COld/wet weather road legal track day tyre

COld/wet weather road legal track day tyre

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map23

Original Poster:

8 posts

127 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
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I'm continuing my new-found addiction to track days through the winter and am unhappy with my current Toyo T1Rs. A recent outing to Brands with track temperature around zero all day, and rain on-off thru the day, convinced me to look around for a better cold-weather road-legal track tyre. Having looked around the forum, and tyrereviews.com, I've narrowed it down to the following tyres;

Kuhmo v70A - K21 soft compound - these appeal as they seem widely available in various compounds.
Toyo R1R
Yokohama Advan A07s
Michelin Pilot Sport

However, most of the reviews I've seen are by road drivers, not track drivers.

I'd be grateful for any feedback from experienced track drivers who've used any of these tyres regularly on cold or cold/wet track days - when the temperature is in the range of 0-10 degrees? And for any alternatives I may not have considered.

The car is a Mini Cooper S remapped to 240bhp, KW coilovers, Alcon brakes, Team Dynamics, 225/45/R17, roll cage etc.

Thanks

gruffalo

7,509 posts

225 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
I have a completely different concept of car to the mini, less weight, twice the power and rear drive.

The Kumho's are my general tyre of choice, brilliant on my car in the dry with huge grip once warmed up for a lap. In the wet it just frustrates me, I can't explore the upper half of the Rev range at all without lighting up the rears, the car does generally have a huge surfeit of power over grip in the wet what ever tyre. What the Kumho tyres do offer is huge feed back wet or dry but I do think that the T1R (I have used them in the past) would be better in standing water.

The Kumhos need to be warmed up, you may be able to do this in the wet in your car but I can't in mine.


map23

Original Poster:

8 posts

127 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
quotequote all
gruffalo said:
The Kumho's are my general tyre of choice, brilliant on my car in the dry with huge grip once warmed up for a lap. In the wet it just frustrates me, I can't explore the upper half of the Rev range at all without lighting up the rears,
Thanks - Any idea what compound you were using on the Kumhos?

harryowl

1,114 posts

180 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
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We run hard compound kumho v70's on our CRX,fantastic in the dry but struggle to get them up to temperature in even the damp. Bought a set on nankang ns2-r's last year (cheap!) to use when its wet, we're pretty happy with them but haven't used them when it is really wet (standing water) yet.

Chr1sch

2,585 posts

192 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
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I've recently acquired federal 595 rsr's after giving up on Toyo Proxes due to useless wet performance

I have yet to go on track but have given it plenty of grief on a test run in recent grimey weather and I've been very impressed. These appear to be 140 compound based on markings but not 100%

gruffalo

7,509 posts

225 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
quotequote all
map23 said:
gruffalo said:
The Kumho's are my general tyre of choice, brilliant on my car in the dry with huge grip once warmed up for a lap. In the wet it just frustrates me, I can't explore the upper half of the Rev range at all without lighting up the rears,
Thanks - Any idea what compound you were using on the Kumhos?
Medium normally.

radical78

398 posts

143 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
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what car do you have yokahama AO21R work really well on alight car(caterham) but might warm up and feel squirmy on a big heavy saloon

map23

Original Poster:

8 posts

127 months

Sunday 25th January 2015
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radical78 said:
what car do you have yokahama AO21R work really well on alight car(caterham) but might warm up and feel squirmy on a big heavy saloon
Its a mini cooper S bumped to 240bhp - 17 wheels, unfortunately the AO21R's only go up to 15" - thx

map23

Original Poster:

8 posts

127 months

Tuesday 17th February 2015
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Having made a decision, here's some feedback:

In the end I opted for the Michelin Pilot Sport 3 tyres as the feedback on various forums seemed very good.

Took the mini to Brands last Sunday and it was a different vehicle with the Michelins in place of the Toyo T-1Rs. Track temp at 10am was about 4-6c, tyre temp was 10-15c after driving to the track for 30 minutes.

Morning session was just damp enough to throw up some light spray for the first hour or so, and no dry line. Tyres were really very good, no squirming, lots a grip on the front, and rear felt solid the whole session. Tyre temps were getting up to 30c after a few laps. Lapping about 3-5s faster than with the Toyo's. Cars on semi-slicks seemed to be struggling a bit.

Afternoon session track started to dry out, the sun came out, a continuous dry line emerged. Track temp rose to 10c, tyre temps up to 50c after a few laps. Tyres were really very good, huge amounts of grip around Clearways - afternoon lap times 5 seconds off the morning times.

By mid-afternoon spotted some other cars trying out slicks, so the whole cold/wet/damp tyre choice debate became irrelevant, but at least the new tyres performed well first thing.

I've found the whole tyre choice question to be a huge mystery. One well known retailer suggested semi slick Kumhos for winter track driving, while another well known retailed point-blank refused to sell me any tyre for that purpose, claiming no tyre that he sold was manufactured for track driving in the winter. Tyre manufacturers themselves seem to provide very little info on optimal operating temperatures and optimal operating conditions. I guess that's for a reason - presumably they sell more tyres that way, or maybe its just commercial secrecy. Anyway, hope my feedback is of some use to other relatively inexperienced track drivers.


checkmate91

851 posts

172 months

Thursday 19th February 2015
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Next time try the Michelin Pilot Super Sport, it's an excellent all weather tyre (in the south east at least) and AFAIK available in your size. In my experience (on a 2009 Focus RS) it needs a bit of warming up in cold weathers but/and is good in wet and cold conditions and excellent in dry conditions. The only thing it doesn't do particularly well is control lift-off oversteer in the wet, but no tyre that I've tried does, that's a feature of the car smile

In fact, I've reported back to the owners club that these tyres and a hardrace bush replacement is tantamount to a suspension upgrade IMHO.

PhillB

1 posts

109 months

Tuesday 24th February 2015
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Interesting to hear the comments on Michelin Pilot Sport 3 and Super Sport. I'm giving racing a go for the first time this year in a Focus RS Mk2 and have to run tyres from either MSA list 1a or 1b. There seem quite a few semi slick dry tyres available, but not sure what to use if it's raining hard at the start of the race. Till now have mainly used second hand Dunlop slicks in the dry and Dunlop full wets in the wet. Do you think the Super Sport would be good as a wet tyre or would the Sport 3 or somthing else be better?

I've tried Pirelli Trofeo R in the dry which are good but expensive but haven't tried in the wet yet. Conti Force Contact on a slightly icy track early on then melting to wet later, tyres seemed good but chunked down to the canvas on the insides as the track dried. Dunlop Direzza 03G, only tried a very worn set but seemed good on dry track but not much grip on damp track.

Car is around 1,400kg with driver, about 310bhp at the hubs and 235/40 18 or 225/40 18 tyres. Any thoughts or suggestions would be really useful.