Airfix ME109 build
Discussion
dr_gn said:
If you did want to add anything to the cockpit, you could add the angled rear bulkhead that fits in the fuselage behind the pilots head. The void that's currently there might be visible through the glazing. A simple bit of plastic might also be simple enough to make for an instrument panel.
Ahm, probably not. Had a go and got close but then it slipped through my fingers at about 100 fps, rattled off something and went over the event horizon. Spent two hours searching to no avail, literally turning furniture on its side by the end. I did find a library card I lost two years back and uncovered a Badger 250-1 airbrush (so old the vinyl hose is sticky to touch, but the can 'Contains CFC' still has pressure and it actually works, with water). Anyhow, think I'll stick to OOB, otherwise I could be here some time.Off to get the room in some semblance of order...
Info on the painting of the seat and pilot.
All paints are Citadel unless otherwise stated.
Both were primed in Incubi Darkness x2, painted, then finished with Purity Seal (satin varnish)
Seat:.
Highlighted in S.Polly Titanium (maybe, the label is too smudged to read, it's darker than the Pewter)
Washed in blue ink.
Pilot face and hands:
Bronze flesh, Flesh wash, then bleached bone highlights.
Harness:
straight bleached bone. The paint scheme has them as leather, but from pictures it looks a much paler webbing strap.
Uniform:
Highlighted in Elf Grey, washed in blue/black ink.
In hindsight a base of Enchanted Blue might have given a better match.
Boots:
Chaos black base coat, highlighted in Elf Grey and a darker blue/black wash.
Helmet:
Snakebite Leather, several attempts at washes but couldn't get a good effect. Ended up with just highlights in Bronze Flesh. I went with the paint scheme black for the goggles, though that seems unlikely for the time.
All paints are Citadel unless otherwise stated.
Both were primed in Incubi Darkness x2, painted, then finished with Purity Seal (satin varnish)
Seat:.
Highlighted in S.Polly Titanium (maybe, the label is too smudged to read, it's darker than the Pewter)
Washed in blue ink.
Pilot face and hands:
Bronze flesh, Flesh wash, then bleached bone highlights.
Harness:
straight bleached bone. The paint scheme has them as leather, but from pictures it looks a much paler webbing strap.
Uniform:
Highlighted in Elf Grey, washed in blue/black ink.
In hindsight a base of Enchanted Blue might have given a better match.
Boots:
Chaos black base coat, highlighted in Elf Grey and a darker blue/black wash.
Helmet:
Snakebite Leather, several attempts at washes but couldn't get a good effect. Ended up with just highlights in Bronze Flesh. I went with the paint scheme black for the goggles, though that seems unlikely for the time.
Edited by sad61t on Sunday 25th January 21:17
His hands look like he's been crucified like Jesus too on my phone screen which is usually fairly true to colour.
Can I ask if the use of Citadel paints is mainly for cost-containment at this stage? I only ask because I can fully understand that rationale but money aside colour is quite high up my own priority list and I expend much of my total effort getting the right colour for the application wherever possible. When much younger I was less fussy but most colour call-outs are miles off. For example, any WW2 British aeroplane using Humbrol 30 or whatever Tamiya recommend in lieu of RAF Dark Green sticks out like a sore thumb to me and to my mind at least it completely undermines the whole model.
It doesn't matter too much for interiors and pilots in this scale but I'd recommend colour matching the exterior paints. Pretty much all the RLM paint codes such as Schwartzgrün, Dunkelgrün, Hellblau etc. are readily available matched to historical paint chips, and they really do transform a model IMHO.
Can I ask if the use of Citadel paints is mainly for cost-containment at this stage? I only ask because I can fully understand that rationale but money aside colour is quite high up my own priority list and I expend much of my total effort getting the right colour for the application wherever possible. When much younger I was less fussy but most colour call-outs are miles off. For example, any WW2 British aeroplane using Humbrol 30 or whatever Tamiya recommend in lieu of RAF Dark Green sticks out like a sore thumb to me and to my mind at least it completely undermines the whole model.
