McLaren F1 for sale....one not-so-careful previous owner

[robinessex]

He Ccould always buy an Ultima. 7ltrs, +600bhp, sod all weight, no traction control, ABS, power steering. Beginning to sound familiar ? And the abilty to throw him into the scenery anytime it wants to !! Perfect. PS. Fastest around the Top Gear track as well !!!

[daveofedinburgh]

RobM77 said:

Kids love it though

My friends' 2 year old little boy is utterly obsessed with 2 things:

-Cars

-Mr Bean

The Mr Bean cartoon is the only foolproof thing you can put on the TV that will totally captivate him beginning to end, even on his 20th watch. He's a borderline OCD little guy, has to surround himself with 4-5 toy cars before he'll eat or sleep.

Makes me wonder if Mr Atkinson has put some subliminal stuff in there to indoctrinate a new generation of potential buyers for his well-used toys.

In all seriousness, I see no reason for this being regarded with any suspicion as far as a prospective F1. As stated already, its going to be as 'new' as any example that's likely to ever come up again. The well-publicised history of the man's ownership gives it some extra interest factor if it does anything, given how low-volume they are. Needs to be left on its P-plate and enjoyed over many miles to carry on the legacy of a unique F1 which is being used as intended.

If it ends up sat in some super-rich fellas' collection as just another F1 it'll be a sad fate for the car indeed.

The only convincing theory Ive read on here is that his insurance quote became prohibitive, likely because of his well publicised crashiness. Yes, he is very wealthy, but is clearly a committed petrolhead who will be able to scratch various other itches with the capital/ ongoing expenses he has tied up in this. After all, he truly has 'done' the F1 thing like pretty much no one else already...

Can't think of anything else which would be cooler to use on the regular. I would personally use it to pop down to the local Subway on Sunday for my 12 inch Italian BMT, which would duly be stored in the little side storage pod thingies. Can envisage stopping for a chat/ show-off outside the sandwich shop with some like-minded petrolheads, explaining how I like to give it a regular blast every Sunday lunchtime to blow away the hangover/ cobwebs from Saturday nights indulgences. I know I should keep it in a bubble, but I prefer it smelling of jalapeños, grilled cheese and whisky breath.

Sorry, fantasy over.

[Mousem40]

Megaflow said:

Where did you hear he had requested the original tub must stay?

The classic and sports car article p.90 paragraph 3. 'But atkinson insisted that this be an authentic repair that in every way continued the integrity of F1 061.....' Etc.

[DonkeyApple]

Maybe he is just calling the top of the market. It's going to be someone, might as well be someone likeable.

[flemke]

Mousem40 said:

Megaflow said:

Where did you hear he had requested the original tub must stay?

The classic and sports car article p.90 paragraph 3. 'But atkinson insisted that this be an authentic repair that in every way continued the integrity of F1 061.....' Etc.

You would need to retain enough of the original tub/chassis in order to preserve the original chassis number. This is standard practice for vintage racing cars.

[Mousem40]

flemke said:

Mousem40 said:

Megaflow said:

Where did you hear he had requested the original tub must stay?

The classic and sports car article p.90 paragraph 3. 'But atkinson insisted that this be an authentic repair that in every way continued the integrity of F1 061.....' Etc.

You would need to retain enough of the original tub/chassis in order to preserve the original chassis number. This is standard practice for vintage racing cars.

Absolutely. But in insisting that they keep as much original as possible, that diminishes people's claims that it is as good as new after such a big shunt. For example, the damaged door with the ripped off wing mirror was retained and patched up. How is that remotely as good as new?

[williamp]

Mousem40 said:

flemke said:

Mousem40 said:

Megaflow said:

Where did you hear he had requested the original tub must stay?

The classic and sports car article p.90 paragraph 3. 'But atkinson insisted that this be an authentic repair that in every way continued the integrity of F1 061.....' Etc.

You would need to retain enough of the original tub/chassis in order to preserve the original chassis number. This is standard practice for vintage racing cars.

Absolutely. But in insisting that they keep as much original as possible, that diminishes people's claims that it is as good as new after such a big shunt. For example, the damaged door with the ripped off wing mirror was retained and patched up. How is that remotely as good as new?

