Alfa GTV 20V Turbo

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Discussion

Liquid Knight

Original Poster:

15,754 posts

182 months

Sunday 25th January 2015
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As some of you may know I have a rather splendid and frustrating Alfa GTV Lusso.



I really like the styling, the interior, road presence, economy and handling but the oh so typical Alfa melted fuse box means I have no interior fan and even though the twinspark is much better than my old N/A 16V Fiat Coupe I can't help but feel the car needs a little more.
She's a great commuter and I've been enjoying the mostly "A" and "B" road route to work (anything more challenging and the suspension can't keep up).

I have been entertaining the prospect of turbo or supercharging the Twinspark engine. Apparently the 1.9 JTD exhaust manifold fits the engine and the addition of a proper turbo running low boost while the compression ration is standard is fairly straight forward but; as the GTV is a shared platform with the 156 and Fiat Coupe'/Marea/Bravo/Brava and so on and those have an option of a 2.4 20V would a 20V Turbo engine fit the GTV engine bay?

Obviously Fiat Coupe' 20V Turbo engines are a bit of a gamble due to the donor cars being Council Estate chic. Stilo 2.5 blocks with Coupe turbo bits have seen in excess of 500bhp but I don't want to go mad and have an expensive rebuild. I work a lot with the Police service and have been offered an ex-Interceptor 2.3 20V Turbo Volvo T5 for very little money and that engine is bombproof, well looked after and easy to find another (pensioner spec' auto that's hardly seen the light of day) unit should it fail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwLP4G9zQPc

If a Fiat engine fits I wonder if the Volvo lump will. scratchchin

Liquid Knight

Original Poster:

15,754 posts

182 months

Sunday 25th January 2015
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147 JTD manifold gasket...



...GTV 2.0 TS manifold gasket.





rolleyes


Nigel_O

2,858 posts

218 months

Sunday 25th January 2015
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I don't think I've ever seen it tried - IIRC, the suspension turrets on the GTV are very different to the Coupe, which probably means the five-pot won't fit

I can measure between the turrets on my Coupe if you need a reference point

FWIW, a well-modded 20vt lump will obliterate any of the Alfa engines, including the V6 (although I'll readily accept that it won't sound as good)

waynedear

2,157 posts

166 months

Sunday 25th January 2015
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Fiat coupe 16 v turbo might be a better bet, I know of a good few people running the 20v lumps in Alfa 155/145/146 anything is doable

sunbeam alpine

6,936 posts

187 months

Sunday 25th January 2015
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You can get a V6 2.0 turbo version in Europe (I think it makes 220 BHP standard)

Maybe worth a look?

rijmij99

423 posts

160 months

Monday 26th January 2015
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sunbeam alpine said:
You can get a V6 2.0 turbo version in Europe (I think it makes 220 BHP standard)

Maybe worth a look?
Ahhhhh the mythical Italian tax dodger!

If only they were easily available I'm certain someone would have hammered the turbines on to a 3.2 by now

sunbeam alpine

6,936 posts

187 months

Monday 26th January 2015
quotequote all
rijmij99 said:
sunbeam alpine said:
You can get a V6 2.0 turbo version in Europe (I think it makes 220 BHP standard)

Maybe worth a look?
Ahhhhh the mythical Italian tax dodger!

If only they were easily available I'm certain someone would have hammered the turbines on to a 3.2 by now
There are loads available in Europe for very little money.

ShiningWit

10,203 posts

127 months

Monday 26th January 2015
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The Alfa I4 was never a very strong engine, it'll probably collapse when its got forced induction unless other parts are highly modified.
Stick a 16vt in it, anything 5cyl will probably give full steering lock issues....

'(anything more challenging and the suspension can't keep up)'
This is going to get much worse with all that extra weight up front....

Liquid Knight

Original Poster:

15,754 posts

182 months

Monday 26th January 2015
quotequote all
The 16V Turbo transplant has been done before but finding a decent enough donor that isn't worth keeping is near impossible.

There are only 72 16V Turbo's left on the road so it would be a sacrifice too far.

My other option is the squeeze the T5 in the middle of my X1/9

At least then steering lock won't be an issue. wink

viggyp

1,917 posts

134 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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Liquid Knight said:
The 16V Turbo transplant has been done before but finding a decent enough donor that isn't worth keeping is near impossible.

There are only 72 16V Turbo's left on the road so it would be a sacrifice too far.

My other option is the squeeze the T5 in the middle of my X1/9

At least then steering lock won't be an issue. wink
Do you mean 72 16VT coupes left on the road? The engines were also available in the Delta Integrale's and Thema's so probably a lot more out there then you think to be honest.

Evoluzione

10,345 posts

242 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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viggyp said:
Liquid Knight said:
The 16V Turbo transplant has been done before but finding a decent enough donor that isn't worth keeping is near impossible.

There are only 72 16V Turbo's left on the road so it would be a sacrifice too far.

My other option is the squeeze the T5 in the middle of my X1/9

At least then steering lock won't be an issue. wink
Do you mean 72 16VT Coupes left on the road? The engines were also available in the Delta Integrales and Themas so probably a lot more out there then you think to be honest.
Yes that is what he meant. A whole 16vt can be had for £500, you'll pay twice that for just the engine from an integrale and then have to find an ECU, sump, gearbox, wiring loom etc.
Their aren't many Themas being broken and if you found one you would still have to get an ECU and wiring loom to run it.

Liquid Knight

Original Poster:

15,754 posts

182 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
viggyp said:
Liquid Knight said:
The 16V Turbo transplant has been done before but finding a decent enough donor that isn't worth keeping is near impossible.

