Another cyclist dies in London

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Harji

2,196 posts

160 months

Monday 6th July 2015
quotequote all
walm said:
okgo said:
Does it occur to any of the haters on here that some of the people commuting by bike may at one point have been doing it by car and have seen the light of day?
At least when they were in a car they:
- Never broke the highway code.
- Paid for the roads.
- Wore sensible clothes.
- Never slowed down other drivers.
- Never got angry with other road users.
- Never posted on PH about other idiots on the road.
- 100% had insurance.
- Always had a roadworthy vehicle.
- Had training they never forgot, up to date with the latest changes and creating 100% error-free roadcraft.
- Never recorded something with their "cam", posted it to Youtube anticipating a circlejerk of congratulations from like-minded morons, only to realise their driving was less than perfect and that the average IQ of a Youtube commenter might cause them to want to stop the rotation of the earth so they can get off...

...oh wait...
Apart from your argument having more holes than swiss cheese, what the heck does it matter what people wear? Seriously, are you a Daily Mail reader from Tunbridge Wells? Because you bloody well sound like one.

heebeegeetee

28,591 posts

247 months

Monday 6th July 2015
quotequote all
Harji said:
Apart from your argument having more holes than swiss cheese, what the heck does it matter what people wear? Seriously, are you a Daily Mail reader from Tunbridge Wells? Because you bloody well sound like one.
At this juncture a reference would normally made to a flock of whoosh parrots, but - are you seriously saying that you couldn't see that was a joke?

Harji

2,196 posts

160 months

Monday 6th July 2015
quotequote all
heebeegeetee said:
Harji said:
Apart from your argument having more holes than swiss cheese, what the heck does it matter what people wear? Seriously, are you a Daily Mail reader from Tunbridge Wells? Because you bloody well sound like one.
At this juncture a reference would normally made to a flock of whoosh parrots, but - are you seriously saying that you couldn't see that was a joke?
No, let me be whooshed.

Magog

2,652 posts

188 months

Monday 6th July 2015
quotequote all
Mave said:
Ghibli said:
When he goes past the lad leaning on the wall you can see the instructor is signalling left, unless he is holding his arm out for some other reason ?

Edit: around the 13 second mark

Edited by Ghibli on Monday 6th July 22:02
Missed that, but I suspect that was to indicate he was pulling back in after passing the cars.
The kid also looks right (either a lifesaver or looking for the validation of his instructor) just as the car appears from the left. He doesn't seem to react to the appearance of the car at all.

saaby93

Original Poster:

32,038 posts

177 months

Monday 6th July 2015
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
ETA ok I see it now. The kid on the bike signalled left, the car began pulling out, the kid carried straight on, the car realised and got out of the way quick

Very good reactions from the car driver. Why didnt the guy with the camera say what happened?

Harji

2,196 posts

160 months

Tuesday 7th July 2015
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
saaby93 said:
ETA ok I see it now. The kid on the bike signalled left, the car began pulling out, the kid carried straight on, the car realised and got out of the way quick

Very good reactions from the car driver. Why didnt the guy with the camera say what happened?
This is why I think cyclists should never take their hands off the handlebar , the motorist should not pass the cyclist until they have passed the junction, I believe it's how things are done in Germany when my Mrs went for a tour round Berlin on a Segway, the instruction was to keep your hands on the bar even if taking a right and the motorists had a far better attitude in terms of anticipating what she may be or not, so no silly overtakes near junctions.

skyrover

12,668 posts

203 months

Tuesday 7th July 2015
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The Wookie said:
walm said:
Not me!
Although if you see a Land Rover limping around on three wheels - that's my brother.
Awesome, not just me that's done that then! hehe
Thirded... I happened to be doing 60mph when mine flew off


heebeegeetee

28,591 posts

247 months

Tuesday 7th July 2015
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
HC rule 172
The approach to a junction may have a ‘Give Way’ sign or a triangle marked on the road. You MUST give way to traffic on the main road when emerging from a junction with broken white lines across the road.

Incorrect signals given by other road users don't overide this rule. It is the driver's decision to proceed, it will be his fault if there is a collision.

saaby93

Original Poster:

32,038 posts

177 months

Tuesday 7th July 2015
quotequote all
heebeegeetee said:
HC rule 172
The approach to a junction may have a ‘Give Way’ sign or a triangle marked on the road. You MUST give way to traffic on the main road when emerging from a junction with broken white lines across the road.

Incorrect signals given by other road users don't overide this rule. It is the driver's decision to proceed, it will be his fault if there is a collision.
If worst comes to worst you could claim mitigation, that they signalled they were going to turn left
How do you feel about this one where there were no give way lines and a van only just gives way to a car that thinks it has right of way

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Luckily still no collision


anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 7th July 2015
quotequote all
Right, I'm getting confused now.

