Joining the Police
Discussion
mPepperami said:
Interesting stuff.
My cousin was an inspector in the MPD. When just promoted, in 1972, a WPC brought in a stroppy prisoner. He was typing the charge sheet when the chap hit the PC and kicked the desk into my cousin. My cousin stood up with the typewriter in his left arm. As the chap pulled his arm back to hit the woman again, he punched him, fracturing his jaw in two placed, although he emphasised that one was described as a technical fracture.He was sued by the quite rich City banker and the federation defended him. He said to the court: I hit him as hard as I thought necessary, in order not to have to hit him twice as that would have been very dangerous.
The point you make about the paperwork and bureaucracy is one which has been the major problem since 1984. It was bad enough when PACE came online, but it has got considerably worse year on year.
The government knows the problem, as all governments have, but none seem to bother. I have a friend who was a senior officer and has just retired. He suggested that even with the reductions, the police are back to the level of manning in the 80s, when it could cope.
But this is a farcical comparison. The workload has increased tremendously. I once arrested a man for GBH. He was getting ready to go out to a show in London. I processed him within one hour and took him to court the following day, where he pleaded guilty and then it went to crown court for sentence. The paperwork took less than three hours in total.
It was May, I think, who criticised the police for spending too much time in the station. A previous one, under Blair, suggested that the police wanted to stay in the station and were frightened on going out on the street. Blame the police, tell lies about them, to ensure the government is not criticised.
Pepperami said:
If you do get in, please don't become one of the recent breed of cops who appear to be scared of their own shadow. At training school they will basically teach you to be just that, however if you need to shout at someone then do it. If you need to use the odd expletive to get your point across to someone who doesn't understand polite language then do it. If someone needs o be pout down hard, then put them down hard, just don't try and cover it. Be an honest cop. I am very open and honest about any time I use force, and as long as it's reasonable then you can justify it (many times I've used the phrase "I punched him once as hard as I could your worships. It had the desired effect").
Did you ever meet Mr Ian Tomlinson? Big time criminal. He was struck and it had the desired effect.
Your statement here just shows the mentality of many of the people that are employed to uphold the law. I may be wrong but it seems you have a habit of using force not because it is necessary but because its reasonable.
Thats why I mentioned the Tomlinson case. The force used was reasonable (just an innocuos push) but completely unecessary.
Edited by Eclassy on Saturday 31st January 22:12
te" even mean? Pepperami said:
I have to be honest, after 9 years in the job I'm still job p***ed. I probably always will be. I'm nice to the people that are nice, and I'm a complete t**t to the scum. not particularly PC but that's the way I was taught to do the job.
If you do get in, please don't become one of the recent breed of cops who appear to be scared of their own shadow. At training school they will basically teach you to be just that, however if you need to shout at someone then do it. If you need to use the odd expletive to get your point across to someone who doesn't understand polite language then do it. If someone needs o be pout down hard, then put them down hard, just don't try and cover it. Be an honest cop. I am very open and honest about any time I use force, and as long as it's reasonable then you can justify it (many times I've used the phrase "I punched him once as hard as I could your worships. It had the desired effect").
That said, even in my 9 years the job has changed beyond recognition. We have become the catch all for every other services failings and everything then becomes our fault. The paperwork involved is eye watering and there is very little common sense employed by bosses. It's a massively frustrating job at times but there are moments when I absolutely love it. I joined the job to (in geordie terms) knack the sh**e, and that is what I still love doing. I now work on a specialist department which allows me to spend less time stuck to a desk and more time knacking the sh**e. I joined to do 30 years, which has now been extended to 39 with more pension contributions (14% gross) and much less pension to draw at the end. Would I want to do anything else though? No. I love my job, the people I work with are family and I trust them with my life (I work on ARVs so that is literal) and when the planets line up and you have a really good job and lock up a really nasty bad guy or group of bad guys, it's the best feeling in the world.
Good luck mate, the job is, always has been and always will be f***ed. But you get out what out put in. You'll become a cynical, untrusting git with a very dark sense of humour. But it's very rewarding and you'll laugh your bo***cks off every day you're there. Not many jobs have all that.
