spend all that dosh developing a new method of bonding Ali tubes together, then use an inferior grade of alloy for the bulk of the frames you sell? Not very 'consumer friendly' to my mind.

It's a bit of a con-trick aimed at the less savvy buyer, or the rider on a tight budget, to be fair. All the marketing copy trumpets the low weight, high stiffness, high-tech 'solutions' of the flagship model, and the images in said copy will be of the same top-flight bikes, catching the eye with images and claims of tech, lightness, etc. Then there's the fact that I never really feel 'comfortable' with the 'Specialized Concept Store' concept. It's almost as if the brand is running scared of being displayed amongst rows of it's competitors, for fear of being "found out". The only brands you tend to see alongside Spesh are higher end, perhaps 'poorer' VFM, 'boutique' brands who aren't really competing for market share at an average buyer's budget level.

I'm not criticising the product, as I've never ridden any of their bikes. It's just that they don't, as a brand, appeal to me at all. For that reason, "ahm oot!". Silly, really, since I'm quite a fan of Merida, and I loved my old Road-Race 905 wobble

Fourmotion

1,026 posts

219 months

Monday 19th January 2015
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scherzkeks said:
okgo said:
... just like ... colnago, pinarello etc
laugh



No.
And why not? If you're comparing like for like in terms of price, why doesn't a spesh match either of those brands? Nibali, Martin, Contador seem happy with theirs.

Personally, I like their bikes. They used to offer great value for money (arguably not so great now), but they have a bike in just about any type and price point.

Their brand protection team are a bunch of twunts however.

TheInternet

4,703 posts

162 months

Monday 19th January 2015
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yellowjack said:
Specialzed seem to like the "sneeky build-down" trick of specifying minor groupset items like a Tiagra cassette on a 105/Ultegra bike
Quite a few brands do that. It is deceptive and irritating.

Greenish

Original Poster:

209 posts

117 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
gazza285 said:
Sounds very similar to the Kinesis smooth weld technology, who are rumoured to supply Specialized, according to internet gossip.
This is exactly my point though. Each brand develops their own USP, almost like having a USP is essential in making any waves in today's market. Most brands have mnemonics branded down the side of the seat stays or top tubes for various different "features" unique to them. Smart weld this, active technology that - surely these are very small characteristics that are enough to allow them to advertise a speciality, but in reality you would never notice. I had a Via Nirone a couple of years ago with "Bianchi Active Technology" down the seat stays - what's that and does it matter? My friend has a Trek which boasts a "Stepjoint" and "Ride Tuned Seatmast" - sounds very tech - is it?. Canyon have a VCLS seatpost. Looks great - would it really be that bad without it though? Are we not just being blinded with big words that matched up with their glossy pictures lure us into belief without question?

okgo

37,859 posts

197 months

Monday 19th January 2015
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scherzkeks said:
laugh



No.
Read what I wrote

At the top end they'll all be as good as you need to win the biggest races in the world, and they have

scherzkeks

4,460 posts

133 months

Monday 19th January 2015
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Fourmotion said:
And why not? If you're comparing like for like in terms of price, why doesn't a spesh match either of those brands? Nibali, Martin, Contador seem happy with theirs.

Personally, I like their bikes. They used to offer great value for money (arguably not so great now), but they have a bike in just about any type and price point.

Their brand protection team are a bunch of twunts however.
Because they (along with Giant) are the GM of the bike world and, unfortunately, have driven more interesting makes out of business, or have (or are) forced (ing) them into the same low-cost production model Specialized employs in order to financially compete.

Because they have an army of corporate lawyers beating up on the cycling community and attempting to trademark things they have no business trademarking.

Because they bully their dealers and inhibit competition.

Because they have pushed the 6-sizes-fit-all mentality, 'cause it maximizes profits.

Because they don't make even one product that comes near justifying its incredibly inflated price.

Because they are a typical American cutthroat business, producing products that fall somewhere on the spectrum between junk and average quality that no one should aspire to because the products are designed entirely on a computer, churned out on an assembly line, and designed from the ground up solely to maximize profit for Specialized.

Is there a place for them? Sure, but it should not be at the expense of diversity, especially when there are far finer things out there that are being snuffed out, simply because they don't follow this business model. It's like McCulture; it's slowly consuming the world, and you know everyone is worse off for it, but how do you stop it? laugh

upsidedownmark

2,120 posts

134 months

Monday 19th January 2015
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Short version, no.. none of the current manufacturers are the be all and and all, otherwise the rest would go steadily out of business!

Do they make perfectly decent bikes? Yes.
Are they the 'best'? Define your best - entirely arguable as we're seeing.

Personally I'd rather they spent a bit more on some of the other parts and stuck a tiagra cassette on - the damn things wear out, and I'm absolutely certain nobody here could tell if it's tiagra or dura ace in a true blind test (cassette that is - levers a different story). But there we go, that's just *my* preference.

okgo

37,859 posts

197 months

Monday 19th January 2015
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Ethics aside, you cannot argue that Specialized have not won nearly everything worth winning with their bikes, so they can't be that average...!

upsidedownmark

2,120 posts

134 months

Monday 19th January 2015
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Neither for nor against specalized, but the cynic in me asks how much of that is down to the bike, and how much down to getting their bike under the guy/girl that was going to win it anyway smile