Vantage v12S owners

Vantage v12S owners

Author
Discussion

franki68

Original Poster:

10,330 posts

220 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
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I've got a back to back drive next week with that and a vanquish,I think I may fall hopelessly for one or both ,but is the gearbox that bad on the v12s ? I never liked the box on the v8 vantage I tried a few years back ,and every test talks about how antiquated it feels ,but what is it like to live with ?

roughrider

975 posts

185 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
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The box is great, please allow the salesperson a few miles to demonstrate it properly. 2 things he/she probably won't want to demonstrate, are full throttle gear shifts, and optimal downshifting [both in "SPORT" mode], especially in the current weather!! yikes

Phil74891

1,064 posts

132 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
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My comments to add to the above:

Sportshift 3 is excellent.
Go in with an open mind. Ignore all the road test reports.
For normal up changes, slightly lift your foot off the accelerator.
Down changes, go down two gears just to listen to it smile
Under no circumstances whatsoever use the 'D' button. You should have no reason to use this, the paddles are just so much fun in all driving conditions, and it's the gearbox in 'D' msny of the journalists gripe and moan about more than anything.
Get a feel for how long the gears take to change, and think 'could I shift faster with a clutch pedal and stick?'
Is it antiquated when compared to a PDK? Yes, it is. But is it as antequated as a clutch pedal and stick? Think of it as a manual gearbox with different controls. If you want a PDK, you'll have to get one of those horrible things they come in. smile

One final thought, if you get to drive the car in anger, you'll be damned glad you've got two hands on the wheel at all times.......

Enjoy the drives and let us know what you think.








Phil74891

1,064 posts

132 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
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Sorry O/P - just checked out your profile......based on what cars you have/had you'll decide on SS3 in about 30 seconds smile

JBaps

214 posts

124 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
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Concur with everything Phil74891 says above. I will add a few negatives to the pot though…

1) Reverse is pretty much an on/off affair,
2) Don't rely on the automatic change down to select the correct gear when slowing to a near halt at a junction, it will incorrectly select 2nd instead of 1st and then hesitate dangerously when you go to pull away as it changes it's mind and (sluggishly) drops to 1st,
3) When crawling in traffic it will slip the clutch in 2nd instead of dropping into 1st.
4) Never press the 'D' button :-)

Other than those issues it really isn't that bad.

John.

Jon39

12,782 posts

142 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
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There is no need to worry about the gearbox.

At Millbrook I found the paddle gear changes instantly responsive and great fun.

It was only after doing two runs on the 1 mile straight, that I realised there is no need to keep changing gear. The V12VS has so much torque, that it is very nearly as fast, doing the whole run in 3rd gear only. To discover that was a disappointment.

Just leave it in 3rd and you will be fine. - smile
Where is the fun with that though?

My own preference is for manual on a road sports car. It gives me more involvement.


Phil74891

1,064 posts

132 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
JBaps said:
Concur with everything Phil74891 says above. I will add a few negatives to the pot though…

1) Reverse is pretty much an on/off affair,
2) Don't rely on the automatic change down to select the correct gear when slowing to a near halt at a junction, it will incorrectly select 2nd instead of 1st and then hesitate dangerously when you go to pull away as it changes it's mind and (sluggishly) drops to 1st,
3) When crawling in traffic it will slip the clutch in 2nd instead of dropping into 1st.
4) Never press the 'D' button :-)

Other than those issues it really isn't that bad.

John.
I concur with John on the above. 1) can be avoided by not going backwards, 2) and 3) by using the paddles and 4), well, just don't do it.

quench

498 posts

145 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
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IMO the key with SS3 is to drive it as you would a manual, because, as the testers seem to forget, that's what it is! If you can't drive a manual or don't like manuals, this is probably the wrong transmission choice.

Unless you are in sport mode at max attack and at or near redline, upshifts can be finessed with a slight lift of the throttle. This has to be well timed and it takes a lot of practice to get right, as it must be different depending on throttle position and rate of acceleration. To me, this makes SS3 more satisfying than a dual clutch or ZF 8 speed slush box when you are driving for the sake of driving, that is, if you are the type who really cares to be thinking about the process. Same with downshifts, but to a lesser degree, as the software does rev match very well, but you can still make them smoother by judging the correct combination of throttle, decel/brake and timing of paddle pull.

I disagree with the comments about leaving it in third gear. There is a lot of enjoyment (and performance) to be had from running the car through the gears, and the latest V12 is a bit happier to rev out than the last gen, which was on the original V12V.

Re: the comments on gear selection when coming to a halt - the car downshifts very smoothly by itself (even in paddle mode) as you slow to a crawl and I do not tend to downshift with the paddles in such a situation, but as mentioned it's best to manually select first gear when preparing to move off. If I am going to be stopped for more than a few seconds (at a light for example), I put the car in neutral by pulling both paddles, just as I would put a true manual into neutral.

Oh... and don't assume the salesperson will know how to properly operate SS3!

Edited by quench on Friday 23 January 22:35

hashluck

1,611 posts

274 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
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This is why I struggle with the obsession with traditional Manual.

Sportshift is manual just without the terrible inconvenience of a clutch pedal and gearstick.