It doesn't matter too much for interiors and pilots in this scale but I'd recommend colour matching the exterior paints. Pretty much all the RLM paint codes such as Schwartzgrün, Dunkelgrün, Hellblau etc. are readily available matched to historical paint chips, and they really do transform a model IMHO.
jamieduff1981 said:
His hands look like he's been crucified like Jesus too on my phone screen which is usually fairly true to colour.
Can I ask if the use of Citadel paints is mainly for cost-containment at this stage? I only ask because I can fully understand that rationale but money aside colour is quite high up my own priority list and I expend much of my total effort getting the right colour for the application wherever possible. When much younger I was less fussy but most colour call-outs are miles off. For example, any WW2 British aeroplane using Humbrol 30 or whatever Tamiya recommend in lieu of RAF Dark Green sticks out like a sore thumb to me and to my mind at least it completely undermines the whole model.
It doesn't matter too much for interiors and pilots in this scale but I'd recommend colour matching the exterior paints. Pretty much all the RLM paint codes such as Schwartzgrün, Dunkelgrün, Hellblau etc. are readily available matched to historical paint chips, and they really do transform a model IMHO.
I'd say it's relevant to a degree, but if you're applying anything but the lightest of weathering to a model of a brand new aircraft, the exact colour match isn't that critical. For example, I've matched the Medium Sea Grey of my current Tornado build to the correct specs of that applied to the real aircraft, but the colour is totally wrong. The real aircraft has faded to a degree that makes it much, much lighter. I've ended up mixing my own colour for it. In addition, when I pre-shade it with german grey, the entire airframe takes on a slightly darker hue, so the base colour needed lightening even more in order to compensate.Can I ask if the use of Citadel paints is mainly for cost-containment at this stage? I only ask because I can fully understand that rationale but money aside colour is quite high up my own priority list and I expend much of my total effort getting the right colour for the application wherever possible. When much younger I was less fussy but most colour call-outs are miles off. For example, any WW2 British aeroplane using Humbrol 30 or whatever Tamiya recommend in lieu of RAF Dark Green sticks out like a sore thumb to me and to my mind at least it completely undermines the whole model.
It doesn't matter too much for interiors and pilots in this scale but I'd recommend colour matching the exterior paints. Pretty much all the RLM paint codes such as Schwartzgrün, Dunkelgrün, Hellblau etc. are readily available matched to historical paint chips, and they really do transform a model IMHO.
If you also subscribe to the "scle effect" theory model finishing, where put simply, colours look darker at smaller scales, then the precise colour match also isn't much use. Fine for a starting point, but not much more.
Hi Jamie,
Thanks for the feedback, agree the colours are lacking subtlety, to be polite. Mostly cost as I have a drawer full of decades old paints, including some Humbrol 30 circa 1980, that I thought I'd use up as I got back into the hobby. If I mess up a technique at least it's not new money down the drain, except the odd fiver for a model or two to work on. There's a few pots and cans gone straight in the bin, and I'll replace with new as necessary.
My attempts from my distant youth were truly shocking (spotted one Sabre in the back of a drawer at my parents' place this Christmas that looked like I'd applied the paint with a trowel). With the internet there's so many tips and videos for reference that I might get vaguely close to how I wanted them to look, given practice.
Hopefully I'll improve (wouldn't be difficult) but equally the bar seems to have been raised since squeezy glue and following the call-out was sufficient.
Thanks for the feedback, agree the colours are lacking subtlety, to be polite. Mostly cost as I have a drawer full of decades old paints, including some Humbrol 30 circa 1980, that I thought I'd use up as I got back into the hobby. If I mess up a technique at least it's not new money down the drain, except the odd fiver for a model or two to work on. There's a few pots and cans gone straight in the bin, and I'll replace with new as necessary.