There are only 72 16V Turbo's left on the road so it would be a sacrifice too far.

My other option is the squeeze the T5 in the middle of my X1/9

At least then steering lock won't be an issue. wink
Do you mean 72 16VT coupes left on the road? The engines were also available in the Delta Integrale's and Thema's so probably a lot more out there then you think to be honest.
Yes only seventy two Fiat Coupe' 16V Turbo cars left on the road. It's a crying shame as I prefer the 16V Turbo to the 20V Turbo. The platform was better suited to the application, the 16V engine was more tunable and produced a better torque curve.

I know that engine was used previously but to keep the 52-reg I would need a car that at least had a catalytic converter.

Also why sacrifice a Thema, Dedra or Delta for a GTV? Those car would be more worthwhile and more fun. The GTV has the show and the Twinspark is enough for normal road use an occasional Audi baiting but I would really like to see what the platform can do unleashed (and I can't afford a V6 yet so modifying my car is a way around it).

ShiningWit

10,203 posts

127 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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Why sacrifice a Volvo T5?
Why not just buy and run a Coupe 16vt....

You can't make omelettes without breaking eggs...

Liquid Knight

Original Poster:

15,754 posts

182 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
ShiningWit said:
Why sacrifice a Volvo T5?

Why not just buy and run a Coupe 16vt?

You can't make omelettes without breaking eggs...
Because there are millions of V70 T5's. Okay this is the rarer T5R but still very common.

Believe me "Fiat Coupe 16V Turbo" is second only to Alfa 155 on my search lists.

Oh crud!

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/alfa_romeo_g...

There are only 144 Lusso twinsparks left. rolleyes

My Alfa is almost as rare as my X1/9

I wonder out of the 144 GTV Lusso twinsparks left how many have a fuse box that hasn't bloody melted? hehe

ShiningWit

10,203 posts

127 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
Liquid Knight said:
Believe me "Fiat Coupe 16V Turbo" is second only to Alfa 155 on my search lists.

You didn't fancy the silver one in Wales which finished yesterday? £510....

Liquid Knight

Original Poster:

15,754 posts

182 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
ShiningWit said:
Liquid Knight said:
Believe me "Fiat Coupe 16V Turbo" is second only to Alfa 155 on my search lists.

You didn't fancy the silver one in Wales which finished yesterday? £510....
Not without the money in my pocket to pay for it. £510 is either the bargain of the year or a bottomless pit.

Does anyone fancy a nice 916 GTV with the usual fusebox issue? wink

SWH

1,261 posts

201 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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I have a cambelt failure 3.0 V6 engine sat in what's left of a GTV in a field in Devon if you're feeling brave... although it's probably better suited to being turned into a coffee table by now. It was a 15 owner RHD converted import too, so likely to have been more than a little abused (I just needed the bonnet, bumper, radiator and headlights!).

5 pot maybe tight between the suspension towers I think, not much space in there anyway... Just need someone with a 20V engine to get the tape measure out I guess.

Popping a Fiat Coupe 20V turbo unit into a GTV would upset the Coupe vs GTV boys as well, all the more reason to do it really.

Or really upset people and pop the 2.4 oil burner in there!

viggyp

1,917 posts

134 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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Evoluzione said:
viggyp said:
Liquid Knight said:
The 16V Turbo transplant has been done before but finding a decent enough donor that isn't worth keeping is near impossible.

There are only 72 16V Turbo's left on the road so it would be a sacrifice too far.

My other option is the squeeze the T5 in the middle of my X1/9

At least then steering lock won't be an issue. wink
Do you mean 72 16VT Coupes left on the road? The engines were also available in the Delta Integrales and Themas so probably a lot more out there then you think to be honest.
Yes that is what he meant. A whole 16vt can be had for £500, you'll pay twice that for just the engine from an integrale and then have to find an ECU, sump, gearbox, wiring loom etc.
Their aren't many Themas being broken and if you found one you would still have to get an ECU and wiring loom to run it.
Yeah, very good point regarding all you've said. Easier to get everything from a broken coupe then odds and sods from different cars.

I have just been on a group on Facebook called a Turbo Collective which deals specifically with Uno Turbos and there is a pic of a GTV with the Fiat 5 Cyl dropped into it. Looked like one hell of a conversion.

RicksAlfas

13,354 posts

243 months

Wednesday 28th January 2015
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SWH said:
Or really upset people and pop the 2.4 oil burner in there!
I'm sure I've seen that done somewhere.

Liquid Knight

Original Poster:

15,754 posts

182 months

Wednesday 28th January 2015
quotequote all
SWH said:
I have a cambelt failure 3.0 V6 engine sat in what's left of a GTV in a field in Devon if you're feeling brave... although it's probably better suited to being turned into a coffee table by now. It was a 15 owner RHD converted import too, so likely to have been more than a little abused (I just needed the bonnet, bumper, radiator and headlights!).

5 pot maybe tight between the suspension towers I think, not much space in there anyway... Just need someone with a 20V engine to get the tape measure out I guess.

Popping a Fiat Coupe 20V turbo unit into a GTV would upset the Coupe vs GTV boys as well, all the more reason to do it really.

Or really upset people and pop the 2.4 oil burner in there!
Shame Devon is the other end of the country for me. There are a couple of cheap 2.5 V6's on eBay at the moment.

Wish I hadn't looked now there's this rather lovely P4 164 with a few hours to go.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1994-L-ALFA-ROMEO-164-3-...