If you do get in, please don't become one of the recent breed of cops who appear to be scared of their own shadow. At training school they will basically teach you to be just that, however if you need to shout at someone then do it. If you need to use the odd expletive to get your point across to someone who doesn't understand polite language then do it. If someone needs o be pout down hard, then put them down hard, just don't try and cover it. Be an honest cop. I am very open and honest about any time I use force, and as long as it's reasonable then you can justify it (many times I've used the phrase "I punched him once as hard as I could your worships. It had the desired effect").
That said, even in my 9 years the job has changed beyond recognition. We have become the catch all for every other services failings and everything then becomes our fault. The paperwork involved is eye watering and there is very little common sense employed by bosses. It's a massively frustrating job at times but there are moments when I absolutely love it. I joined the job to (in geordie terms) knack the sh**e, and that is what I still love doing. I now work on a specialist department which allows me to spend less time stuck to a desk and more time knacking the sh**e. I joined to do 30 years, which has now been extended to 39 with more pension contributions (14% gross) and much less pension to draw at the end. Would I want to do anything else though? No. I love my job, the people I work with are family and I trust them with my life (I work on ARVs so that is literal) and when the planets line up and you have a really good job and lock up a really nasty bad guy or group of bad guys, it's the best feeling in the world.
Good luck mate, the job is, always has been and always will be f***ed. But you get out what out put in. You'll become a cynical, untrusting git with a very dark sense of humour. But it's very rewarding and you'll laugh your bo***cks off every day you're there. Not many jobs have all that.
Pepperami said:
ED209 said:
Stuff.
Then you should know that particular term is a colloquilism which many people use. It's a simplified way of saying that I put as much effort into banging up bad guys as possible. It doesn't't mean that I use corrupt means or do anything outside the realms of law, just that nasty people need locking up, and I enjoy doing that. Don't see the issue. It's term everyone uses and regardless of whether or not you know who I am, if you are in the job then you'll most likely use the exact same phrase yourself. Eclassy,
I can assure you, just because I have overlooked the use of the world 'reasonable' doesn't mean that I go around using force on anyone. I apologise. Any force that I use is proportionate, lawful, reasonable and necessary. And I am fullyaccountable each and every time I do it.
Edited by Pepperami on Sunday 1st February 14:20
Pepperami said:
Bigends said:
Who/what do you classify as scum then?
I never used the word Scum.The people I enjoy locking up are the prolific offenders. Burglars, violent people, drug dealers, thieves. The people who wake up and commit crime all the way through until they go back to sleep and specialise in making the lives of others a misery. Exactly the type of people that so many people say we should be out catching instead of speeders and dishing out S.59 notices.
Pepperami said:
Bigends said:
' and I'm a complete t**t to the scum. not particularly PC but that's the way I was taught to do the job. '
I'll take that on the chin then. I even 're-read my post to be certain and missed that. Bigends said:
No probs - I was probably of a similar view in my formative years - theres no point and nothing gained by being an arse to people - if you meet again you're straight off on a bad footing. Seems a bit old fashioned now but hate the crime and not the criminal - dealt with a lot of prolific offenders over my last few years - got more out of them for being reasonable. Ignore your trainer and deal with things your way though - youve got a few years in now - form your own views - I know there is often a shift culture which wont often allow that once everyones got into the habit of acting aggressively towards offenders
How very patronising. Greendubber said:
Bigends said:
No probs - I was probably of a similar view in my formative years - theres no point and nothing gained by being an arse to people - if you meet again you're straight off on a bad footing. Seems a bit old fashioned now but hate the crime and not the criminal - dealt with a lot of prolific offenders over my last few years - got more out of them for being reasonable. Ignore your trainer and deal with things your way though - youve got a few years in now - form your own views - I know there is often a shift culture which wont often allow that once everyones got into the habit of acting aggressively towards offenders
How very patronising. Edited by Bigends on Sunday 1st February 19:29
Bigends said:
Maybe but true? No need to treat people like sh*t even if theyve done wrong - comes with time and experience
Not really.I'd say 9 years is more than enough time to learn your trade and know how to deal with someone in an appropriate manner. I'm not saying filling people in but 'yes sir I appreciate you're not happy at being arrested but can I ask you to please stop spitting blood into my face' isn't going to cut the mustard is it?
If someone is being rude, making threats and generally being a right Herbert towards me then its down to business in the most direct manner and if that includes stopping the pleasantries then so be it as I'm not paid enough to be a punch bag or get sworn at.