My attempts from my distant youth were truly shocking (spotted one Sabre in the back of a drawer at my parents' place this Christmas that looked like I'd applied the paint with a trowel). With the internet there's so many tips and videos for reference that I might get vaguely close to how I wanted them to look, given practice.
Hopefully I'll improve (wouldn't be difficult) but equally the bar seems to have been raised since squeezy glue and following the call-out was sufficient.
dr_gn said:
jamieduff1981 said:
His hands look like he's been crucified like Jesus too on my phone screen which is usually fairly true to colour.
Can I ask if the use of Citadel paints is mainly for cost-containment at this stage? I only ask because I can fully understand that rationale but money aside colour is quite high up my own priority list and I expend much of my total effort getting the right colour for the application wherever possible. When much younger I was less fussy but most colour call-outs are miles off. For example, any WW2 British aeroplane using Humbrol 30 or whatever Tamiya recommend in lieu of RAF Dark Green sticks out like a sore thumb to me and to my mind at least it completely undermines the whole model.
It doesn't matter too much for interiors and pilots in this scale but I'd recommend colour matching the exterior paints. Pretty much all the RLM paint codes such as Schwartzgrün, Dunkelgrün, Hellblau etc. are readily available matched to historical paint chips, and they really do transform a model IMHO.
I'd say it's relevant to a degree, but if you're applying anything but the lightest of weathering to a model of a brand new aircraft, the exact colour match isn't that critical. For example, I've matched the Medium Sea Grey of my current Tornado build to the correct specs of that applied to the real aircraft, but the colour is totally wrong. The real aircraft has faded to a degree that makes it much, much lighter. I've ended up mixing my own colour for it. In addition, when I pre-shade it with german grey, the entire airframe takes on a slightly darker hue, so the base colour needed lightening even more in order to compensate.Can I ask if the use of Citadel paints is mainly for cost-containment at this stage? I only ask because I can fully understand that rationale but money aside colour is quite high up my own priority list and I expend much of my total effort getting the right colour for the application wherever possible. When much younger I was less fussy but most colour call-outs are miles off. For example, any WW2 British aeroplane using Humbrol 30 or whatever Tamiya recommend in lieu of RAF Dark Green sticks out like a sore thumb to me and to my mind at least it completely undermines the whole model.
It doesn't matter too much for interiors and pilots in this scale but I'd recommend colour matching the exterior paints. Pretty much all the RLM paint codes such as Schwartzgrün, Dunkelgrün, Hellblau etc. are readily available matched to historical paint chips, and they really do transform a model IMHO.
If you also subscribe to the "scle effect" theory model finishing, where put simply, colours look darker at smaller scales, then the precise colour match also isn't much use. Fine for a starting point, but not much more.
jamieduff1981 said:
That's true however most 'fashionable' models are grossly over done in the shading and weathering stakes in my humble opinion, with effects added which require skill but don't really look any more like real aeroplanes than completely un-shaded and un-weathered models do.
I agree, the whole pre-shading thing is often grossly over done. (not by anyone on here I hasten to add.)Much depends on the subject too. A 40 year old Hellenic Air Force A7 Corsair that has sat scorching in Greek sunshine will fade a lot. Most WW2 subjects which saw combat, particularly in western Europe got chipped, oil stained and exhaust stained but didn't actually last long enough for the paint to fade before going back to maintenance units for repainting in the latest schemes if it wasn't shot down or crashed.
jamieduff1981 said:
Much depends on the subject too. A 40 year old Hellenic Air Force A7 Corsair that has sat scorching in Greek sunshine will fade a lot. Most WW2 subjects which saw combat, particularly in western Europe got chipped, oil stained and exhaust stained but didn't actually last long enough for the paint to fade before going back to maintenance units for repainting in the latest schemes if it wasn't shot down or crashed.