Imagine if Sportshift existed first for many years and then someone came along and said we are going to take away the paddles and give you a stick lever thing so you will have to take a hand off the steering wheel to change gear. Also, to use the stick lever thing you will first need to press a pedal with your left leg. People might think that someone slightly mad!

Please take in the spirit intended smile

franki68

Original Poster:

10,330 posts

220 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
quotequote all
Thanks for the advice,I had an m6 with a similar box so I understand it is a manual with no clutch,and bearing in mind the weather I don't think I will be pushing it hard.
I'm intrigued about reverse being an on off affair,must make parking fun?

Little Donkey

1,544 posts

140 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
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Phil74891 said:
My comments to add to the above:


One final thought, if you get to drive the car in anger, you'll be damned glad you've got two hands on the wheel at all times.......
Totally agree. I drove a V12S at Silverstone when I owned a manual V12 and decided that for a talentless mortal like me keeping both hands on the wheel was an essential part of the drive.

Manwhoneverwas

598 posts

130 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
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Little Donkey said:
Totally agree. I drove a V12S at Silverstone when I owned a manual V12 and decided that for a talentless mortal like me keeping both hands on the wheel was an essential part of the drive.
I remember a professional racing driver being interviewed after crashing in a race and he was asked what happened, his reply was that "I ran out of talent"
The Sportshift gearbox is something you have to learn and believe me it does take some time and practice, however it is worth mastering and I love the Sportshift on mine (first version of Sportshift).
I had to laugh that someone called the Sportshift antiquated and preferred a manual (state of the art technology.....NOT)
A lot of bad press about Sportshift is just down to plain ignorance, for example a journalist is given a demo car for a day and they push the D button and compare it against an PDK for instance.


Edited by Manwhoneverwas on Saturday 24th January 08:41

JBaps

214 posts

124 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
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Phil74891 said:
I concur with John on the above. 1) can be avoided by not going backwards ...
Dammit, I knew I was doing something wrong! biggrin

ajr550

489 posts

123 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
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Slightly off point I know but in the stick v paddles debate the ability to left foot brake (generally acknowledged to make you faster and safer) cannot be ignored.

hashluck

1,611 posts

274 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
quotequote all
franki68 said:
I'm intrigued about reverse being an on off affair,must make parking fun?
I don't think this applies to the latest Sportshift (7-speed) units as the reverse gear ratio has changed to something more sensible whereas early versions had a ratio where you had to reverse at 40mph or something. I may be wrong but that is my understanding and no issues at all reversing in my MY15 V8VS

JBaps

214 posts

124 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
quotequote all
hashluck said:
I don't think this applies to the latest Sportshift (7-speed) units as the reverse gear ratio has changed to something more sensible whereas early versions had a ratio where you had to reverse at 40mph or something. I may be wrong but that is my understanding and no issues at all reversing in my MY15 V8VS
No it definitely still applies, the reduced ratio no doubt helps but it's still a bit tricky ime, don't get me wrong, it's entirely manageable but reversing in a manual is a much more "controlled" affair.

Edited by JBaps on Saturday 24th January 11:07

hornbaek

3,670 posts

234 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
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I think SS3 is incredibly compromised in 75% of real world driving experiences. Yes at Millbrook and around a track it is great, but try to go tail to tail on a slightly upwards sloping road in stop and go traffic. Horror!

roughrider

975 posts

185 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
quotequote all
franki68 said:
Thanks for the advice,I had an m6 with a similar box so I understand it is a manual with no clutch,and bearing in mind the weather I don't think I will be pushing it hard.
I'm intrigued about reverse being an on off affair,must make parking fun?
Its not really an issue, if you are confident reversing, by that i mean, position the car correctly, so you use as little lock as possible. Full lock creates a lot of resistance, and makes reversing difficult because you have to apply a lot of throttle to move the car, which fully engages the clutch, then you come off the gas, hence the "on/off" description. If you have the time to spare, come to Millbrook on a Performance Driving Course, and we'll talk you through it........
Oh, and "D" mode is great when you realise you can pre-empt each gearshift with your right foot, just the slightest lift, and the car upchanges. By the same token, it has kickdown, and will downshift one, or several gears depending on how hard you stab the throttle pedal.
Hope that made sense??confused

roughrider

975 posts

185 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
quotequote all
hornbaek said:
I think SS3 is incredibly compromised in 75% of real world driving experiences. Yes at Millbrook and around a track it is great, but try to go tail to tail on a slightly upwards sloping road in stop and go traffic. Horror!
Allow a gap to develop, then cover the ground engaging the clutch, and repeat.....its never good to keep slipping a clutch in any manual car.

Jon1967x

7,177 posts

123 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
quotequote all
roughrider said:
hornbaek said:
I think SS3 is incredibly compromised in 75% of real world driving experiences. Yes at Millbrook and around a track it is great, but try to go tail to tail on a slightly upwards sloping road in stop and go traffic. Horror!
Allow a gap to develop, then cover the ground engaging the clutch, and repeat.....its never good to keep slipping a clutch in any manual car.
What he says..
Quick dab of throttle then pull both paddles to drop it into neutral and roll. If you're still moving and the traffic picks up, pull a paddle and engage a gear, if not, have a very gentle stop.