After reading the YT message board, the father is saying his son signalled to late and the father was signalling at the 13 second point and his road positioning showed he was not taking the first left.

When is the correct time to indicate/signal. I would have signalled after I had passed the first left.

I don't think the car should have pulled out, that aside, what's right, what's wrong ?

walm

10,609 posts

201 months

Tuesday 7th July 2015
quotequote all
Road position means nothing to a driver when you have your arm hanging out.
The dad is a moron.

There is isn’t time between the left turn and the roundabout to make an effective signal with your arm.
Sticking your arms out like they did is COMPLETELY STUPID.

The only thing I agree with is that you want to be right in the middle of the lane on the approach to give yourself more escape room when the car inevitably pulls out on you even if you DON’T signal.
Also being in the middle of the lane at the RB stops any tards behind you trying to overtake actually ON the RB, which no doubt many would try if you hug the gutter at that point.

saaby93

Original Poster:

32,038 posts

177 months

Tuesday 7th July 2015
quotequote all
Ghibli said:
Right, I'm getting confused now.

After reading the YT message board, the father is saying his son signalled to late and the father was signalling at the 13 second point and his road positioning showed he was not taking the first left.

When is the correct time to indicate/signal. I would have signalled after I had passed the first left.

I don't think the car should have pulled out, that aside, what's right, what's wrong ?
I wondered where posters had learned the father had signalled as it wasnt in the vid.
You have to question whether its neccesary or useful to signal at all, but in that situation to move out right and signal left is doubly indicating you're about to swing around into that left turn before the car.
If you're going to signal the earliest you can do it is after you're passing in front of tha car, but take a straight line leading up to that so there's no way it thinks you're swinging left. If it does pull out prepare to go behind it.
Would most cyclists signal left there?

Theres the same danger in a car too
Signal too early and someone is going to pull out in front of you


Edited by saaby93 on Wednesday 8th July 08:14

Dick Turpin

258 posts

106 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
I wondered where posters had learned the father had signalled as it wasnt in the vid.
You have to question whether its neccesary or useful to signal at all, but in that situation to move out right and signal left is doubly indicating you're about to swing around into that left turn before the car.
If you're going to signal the earliest you can do it is after you're passing in front of tha car, but take a straight line leading up to that so there's no way it thinks you're swinging left. If it does pull out prepare to go behind it.
Would most cyclists signal left there?

Theres the same danger in a car too
Signal too early and someone is going to pull out in front of you


Edited by saaby93 on Wednesday 8th July 08:14
I would have waited until past the junction before signalling, or I wouldn't have signalled at all.
Having said that, the driver should not have pulled out - I wouldn't have.

saaby93

Original Poster:

32,038 posts

177 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
Dick Turpin said:
I would have waited until past the junction before signalling, or I wouldn't have signalled at all.
Having said that, the driver should not have pulled out - I wouldn't have.
I'm not so sure.
The driver may have assessed there's just enough time for the driver to pull out anyway, certainly couldnt have pulled out any later.
However setting that aside the cyclist (we now learn both cyclists) has/have signalled to him theyre going to turn left, so there's a tacit agreement they're saying it's ok for him to pull out in front of them.
He's done what they've agreed, realised they didn't mean it, so got out the way quick.
Here's the photo again


If the father is looking full square at the driver and signalling left too, is it any surprise many drivers would take the offer?


Edited by saaby93 on Wednesday 8th July 08:46

JQ

5,691 posts

178 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
Dick Turpin said:
Having said that, the driver should not have pulled out - I wouldn't have.
and neither would I, and I suspect had it been a HGV coming towards him neither would the driver in the video.

walm

10,609 posts

201 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
I wondered where posters had learned the father had signalled as it wasnt in the vid.
Freeze it at 0.13 - you can clearly see the dad's outstretched hand.

saaby93

Original Poster:

32,038 posts

177 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
walm said:
saaby93 said:
I wondered where posters had learned the father had signalled as it wasnt in the vid.
Freeze it at 0.13 - you can clearly see the dad's outstretched hand.
I find my version of youtube/broadband skips frames. Is there a way to single step?
If it's at 13 thats even further in advance of the wrong junction

grimmac

1,412 posts

109 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
As is often the case, both parties in the wrong. Any collision would have involved them both.

Methinks the father cyclist is trying too hard to be textbook perfect.. But is IMO very guilty of confusing / misleading signals..

HC says
  • give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time
  • make sure your signals will not confuse others. If, for instance, you want to stop after a side road, do not signal until you are passing the road.

Equally the car should not emerge until it is clear, regardless of other road users signals, had it been a car or van coming up the road running a left indicator would they have still pulled out??

DanielJames

7,543 posts

167 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
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Looking at the comments on that video, which one of you is hornett83?

SonicShadow

2,452 posts

153 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
grimmac said:
As is often the case, both parties in the wrong. Any collision would have involved them both.
Your powers of deduction know no bounds.
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