Potential to loose £10k from the sale of my car! HELP! SCAM
Discussion
Hi
I won't mention any names in this yet but I'd really appreciate your advice.
I advertised my car for sale on Pistonheads in August last year, a top spec mini cooper works, a few days later i got an email from someone suggesting they could sell the car for me on Sale or return. I looked into the dealership and it looked very reputable...i left it a few days and then decided to go and see the dealer. I rocked up and there was a VERY flashy car on the forecourt with some very high end stock for sale, the dealer has been there for about 20 years. Absolutely NO ALARM BELLS.
I took my very wise other half with me and we decided to let this dealer sell the car on sale or return. We signed a contract with him stating that we authorised him to sell the car for us and he'd return us the agreed price via BACS with him stating. "It is very important that on the day of the sale you answer your phone so you can email him confirmation that i pass title so he then has the right to sell the car" i.e. "Hi Jon Doe (name of the dealer) I give you title on the car for you to sell to the agreed person".
A few weeks went by...so I pinged him an email...no offers yet..fair enough I thought. Then the weeks started rolling by until I emailed him and he said he had someone interested if i could knock £800 off the price...i agreed and he confirmed he had taken a £3,000 deposit from the guy but he was in the military and would take the car on his return at Christmas (I'd originally dropped the car off on 30th August 2014). Fine I thought job done, Christmas and new year came and went, so I chased him up and then last week (18th January 2015) I emailed him and he said it was job done the car was sold and his accounts department would be in touch with payment.
Today 27th Jan 2015 I start thinking this is weird it's taking a very long time to settle this payment. I decide to search for some reviews of the dealer and BANG you guessed it...a lot of disgruntled customers with one even talking about the delay caused by the military guy who had supposedly bought his sale or return car. This guy did end up getting his money but after taking legal action. Most of the reviews talking about the sale or return scam are in the last 6 months. He also dropped in he was FSA approved (i looked into it earlier that lapsed in 2010!)
I have spoken to the DVLA who although they wouldn't give me the date that the new ownership changed they were able to help me by telling me that the tax refund went through in November so that's when the car must have been sold.
To have sold the car surely i would have had to have signed the V5 log book passing the new owner the rights to the car? Can I play equally dirty here and phone the police and tell them the car was stolen?
I'm going to speak with my solicitor in the morning to see what the best course of action is but what do you guys think i should do? He may pay me tomorrow for all i know but having read a like for like situation which went all the way down the legal route...I doubt it.
I won't mention any names in this yet but I'd really appreciate your advice.
I advertised my car for sale on Pistonheads in August last year, a top spec mini cooper works, a few days later i got an email from someone suggesting they could sell the car for me on Sale or return. I looked into the dealership and it looked very reputable...i left it a few days and then decided to go and see the dealer. I rocked up and there was a VERY flashy car on the forecourt with some very high end stock for sale, the dealer has been there for about 20 years. Absolutely NO ALARM BELLS.
I took my very wise other half with me and we decided to let this dealer sell the car on sale or return. We signed a contract with him stating that we authorised him to sell the car for us and he'd return us the agreed price via BACS with him stating. "It is very important that on the day of the sale you answer your phone so you can email him confirmation that i pass title so he then has the right to sell the car" i.e. "Hi Jon Doe (name of the dealer) I give you title on the car for you to sell to the agreed person".
A few weeks went by...so I pinged him an email...no offers yet..fair enough I thought. Then the weeks started rolling by until I emailed him and he said he had someone interested if i could knock £800 off the price...i agreed and he confirmed he had taken a £3,000 deposit from the guy but he was in the military and would take the car on his return at Christmas (I'd originally dropped the car off on 30th August 2014). Fine I thought job done, Christmas and new year came and went, so I chased him up and then last week (18th January 2015) I emailed him and he said it was job done the car was sold and his accounts department would be in touch with payment.
Today 27th Jan 2015 I start thinking this is weird it's taking a very long time to settle this payment. I decide to search for some reviews of the dealer and BANG you guessed it...a lot of disgruntled customers with one even talking about the delay caused by the military guy who had supposedly bought his sale or return car. This guy did end up getting his money but after taking legal action. Most of the reviews talking about the sale or return scam are in the last 6 months. He also dropped in he was FSA approved (i looked into it earlier that lapsed in 2010!)
I have spoken to the DVLA who although they wouldn't give me the date that the new ownership changed they were able to help me by telling me that the tax refund went through in November so that's when the car must have been sold.
To have sold the car surely i would have had to have signed the V5 log book passing the new owner the rights to the car? Can I play equally dirty here and phone the police and tell them the car was stolen?
I'm going to speak with my solicitor in the morning to see what the best course of action is but what do you guys think i should do? He may pay me tomorrow for all i know but having read a like for like situation which went all the way down the legal route...I doubt it.
Edited by alwoodman on Thursday 29th January 10:33
craste said:
Imagine if you rounded up a load of forum members up and just landed at the showroom.
Like them things at train stations and then when the music starts they all dance, but in the showroom they all nicey ask for your money back!
That would be fun!
A room filled with powerfully built company directors with backpacks filled with frozen sausages. He will surely concede.Like them things at train stations and then when the music starts they all dance, but in the showroom they all nicey ask for your money back!
That would be fun!
Hire a luton van and park it in front of his showroom with banners on the side explaining what he did, do a company director check and get his home address, knock on all his neighbours doors, follow him around tesco on a saturday, you need to remind him that you want whats yours and you aint going away quietly!!
Anybody who leaves any car (or motorbike) with ANY dealer, even if they have been in business many many years takes a very grave risk of losing their car/and or money.
Don't want to go into details but trust me, I have first hand experience in these matters.
You MAY be lucky, but just be aware you are taking a (huge) risk.
(Apolgies to honest dealerships that run a legit SOR operation)
Don't want to go into details but trust me, I have first hand experience in these matters.
You MAY be lucky, but just be aware you are taking a (huge) risk.
(Apolgies to honest dealerships that run a legit SOR operation)
t.Report the car as stolen.
Get crime number.
Contact DVLA with crime number and request for new keeper's details.
Approach new keeper and recover car.
This would (theoretically) work, if only you hadn't sent the "pass title" (did he mean property?) email. Although, with my pub lawyer hat on, wouldn't there need to be a consideration for that contract to be valid? Did the dealer pay you even 1p for the title?
Get crime number.
Contact DVLA with crime number and request for new keeper's details.
Approach new keeper and recover car.
This would (theoretically) work, if only you hadn't sent the "pass title" (did he mean property?) email. Although, with my pub lawyer hat on, wouldn't there need to be a consideration for that contract to be valid? Did the dealer pay you even 1p for the title?
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