Those questions are good, and have been the subject of legal proceedings regarding histiric racing, etc which has set a precident. Continuous history pakes precident. So a car whose bodypanels have been replaced- by the factory in this instance-are more original then the bits which came of the car and might, in the future firm part of a "newbuild" car. Chassis 200 or somusuch. So you can claim that as good as new does mean replacemen oanels and parts, fitted by the factory.

[Megaflow]

Mousem40 said:

Megaflow said:

Where did you hear he had requested the original tub must stay?

The classic and sports car article p.90 paragraph 3. 'But atkinson insisted that this be an authentic repair that in every way continued the integrity of F1 061.....' Etc.

I read the same article, in fact I may still have it, but don't recall that bit.

[PAUL500]

You can change the entire bodyshell/chassis on any vehicle and still retain the VIN/ Vehicle title, it just gets transferred across and is classed as a replacement part like any other. Must be a new one though, supplied by the original manufacturer. Happens all the time in bodyshops around the world, even sanctioned by insurance companies, the car your driving now may well have had a swap at some point and it would never show up as recorded on the hpi if paid for by the insurance or carried out by the owner rather than going through insurance.

[Steven_RW]

Fun theoretical chat about whether it is as good as new, as good as one that has done equivalent mileage but not been crashed, therefore not had any key parts replaced, as good as one that has sat in the garage and just aged in whatever way that happens or not as good as any of the above.

I assume that there are very few people involved in this chat and offering their opinions that could afford to buy it or even know someone who could afford to buy it, therefore will never need to follow up their views with actual invested cash.

I'm also wondering how many of us would be upset to own the crash repaired one, if it appreciated for another 20% or so and they sold to release the profit. Or if we would prefer to come up with a bigger £ to pay for an original uncrashed/repaired model. How much extra would you say that was worth?

All very interesting and I look forward to seeing if someone thinks differently and is willing to part with their £8m for a crashed repaired F1.

:-)

Steven RW

Edited by Steven_RW on Monday 26th January 09:22

[Sway]

Mclaren are well capable of checking composite structures for structural integrity!

The value for me in this car is twofold - the mileage and the relationship his car has had with the factory.

Buy any of the low mileage cars, and it'll be significantly down on power compared to RA's, and require a bloody big bill to recondition it to working standard.

Add in the fact that he's used the factory for everything, cost no object (including the repair which Mclaren will only release once they're satisfied it's fully within spec across all aspects) and you have one of very few cars that would be appropriate to buy to use.

Yes, you could buy a factory fresh car with 100 miles on the clock. fk that. It's only ever going to be a static display/vault centrepiece.

I'd far rather RA's, or Flemke's, or one of the couple of others that have actually seen regular use. If I'm ever in the position I think I'd be asking Flemke about the revisions he's made (without factory support) to improve the handling at the limit/use modern era tyres...

The WBAC snafu is my fault - tried to get a quote, realised Mclaren aren't listed, so then thought I'd see what they'd offer on a brand new 458 (most expensive car on the list) - didn't realise they'd save the form entries against the reg number!

Edited by Sway on Monday 26th January 09:41

[flemke]

Mousem40 said:

flemke said:

Mousem40 said:

Megaflow said:

Where did you hear he had requested the original tub must stay?

The classic and sports car article p.90 paragraph 3. 'But atkinson insisted that this be an authentic repair that in every way continued the integrity of F1 061.....' Etc.

You would need to retain enough of the original tub/chassis in order to preserve the original chassis number. This is standard practice for vintage racing cars.

Absolutely. But in insisting that they keep as much original as possible, that diminishes people's claims that it is as good as new after such a big shunt. For example, the damaged door with the ripped off wing mirror was retained and patched up. How is that remotely as good as new?

I think the view is that, as long as the portion of the original tub that contains the VIN that was moulded or engraved into the resin is retained, to build around it is to repair the original.

In the example given by another poster, to provide a whole new chassis, shell or tub and recycle the original VIN, I know that is done, but for one thing there has to be a replacement tub available, and that is not the case with the F1.

Also, in other cars one will see the chassis "plate", the physical bit with the number on it, moved from one set of parts to another, and this other set of parts will then be considered the original car. Because in the F1 the VIN is moulded into the resin of the integral one-piece tub, however, one cannot simply unscrew a chassis plate as is normally the case.