Yes, although I did find a picture of a totally worn-out looking Wellington, in an old 'Speed and Power supplement which has somehow managed to survive various domestic purges over the years. In fact I only kept it this time (ie a couple of weeks ago) when I found this particular pic:
Sorry it's a snap rather than a scan but you get the idea, amazing paint chipping and variations in the canvas – look at that red patch near the nearest roundel. Cool...
We probably spend longer painting the models than the fitters did, and repairs would have been carried out in all weathers, day and night with whatever paint they could get hold of. I'd imagine there'd be fifty shades of green, from various manufacturers and formulations, all marked "RAF Dark Green". A far cry from the Sunday Best that dr_gn is busy replicating on his (superb) Dambuster flypast Tornado.
Anyhow, back on topic - I've had a second go at the pilot, bonded the fuselage halves and added a rear bulkhead in putty (never did find the plastic scratch one).
Anyhow, back on topic - I've had a second go at the pilot, bonded the fuselage halves and added a rear bulkhead in putty (never did find the plastic scratch one).
Assembled, rescribed and primer applied.
Not entirely happy with the edge on the prop boss - the coverage of the white was dire, taking five coats and leaving a ridge at the mask line. Cleaned it up but it's not as crisp as I'd hoped.
I've also filled the two slots in the wing for the auxiliary cannon pods (as the scheme I'm planning doesn't have them fitted). That and a couple of other places indicate I need a finer grade emery board. Any suggestions?
Next step is an all over coat of 247 Lichtblau (bought 245/6/7 as the coverage of the Humbrol is way better than my decade old Citadel, although Elf Grey is a very close match - needs a touch of blue).
Not entirely happy with the edge on the prop boss - the coverage of the white was dire, taking five coats and leaving a ridge at the mask line. Cleaned it up but it's not as crisp as I'd hoped.
I've also filled the two slots in the wing for the auxiliary cannon pods (as the scheme I'm planning doesn't have them fitted). That and a couple of other places indicate I need a finer grade emery board. Any suggestions?
Next step is an all over coat of 247 Lichtblau (bought 245/6/7 as the coverage of the Humbrol is way better than my decade old Citadel, although Elf Grey is a very close match - needs a touch of blue).
It all looks very neat to me. Re. the emery board - have a look at the nailcare (or whatever its called) section at a supermarket - they should have all grades bonded to a flexible plastic backing.
How come you didn't paint the spinner white first, then the black? For most grey to white stuff I use Tamiya white primer. In this case a couple of coats might have been enough for the final finish.
How come you didn't paint the spinner white first, then the black? For most grey to white stuff I use Tamiya white primer. In this case a couple of coats might have been enough for the final finish.
dr_gn said:
It all looks very neat to me. Re. the emery board - have a look at the nailcare (or whatever its called) section at a supermarket - they should have all grades bonded to a flexible plastic backing.
How come you didn't paint the spinner white first, then the black? For most grey to white stuff I use Tamiya white primer. In this case a couple of coats might have been enough for the final finish.
Thanks for the info, I'll wander into Boots and pretend I'm David Bowie.How come you didn't paint the spinner white first, then the black? For most grey to white stuff I use Tamiya white primer. In this case a couple of coats might have been enough for the final finish.
Re spinner - lack of experience. In hindsight, white first on the light grey primer would have been the better order.
This is very much a learning process, and painting is my weakest point.
I think it's fair to say that even very experienced modellers learn something on every build so don't beat yourself up.
The 109 is looking good, and even the spinner has turned out well enough. You're clearly approaching things patiently and methodically. If the method proves sub-optimal, then so be it
The 109 is looking good, and even the spinner has turned out well enough. You're clearly approaching things patiently and methodically. If the method proves sub-optimal, then so be it
johnS2000 said:
I bought an emery type sponge thing in boots Saturday with all 4 sides different grades ! the finest actually makes the plastic shiny!!
Only cost a pound but I don't think its going to last long !
I've got a couple of those, but they are difficult to use on small models. I find the strips of abrasive easier.Only cost a pound but I don't think its going to last long !
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