What to do when you've got better data?
Discussion
Really, it's not a slippery slope.
The RK has fairly serious responsibilities anyway about other people driving his or her car, so adding the parking things in is nothing. I suspect you are just annoyed that a get-out has gone.
Bert
quote=Garvin]We used to have laws that the miscreant, and the miscreant only, could be held liable for misdemeanours.
The slippery slope then started when for speeding offences the RK had to fess up who the driver was or be held liable themselves and face fines/points etc.
Further down the slippery slope, plod can now slap a Section 59 on a vehicle for any reason they like. I know they are not supposed to, but they can and do and with no real appeal against it. Again, as a RK you can end up with your vehicle being seized for some really petty reason for which you have no involvement.
Even further down the slippery slope, for parking misdemeanours the RK can now be held to account regardless of their involvement (apart from being the RK)!
So when authorities keep records on a vehicle just remember that there is absolutley no need, as merely the RK, to be alarmed. To do so, according to some people (you know the sort - if you've done nothing wrong there is nothing to fear blah, blah), condemns you to being part of the tinfoil hat brigade! No, absolutely nothing to be concerned about at all!
[/quote]
The RK has fairly serious responsibilities anyway about other people driving his or her car, so adding the parking things in is nothing. I suspect you are just annoyed that a get-out has gone.
Bert
quote=Garvin]We used to have laws that the miscreant, and the miscreant only, could be held liable for misdemeanours.
The slippery slope then started when for speeding offences the RK had to fess up who the driver was or be held liable themselves and face fines/points etc.
Further down the slippery slope, plod can now slap a Section 59 on a vehicle for any reason they like. I know they are not supposed to, but they can and do and with no real appeal against it. Again, as a RK you can end up with your vehicle being seized for some really petty reason for which you have no involvement.
Even further down the slippery slope, for parking misdemeanours the RK can now be held to account regardless of their involvement (apart from being the RK)!
So when authorities keep records on a vehicle just remember that there is absolutley no need, as merely the RK, to be alarmed. To do so, according to some people (you know the sort - if you've done nothing wrong there is nothing to fear blah, blah), condemns you to being part of the tinfoil hat brigade! No, absolutely nothing to be concerned about at all!
[/quote]
Dr Jekyll said:
Also, why are these 'community speedwatch' initiatives concentrated in 30MPH villages? 30 limits in narrow hazardous roads through villages are not what the controversy is about, nobody in their right mind would go significantly over the limit there anyway.
Well sorry, I watched it. I stood there and in the course of 15 mins I saw three complete knobs.And yes, plod could be there to do something and should be, but not every day.
Bert
PS you do realise I am a closet CSW'er don't you?
It's trivial. Forget it.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
On second thoughts
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
On second thoughts
BertBert said:
So to put a different point of view on CSW...
I used to think they were universally a bunch of tossy busbodies with nowt else to do.
So one day I stopped as I saw them in one place a lot on my way to work. I chatted to them and watched the traffic. It is a very narrow, very busy, pretty dangerous place and the driving and speed I saw was pretty eye-watering. So what do you do? Get a bunch of free people to stand around with a speed gun. Saves paying plod and actually made a difference.
In the end they obviously recorded enough t
ttery for the council to put a traffic throttle thing in.
So PH massive, what is your solution to places where people drive too fast (and above the limit)? Speed camera? Permanent plod stationed? Lower limits?
Bert
Er, how about the local village police constable stop sitting in his office preparing arrests statistics and records, and choosing to stand at the location at random times. I'm sure, after a few brown trouser episodes, the local speed trangresors will get the message, and behave.I used to think they were universally a bunch of tossy busbodies with nowt else to do.
So one day I stopped as I saw them in one place a lot on my way to work. I chatted to them and watched the traffic. It is a very narrow, very busy, pretty dangerous place and the driving and speed I saw was pretty eye-watering. So what do you do? Get a bunch of free people to stand around with a speed gun. Saves paying plod and actually made a difference.
In the end they obviously recorded enough t
ttery for the council to put a traffic throttle thing in.So PH massive, what is your solution to places where people drive too fast (and above the limit)? Speed camera? Permanent plod stationed? Lower limits?
Bert
BertBert said:
Really, it's not a slippery slope.
The RK has fairly serious responsibilities anyway about other people driving his or her car, so adding the parking things in is nothing. I suspect you are just annoyed that a get-out has gone.