Unlike with metal, when a carbon fibre tub is repaired, one of the problems is that you will need to splice or overlap new pieces of CF; you cannot just butt-weld the new piece up to the old piece. From the outside, the repair will be invisible, but if you were to look at the reverse side there would unavoidably be the overlapping patch and additional bonding resin. This adds a bit of weight, looks unappealing, and detracts from the elegance of a pristine piece in its intended condition.

A CF-tub car thus repaired should function as well as, or possibly an imperceptible amount better than, the 20 year-old original, but for most buyers is simply is not as nice and, for that kind of money, you are paying for a lot of nice.

[robinessex]

So what is the insurance cost per year on one of these beasts then?

[flemke]

robinessex said:

So what is the insurance cost per year on one of these beasts then?

Depends on how much cover you're buying. The repair cost in the case even of a catastrophe is not going to equal the market value, so you would insure for full market value only if you were fearful of theft. Anything can be stolen, but in the case of the F1 it's quite unlikely, for a number of reasons.

[Europa1]

HertsBiker said:

Stupid money though. I'd buy a Veyron and be happy with the change.

Whilst the Veyron is undoubtedly a towering technical achievement, I've always found its looks "challenging" to say the least - the dogmatic adherence to the Bugatti grille makes it just look as though someone's glued a fireplace to the front.

I think the McLaren F1 has aged very well and is becoming a timeless classic; it's still an extremely good, and contemporary, looking car. I am not sure many other hypercars will age as gracefully.

[McAndy]

Europa1 said:

Whilst the Veyron is undoubtedly a towering technical achievement, I've always found its looks "challenging" to say the least - the dogmatic adherence to the Bugatti grille makes it just look as though someone's glued a fireplace to the front.

I think the McLaren F1 has aged very well and is becoming a timeless classic; it's still an extremely good, and contemporary, looking car. I am not sure many other hypercars will age as gracefully.

It's interesting how the Veyron splits opinion! I think that the original, uncluttered ones will age reasonably well. Small, compact and relatively simple: not too much can become unfashionable there. (Unlike some of the more, erm...well...challenging(!) colour combinations that have been created since.)

[Sway]

You've obviously not stood next to one if you're saying it's small and relatively simple!

Bloody thing is massive, and hugely complex (even in looks)...

The thing that stood out most for me on the Veyron, oddly enough, was the windscreen wiper. No mere arm for VW/Bugatti, it's a tubular contraption that looks strong enough to be a component on the Forth Bridge...

Then you look inside, and see that interior...

Very, very well made (which even visibly isn't the case for most of the top drawer manufacturers), but not an object I covet even compared to much, much more prosaic machinery.

[ilovevolvo]

I wonder what the total invoices add up to in all the years RA has owed it

[McAndy]

Sway said:

You've obviously not stood next to one if you're saying it's small and relatively simple!

Bloody thing is massive, and hugely complex (even in looks)...

I have stood next to many. The length is not dissimilar 997 (shorter than a 991). The most complex surfacing is over the engine, which is not visible from the usual side and front 3/4 angles. Compare it to the fussy detailing and huge radii and swoops on the current 3 talked about supercars and the Veyron's considerably shorter length makes it appear much smaller to my eye. (Granted, it is slightly wider and taller.)

LaFerrari: Length 4702mm; Width 1992mm; Height 1116mm.
P1: Length 4590mm; Width 1946mm; Height 1170mm.
918 Spyder: Length 4643mm; Width 1940mm; Height 1167mm.
Veyron: Length 4462mm; Width 1998mm; Height 1204mm.
997 Carrera: Length 4435mm; Width 1808mm; Height 1310mm.
991 Turbo: Length 4506mm; Width 1880mm; Height 1296mm.

The LaFerrari must look like a whale to you!

[TA14]

Europa1 said:

Whilst the Veyron is undoubtedly a towering technical achievement.

I wouldn't agree with that. Whilst it is an achievement it's not all that impressive compared to the F1 for example. To get an extra 20mph top speed VW added turbos to a large engine and numerous radiators and complexity together with tyres and wheels that don't seem to last five minutes and astronomical running costs. It's not surprising that the first few design teams didn't think that an acceptable road car could be built from the design brief.