New Countach Owner needs some help please
Discussion
Hi, I'm new to Lamborghini ownership as up until now I've always had Porsches. I decided I needed to add a Countach to my collection before prices got too far away. I've bought a 25 year Anniversary car, 1 owner and 13k kms. I bought directly off the original owner from Italy and flew down to inspect it. When I was viewing the car the owner started it no problem and seemed fine. Now it's back it simply doesn't want to start.
Are they notoriously difficult to start, or some special approach to starting. Maybe just being difficult due to lack of use. Any ideas from other owners much appreciated.
Are they notoriously difficult to start, or some special approach to starting. Maybe just being difficult due to lack of use. Any ideas from other owners much appreciated.
gt2-r said:
Hi, I'm new to Lamborghini ownership as up until now I've always had Porsches. I decided I needed to add a Countach to my collection before prices got too far away. I've bought a 25 year Anniversary car, 1 owner and 13k kms. I bought directly off the original owner from Italy and flew down to inspect it. When I was viewing the car the owner started it no problem and seemed fine. Now it's back it simply doesn't want to start.
Are they notoriously difficult to start, or some special approach to starting. Maybe just being difficult due to lack of use. Any ideas from other owners much appreciated.
Nothing much to add but I would recommend asking the previous owner (if you haven't already). I imagine he will know any tricks to getting it going. Other than that you would need to post the symptoms of it 'not starting' to get any other help.Are they notoriously difficult to start, or some special approach to starting. Maybe just being difficult due to lack of use. Any ideas from other owners much appreciated.
is the car completely dead or does the engine turn over but just fail to start?
normal starting procedure is several pumps on the throttle to prime the carbs before attempting to start it - do this before each attempt
otherwise ensure battery is OK and lastly you could have an issue with your ignition pack as they are notoriously poor - you can get much better aftermarket replacements
normal starting procedure is several pumps on the throttle to prime the carbs before attempting to start it - do this before each attempt
otherwise ensure battery is OK and lastly you could have an issue with your ignition pack as they are notoriously poor - you can get much better aftermarket replacements
Thanks for the replies so far. Ok had a response from the owner, and he says to be careful with the throttle pumping before start as it's quite easy to flood the spark. I removed all the plugs and sure enough they are very very wet, so safe to say I flooded it. Having said that I now turned it over with one of the plugs out, but plugged in the HT lead and plug body earthed off the engine. The sparks are very very weak, so seems to tie in with the pointer that they are notorious for being weak.
I'm assuming it's the coil packs that are rubbish. What's the recommended replacements, or any recommended specialists I can use. Thanks for your help.
I'll post some pics soon. Originally I wanted Red with Tan, but the one I've bought is Red with Black. Puts a huge grin on your face just opening the garage now. Wife thinks it's incredibly crass, but what do they know. lol.
I'm assuming it's the coil packs that are rubbish. What's the recommended replacements, or any recommended specialists I can use. Thanks for your help.
I'll post some pics soon. Originally I wanted Red with Tan, but the one I've bought is Red with Black. Puts a huge grin on your face just opening the garage now. Wife thinks it's incredibly crass, but what do they know. lol.
Craig said:
normal starting procedure is several pumps on the throttle to prime the carbs before attempting to start it - do this before each attempt
Mine's a carb fed 5000s so I do exactly as per Craig. Not sure if Anniversaries are Carb or Pi, so that may be why it's flooding and therefore not required.The best ignition pack replacments to use are from here (I can vouch for them)
http://www.countach.ch/Sale.html
Raymond who runs the business is very helpful and owns the ex-Mimran Countach - he posts on Lamborghini Talk and there is a good thread here:
http://www.lamborghini-talk.com/vbforum/f43/msd-ig...
http://www.countach.ch/Sale.html
Raymond who runs the business is very helpful and owns the ex-Mimran Countach - he posts on Lamborghini Talk and there is a good thread here:
http://www.lamborghini-talk.com/vbforum/f43/msd-ig...
Thanks for the links to the ignition pack upgrades. I'll check to see if the original Marelli one is installed and if so I'm inclined to think that's the problem, since the spark is very very weak currently.
Yes it's an original Italian delivery euro spec with the 6 downdraft double Webers.
Yes it's an original Italian delivery euro spec with the 6 downdraft double Webers.
As others have stated, pump the accelerator prior to starting. i also pump a bit whilst it turms over. New battery would be useful. But try with jump leads first.
Mike Pullen at Carera Sport looks to be nearest to you. he's based in Haywards Heath near Brighton. Considered to be one of the best specialists in the UK. Give him a call if needed.
Post a picture when you get a min!
My wife loves the QV, she wants to get out in it as much as i do.
Good luck
Rob
Mike Pullen at Carera Sport looks to be nearest to you. he's based in Haywards Heath near Brighton. Considered to be one of the best specialists in the UK. Give him a call if needed.
Post a picture when you get a min!
My wife loves the QV, she wants to get out in it as much as i do.