Bert
It is a slippery slope, it really is. I'm not sure what you mean by a "get out" but my real 'annoyance' is that someone who has commited no misdemeanour can be, essentially, prosecuted for it. It crosses a line I am not comfortable with at all. You are obviously comfortable with it and that is your prerogative, I am not.The RK has fairly serious responsibilities anyway about other people driving his or her car, so adding the parking things in is nothing. I suspect you are just annoyed that a get-out has gone.
Bert
For the avoidance of doubt I have absolutely no problem with people who do transgress being made accountable for their transgressions. I do get annoyed when people who have done absolutely nothing wrong get intimidated by those in authority.
robinessex said:
BertBert said:
So to put a different point of view on CSW...
I used to think they were universally a bunch of tossy busbodies with nowt else to do.
So one day I stopped as I saw them in one place a lot on my way to work. I chatted to them and watched the traffic. It is a very narrow, very busy, pretty dangerous place and the driving and speed I saw was pretty eye-watering. So what do you do? Get a bunch of free people to stand around with a speed gun. Saves paying plod and actually made a difference.
In the end they obviously recorded enough tttery for the council to put a traffic throttle thing in.
So PH massive, what is your solution to places where people drive too fast (and above the limit)? Speed camera? Permanent plod stationed? Lower limits?
Bert
Er, how about the local village police constable stop sitting in his office preparing arrests statistics and records, and choosing to stand at the location at random times. I'm sure, after a few brown trouser episodes, the local speed trangresors will get the message, and behave.I used to think they were universally a bunch of tossy busbodies with nowt else to do.
So one day I stopped as I saw them in one place a lot on my way to work. I chatted to them and watched the traffic. It is a very narrow, very busy, pretty dangerous place and the driving and speed I saw was pretty eye-watering. So what do you do? Get a bunch of free people to stand around with a speed gun. Saves paying plod and actually made a difference.
In the end they obviously recorded enough t
ttery for the council to put a traffic throttle thing in.So PH massive, what is your solution to places where people drive too fast (and above the limit)? Speed camera? Permanent plod stationed? Lower limits?
Bert
Garvin said:
It is a slippery slope, it really is. I'm not sure what you mean by a "get out" but my real 'annoyance' is that someone who has commited no misdemeanour can be, essentially, prosecuted for it. It crosses a line I am not comfortable with at all. You are obviously comfortable with it and that is your prerogative, I am not.
Understand that you can be not comfortable with it. But point is that as RK you have obligations anyway under S172 anyway for example. That is far more serious than the parking thing.Bert
rscott said:
robinessex said:
BertBert said:
So to put a different point of view on CSW...
I used to think they were universally a bunch of tossy busbodies with nowt else to do.
So one day I stopped as I saw them in one place a lot on my way to work. I chatted to them and watched the traffic. It is a very narrow, very busy, pretty dangerous place and the driving and speed I saw was pretty eye-watering. So what do you do? Get a bunch of free people to stand around with a speed gun. Saves paying plod and actually made a difference.
In the end they obviously recorded enough tttery for the council to put a traffic throttle thing in.
So PH massive, what is your solution to places where people drive too fast (and above the limit)? Speed camera? Permanent plod stationed? Lower limits?
Bert
Er, how about the local village police constable stop sitting in his office preparing arrests statistics and records, and choosing to stand at the location at random times. I'm sure, after a few brown trouser episodes, the local speed trangresors will get the message, and behave.I used to think they were universally a bunch of tossy busbodies with nowt else to do.
So one day I stopped as I saw them in one place a lot on my way to work. I chatted to them and watched the traffic. It is a very narrow, very busy, pretty dangerous place and the driving and speed I saw was pretty eye-watering. So what do you do? Get a bunch of free people to stand around with a speed gun. Saves paying plod and actually made a difference.
In the end they obviously recorded enough t
ttery for the council to put a traffic throttle thing in.So PH massive, what is your solution to places where people drive too fast (and above the limit)? Speed camera? Permanent plod stationed? Lower limits?
Bert
rscott said:
Er, we have 3 officers to cover 12 villages spread out across a wide rural area... Without CSW they have no data to use to decide which villages have the biggest speeding problems. That's assuming they even have time to do speculative enforcement between dealing with all the other rural crime issues..