Say for example you do a method of entry on a dealers house. Its no pink and fluffy wake up is it? Dragged out of bed, cuffed up and dragged out the house. I'm sure that is the manner in which he was referring to. The circumstances dictate the way in which a person is dealt with.
Elroy Blue said:
Bigends said:
Maybe but true? No need to treat people like sh*t even if theyve done wrong - comes with time and experience
A bit like knowing the ins and outs of traffic stops. But that didn't seem to help you on previous threads.If youve any time in you'll know exactly what i'm getting at on this post -or is ok to post that offenders are tw^ts and what you do with them.
Elroy Blue said:
I'm in my third decade....and I still think you're a Walt.
If you say so - wait till youve got your thirty in then youll be on level terms in time and experience. I was fortunate - had the best of Policing times and had a cracking time - not my fault youre all pi**ed off with the job now and get the arse if questioned over what you do. I'm still dealing with officers every day and have a good idea of the problems now and assist them wherever I can and keep more out of the sh*it than you can possible imagine (including those in their 3rd decade ) I'm now in my 4th decade in the jobEdited by Bigends on Sunday 1st February 19:50
Edited by Bigends on Sunday 1st February 19:55
Elroy Blue said:
I'm in my third decade....and I still think you're a Walt.
He posted pics of his gongs within 20 mins of me suggesting it. He's certainly not a fantacist. Plus who would want to pretend to be a policeman 
it's hardly something that's likely to get you free drinks down the pub..,I don't think he's a fantasist. I think he's just a bit hypocritical, and a bit too quick to jump on his moral high horse now that he's not in the job. The second he's out, he's more than willing to jump down serving officers throats if they suggest something not in keeping with his new, strictly by the book procedures, despite freely admitting he did them himself before retiring.
And working in crime recording does not count as still being in the police! Although I wish our crime recording unit would "help cops" on as regular basis as you claim to BE!
And working in crime recording does not count as still being in the police! Although I wish our crime recording unit would "help cops" on as regular basis as you claim to BE!
Mk3Spitfire said:
I don't think he's a fantasist. I think he's just a bit hypocritical, and a bit too quick to jump on his moral high horse now that he's not in the job. The second he's out, he's more than willing to jump down serving officers throats if they suggest something not in keeping with his new, strictly by the book procedures, despite freely admitting he did them himself before retiring.
And working in crime recording does not count as still being in the police! Although I wish our crime recording unit would "help cops" on as regular basis as you claim to BE!
Whoah there - not jumping down anyones throats - just giving a view - hardly just out - retired 05 - I was certainly never always by the book when I was in - but I have to now...thats my job and what they pay me to do...and yours by the way. Cetainly wouldnt have put into writing some of the views being expressed by serving cops on here now. All I said earlier on this forum was yes - I had those same views and opinions but learnt to change with experience.And working in crime recording does not count as still being in the police! Although I wish our crime recording unit would "help cops" on as regular basis as you claim to BE!
As a unit my lot has a good reputation within the force - predominately ex cops.
Ok 4th decade within the organisation working
Bigends said:
Whoah there - not jumping down anyones throats - just giving a view - hardly just out - retired 05 - I was certainly never always by the book when I was in - but I have to now...thats my job and what they pay me to do...and yours by the way. Cetainly wouldnt have put into writing some of the views being expressed by serving cops on here now. All I said earlier on this forum was yes - I had those same views and opinions but learnt to change with experience.
As a unit my lot has a good reputation within the force - predominately ex cops.
Ok 4th decade within the organisation working
You do jump down throats. Well, IMO anyway. You almost come across as anti police sometimes. Surely it was your job to be by the book when you were front line too? As a unit my lot has a good reputation within the force - predominately ex cops.
Ok 4th decade within the organisation working
I'm not just on about your comments on this thread, but numerous other ones. I'm also not having a go by the way, because I really don't care that much.
I don't really think I've seen any serving cops post anything that out of order either, certainly not to someone who knows the score anyway. The exception being Pepperami perhaps! But I think he just used a different way of explaining, and as GD or EB put it, when you've got some granny mugging, serial offender spitting blood in your face, there's not always the time to chew the fat and exchange pleasantries.
I pride myself on being accountable and transparent. There's enough baddies out there without the need to make up grounds for searches or give people grief for driving offences etc. if they've done it, they've done it. If they haven't, have a chat, a laugh and be on your way, and look for the ones who are in the wrong. Worked well for me so far.
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