Good luck
Rob
welcome to the countach universe
make sure the battery is man enough for the job, esp with the cold weather that we currently have
you can set your personal big ben with the timing of the ignition box failing
my first box failed 12 years after the car was built, and I replaced it with what was then the last magnetti marelli box sitting on the factory shelves
exactly 12 years later , the 2nd box failed , and I replaced it with the only non standard part currently on my 881/2 5000QV----a MSD box
I must say that the car performs better with the MSD box
with the MARELLI BOX, I turned the ignition key to its 2 nd click , at which stage a whirring noise began, and then waited for about 30 secs, and then pumped the accelerator pedal between 3 and 6 times depending on the ambient temperature, before starting the engine by going on to the 3 click position
with the MSD box , exactly the same procedure , except there is now no whirring noise when in the 2nd click position
there is a list of fuses and relays at the back of the owners manual, and you might want to check that these are all working
there are fuses and relays in the passenger footwell as well as behind the passenger side (at least on a rhd car) panel of the boot
those wonderful AA men , have helped me out when a fuse or relay that I have been unable to locate/identify/diagnose has been the prob , and you might want to see if it is something simple that they can help with
anything more than that, and you are best advised to get specialist help---Roberto grimaldi does my servicing , and he and Annabel are superb
you really don't want , just anyone, meddling with the car
best of luck , and keep us informed
make sure the battery is man enough for the job, esp with the cold weather that we currently have
you can set your personal big ben with the timing of the ignition box failing
my first box failed 12 years after the car was built, and I replaced it with what was then the last magnetti marelli box sitting on the factory shelves
exactly 12 years later , the 2nd box failed , and I replaced it with the only non standard part currently on my 881/2 5000QV----a MSD box
I must say that the car performs better with the MSD box
with the MARELLI BOX, I turned the ignition key to its 2 nd click , at which stage a whirring noise began, and then waited for about 30 secs, and then pumped the accelerator pedal between 3 and 6 times depending on the ambient temperature, before starting the engine by going on to the 3 click position
with the MSD box , exactly the same procedure , except there is now no whirring noise when in the 2nd click position
there is a list of fuses and relays at the back of the owners manual, and you might want to check that these are all working
there are fuses and relays in the passenger footwell as well as behind the passenger side (at least on a rhd car) panel of the boot
those wonderful AA men , have helped me out when a fuse or relay that I have been unable to locate/identify/diagnose has been the prob , and you might want to see if it is something simple that they can help with
anything more than that, and you are best advised to get specialist help---Roberto grimaldi does my servicing , and he and Annabel are superb
you really don't want , just anyone, meddling with the car
best of luck , and keep us informed
Hi
I would go for the recommendation of Raymonds box. I put one in mine and it improves the mid range and top end spark quite a bit but makes no difference to starting.
If the engine is cold then it needs about 5 -6 prods to prime the carbs. It may stutter a bit and you need to be delicate at feeding in the throttle to catch it and then feather it a bit until it runs cleanly.
When hot, just use about 1/4 inch of throttle and it should catch almost immediately. just be gentle in feeding in the throttle after it catches and it should be fine.
If there is a persistent problem and it doesn't want to start it is likely to be the ignition relays. They are cheap to replace. They can easily disguise a lot of problems. However normally the car simply wouldn't start if they are away.
They do require a lot of power to start them and a god battery is essential. The easy way to check that is put a power pack on the battery and then try to start. If it starts almost instantly then it could be the issue.
The ignition working on the cars is crap. Everything goes through the ignition including the fas although I am not sure if they changed this on the anni. If you have too much heat through the ignition wiring then a possible divert of fan function for hot starting could help.
If in doubt give me a call.
Old cars need a bit of a technique to start and having lots of them I suppose i am just used to it.
If you drive the car every day then in my case the cold starting is almost instantaneous as opposed to going to it every few weeks.
Paul
I would go for the recommendation of Raymonds box. I put one in mine and it improves the mid range and top end spark quite a bit but makes no difference to starting.
If the engine is cold then it needs about 5 -6 prods to prime the carbs. It may stutter a bit and you need to be delicate at feeding in the throttle to catch it and then feather it a bit until it runs cleanly.
When hot, just use about 1/4 inch of throttle and it should catch almost immediately. just be gentle in feeding in the throttle after it catches and it should be fine.
If there is a persistent problem and it doesn't want to start it is likely to be the ignition relays. They are cheap to replace. They can easily disguise a lot of problems. However normally the car simply wouldn't start if they are away.
They do require a lot of power to start them and a god battery is essential. The easy way to check that is put a power pack on the battery and then try to start. If it starts almost instantly then it could be the issue.
The ignition working on the cars is crap. Everything goes through the ignition including the fas although I am not sure if they changed this on the anni. If you have too much heat through the ignition wiring then a possible divert of fan function for hot starting could help.
If in doubt give me a call.
Old cars need a bit of a technique to start and having lots of them I suppose i am just used to it.
If you drive the car every day then in my case the cold starting is almost instantaneous as opposed to going to it every few weeks.