I think no data is better than incorrect dataGarvin said:
We used to have laws that the miscreant, and the miscreant only, could be held liable for misdemeanours.
The slippery slope then started when for speeding offences the RK had to fess up who the driver was or be held liable themselves and face fines/points etc.
Further down the slippery slope, plod can now slap a Section 59 on a vehicle for any reason they like. I know they are not supposed to, but they can and do and with no real appeal against it. Again, as a RK you can end up with your vehicle being seized for some really petty reason for which you have no involvement.
Even further down the slippery slope, for parking misdemeanours the RK can now be held to account regardless of their involvement (apart from being the RK)!
So when authorities keep records on a vehicle just remember that there is absolutley no need, as merely the RK, to be alarmed. To do so, according to some people (you know the sort - if you've done nothing wrong there is nothing to fear blah, blah), condemns you to being part of the tinfoil hat brigade! No, absolutely nothing to be concerned about at all!
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slopeThe slippery slope then started when for speeding offences the RK had to fess up who the driver was or be held liable themselves and face fines/points etc.
Further down the slippery slope, plod can now slap a Section 59 on a vehicle for any reason they like. I know they are not supposed to, but they can and do and with no real appeal against it. Again, as a RK you can end up with your vehicle being seized for some really petty reason for which you have no involvement.
Even further down the slippery slope, for parking misdemeanours the RK can now be held to account regardless of their involvement (apart from being the RK)!
So when authorities keep records on a vehicle just remember that there is absolutley no need, as merely the RK, to be alarmed. To do so, according to some people (you know the sort - if you've done nothing wrong there is nothing to fear blah, blah), condemns you to being part of the tinfoil hat brigade! No, absolutely nothing to be concerned about at all!
I heard that Bacofoil have been spreading conspiracy theories to increase sales of tin foil...
Devil2575 said:
Garvin said:
We used to have laws that the miscreant, and the miscreant only, could be held liable for misdemeanours.
The slippery slope then started when for speeding offences the RK had to fess up who the driver was or be held liable themselves and face fines/points etc.
Further down the slippery slope, plod can now slap a Section 59 on a vehicle for any reason they like. I know they are not supposed to, but they can and do and with no real appeal against it. Again, as a RK you can end up with your vehicle being seized for some really petty reason for which you have no involvement.
Even further down the slippery slope, for parking misdemeanours the RK can now be held to account regardless of their involvement (apart from being the RK)!
So when authorities keep records on a vehicle just remember that there is absolutley no need, as merely the RK, to be alarmed. To do so, according to some people (you know the sort - if you've done nothing wrong there is nothing to fear blah, blah), condemns you to being part of the tinfoil hat brigade! No, absolutely nothing to be concerned about at all!
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slopeThe slippery slope then started when for speeding offences the RK had to fess up who the driver was or be held liable themselves and face fines/points etc.
Further down the slippery slope, plod can now slap a Section 59 on a vehicle for any reason they like. I know they are not supposed to, but they can and do and with no real appeal against it. Again, as a RK you can end up with your vehicle being seized for some really petty reason for which you have no involvement.
Even further down the slippery slope, for parking misdemeanours the RK can now be held to account regardless of their involvement (apart from being the RK)!
So when authorities keep records on a vehicle just remember that there is absolutley no need, as merely the RK, to be alarmed. To do so, according to some people (you know the sort - if you've done nothing wrong there is nothing to fear blah, blah), condemns you to being part of the tinfoil hat brigade! No, absolutely nothing to be concerned about at all!
I heard that Bacofoil have been spreading conspiracy theories to increase sales of tin foil...
Completely anecdotal evidence here, but I recall being "zapped" by a couple of these people, who then shouted and waved at me to slow down, when I was doing exactly 28 miles per hour, and was being overtaken (two lanes in a one way system around Lyndhurst in the New Forest for those who know it) by a Discovery in the other lane.
I guess because I was in a sports car, in 2nd gear, having just turned a sharp corner and not needing to change up, I was the one in the wrong.
I never got a letter, but I guess only because I didn't have a front numberplate on at the time!
I guess because I was in a sports car, in 2nd gear, having just turned a sharp corner and not needing to change up, I was the one in the wrong.
I never got a letter, but I guess only because I didn't have a front numberplate on at the time!
DeuxCentCinq said:
Completely anecdotal evidence here, but I recall being "zapped" by a couple of these people, who then shouted and waved at me to slow down, when I was doing exactly 28 miles per hour, and was being overtaken (two lanes in a one way system around Lyndhurst in the New Forest for those who know it) by a Discovery in the other lane.
I guess because I was in a sports car, in 2nd gear, having just turned a sharp corner and not needing to change up, I was the one in the wrong.
I never got a letter, but I guess only because I didn't have a front numberplate on at the time!
I know that it would make me a knob to do so, but I would pull over, park up and go and tell them to f*ck off.I guess because I was in a sports car, in 2nd gear, having just turned a sharp corner and not needing to change up, I was the one in the wrong.
I never got a letter, but I guess only because I didn't have a front numberplate on at the time!
DeuxCentCinq said:
Completely anecdotal evidence here, but I recall being "zapped" by a couple of these people, who then shouted and waved at me to slow down, when I was doing exactly 28 miles per hour, and was being overtaken (two lanes in a one way system around Lyndhurst in the New Forest for those who know it) by a Discovery in the other lane.
I guess because I was in a sports car, in 2nd gear, having just turned a sharp corner and not needing to change up, I was the one in the wrong.
I never got a letter, but I guess only because I didn't have a front numberplate on at the time!
I usually just wave back, give em a wink, and a big grin. I guess because I was in a sports car, in 2nd gear, having just turned a sharp corner and not needing to change up, I was the one in the wrong.
I never got a letter, but I guess only because I didn't have a front numberplate on at the time!
Garvin said:
Devil2575 said:
Garvin said:
We used to have laws that the miscreant, and the miscreant only, could be held liable for misdemeanours.
The slippery slope then started when for speeding offences the RK had to fess up who the driver was or be held liable themselves and face fines/points etc.
Further down the slippery slope, plod can now slap a Section 59 on a vehicle for any reason they like. I know they are not supposed to, but they can and do and with no real appeal against it. Again, as a RK you can end up with your vehicle being seized for some really petty reason for which you have no involvement.
Even further down the slippery slope, for parking misdemeanours the RK can now be held to account regardless of their involvement (apart from being the RK)!
So when authorities keep records on a vehicle just remember that there is absolutley no need, as merely the RK, to be alarmed. To do so, according to some people (you know the sort - if you've done nothing wrong there is nothing to fear blah, blah), condemns you to being part of the tinfoil hat brigade! No, absolutely nothing to be concerned about at all!
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slopeThe slippery slope then started when for speeding offences the RK had to fess up who the driver was or be held liable themselves and face fines/points etc.
Further down the slippery slope, plod can now slap a Section 59 on a vehicle for any reason they like. I know they are not supposed to, but they can and do and with no real appeal against it. Again, as a RK you can end up with your vehicle being seized for some really petty reason for which you have no involvement.
Even further down the slippery slope, for parking misdemeanours the RK can now be held to account regardless of their involvement (apart from being the RK)!
So when authorities keep records on a vehicle just remember that there is absolutley no need, as merely the RK, to be alarmed. To do so, according to some people (you know the sort - if you've done nothing wrong there is nothing to fear blah, blah), condemns you to being part of the tinfoil hat brigade! No, absolutely nothing to be concerned about at all!
I heard that Bacofoil have been spreading conspiracy theories to increase sales of tin foil...
I don't see any of the things you mentioned as being especially bad, except perhaps S59 potentially being open to abuse.
My comment was really aim at the final part - infering that you do have something to fear. I don't agree and I don't see the issues you listed as being on a slippery slope.
DeuxCentCinq said:
Completely anecdotal evidence here, but I recall being "zapped" by a couple of these people, who then shouted and waved at me to slow down, when I was doing exactly 28 miles per hour, and was being overtaken (two lanes in a one way system around Lyndhurst in the New Forest for those who know it) by a Discovery in the other lane.
I guess because I was in a sports car, in 2nd gear, having just turned a sharp corner and not needing to change up, I was the one in the wrong.
I never got a letter, but I guess only because I didn't have a front numberplate on at the time!
Or maybe they were shouting at the Discovery overtaking you?I guess because I was in a sports car, in 2nd gear, having just turned a sharp corner and not needing to change up, I was the one in the wrong.
I never got a letter, but I guess only because I didn't have a front numberplate on at the time!
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