Paul
Lots more useful advice, thanks guys. I should get chance to have another look at it tomorrow. Definitely got enough battery juice as I've connected up a super big one off one of my tractors, and engine is turning over quickly. I'll let you know how it goes after tomorrow, and take some pictures to post up.
gt2-r said:
Hi, I'm new to Lamborghini ownership as up until now I've always had Porsches. I decided I needed to add a Countach to my collection before prices got too far away. I've bought a 25 year Anniversary car, 1 owner and 13k kms. I bought directly off the original owner from Italy and flew down to inspect it. When I was viewing the car the owner started it no problem and seemed fine. Now it's back it simply doesn't want to start.
Are they notoriously difficult to start, or some special approach to starting. Maybe just being difficult due to lack of use. Any ideas from other owners much appreciated.
Firstly, welcome to the club! I bought my Countach 18 months ago and love it. She's an old girl so got to treat her a little more gently than something modern but apart from that, I love it!Are they notoriously difficult to start, or some special approach to starting. Maybe just being difficult due to lack of use. Any ideas from other owners much appreciated.
Re starting the car, as already said a few pumps of the throttle should be enough, definitely takes a bit of getting used to (even I feel I haven't full got the hang of it yet).
One thing I've wondered is, are there any aftermarket options that can be fitted to make starting it any easier? I have a Panther DeVille that uses 1970s Jag V12 and whilst looking through its history folder I has at some point had an "electronic ignition kit" fitted. I've never had a problem starting it. Could this sort of thing be done to the Countach?
Hope you enjoy the car and please post some pictures!!
Hello again!
the Countach does have electronic ignition with a big very old fashioned marelli unit. The main problem is this is a 12 cylinder engine needing a lot of spark and power to get it going and keeping it going. They do therefore tend to be quite power hungry compared to most other cars of the period even with 12 cylinder engines.
The Marelli ignition module was quite old hat and I believe used right through to the Anni, although by then it had been shoved in the boot as opposed to under the n/s wing.
When I used Raymonds MSD unit it has its own special high power coil. The differences were immediately obvious.
I didnt find it made much of a difference in starting, as mine has always been a good car for that.
What I did notice was the mid range smoothness and high end spark. I found the high end was a little thin and you can hear that at say 6500-750rpm when the engine note changes. With the new box the note was the same at peak and much cleaner pull due to more consistent spark.
Mid range there was also a better flow.
In short a consistent high spark through the rev range. I also got about 1-2mpg better, so on a long run at motorway speeds of say 70-100 I could get 15-17mpg.
The rest of the distributor on single models and relays are all old designs. One local guy in Birmingham has done away with it and put direct injection in.
If in doubt change the relays. some of the other modules are more difficult to source.
Another possible issue is wear inside the distributor to the weights etc which would throw the timing out a bit and make it difficult to start.
the Countach does have electronic ignition with a big very old fashioned marelli unit. The main problem is this is a 12 cylinder engine needing a lot of spark and power to get it going and keeping it going. They do therefore tend to be quite power hungry compared to most other cars of the period even with 12 cylinder engines.
The Marelli ignition module was quite old hat and I believe used right through to the Anni, although by then it had been shoved in the boot as opposed to under the n/s wing.
When I used Raymonds MSD unit it has its own special high power coil. The differences were immediately obvious.
I didnt find it made much of a difference in starting, as mine has always been a good car for that.
What I did notice was the mid range smoothness and high end spark. I found the high end was a little thin and you can hear that at say 6500-750rpm when the engine note changes. With the new box the note was the same at peak and much cleaner pull due to more consistent spark.
Mid range there was also a better flow.
In short a consistent high spark through the rev range. I also got about 1-2mpg better, so on a long run at motorway speeds of say 70-100 I could get 15-17mpg.
The rest of the distributor on single models and relays are all old designs. One local guy in Birmingham has done away with it and put direct injection in.
If in doubt change the relays. some of the other modules are more difficult to source.
Another possible issue is wear inside the distributor to the weights etc which would throw the timing out a bit and make it difficult to start.
I've taken some pictures of the new addition to my collection, but unfortunately they are not great quality as the weathers been far too crap to get the cars out. It's a bit crammed in by the Germans to get a nice full view. I'll take some better pics once the spring arrives. I'm very pleased with the new toy, even though I've not actually used it in anger yet.
Paul
Not sure what those other cars are in the background? Don't look very Italian to me!
It is quite like the early 911's in steering feedback as it tells you exactly what is happening.
As most of those look water cooled and so you won't know what a water temp gauge is, please find it on your car and state at it regularly. Probably the most important gauge on an old Italian car.
It looks nice. Health and happiness to enjoy it. Let them warm up and then use the full rev range up to 7500. The kick from 5000 is damn impressive and still take most people by surprise.
Paul
Not sure what those other cars are in the background? Don't look very Italian to me!
It is quite like the early 911's in steering feedback as it tells you exactly what is happening.
As most of those look water cooled and so you won't know what a water temp gauge is, please find it on your car and state at it regularly. Probably the most important gauge on an old Italian car.
It looks nice. Health and happiness to enjoy it. Let them warm up and then use the full rev range up to 7500. The kick from 5000 is damn impressive and still take most people by surprise.
Paul
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