Speeding and insurance question (issue!)
Discussion
First speeding ticket in 10+ years of driving - doh!
About a month ago I was caught speeding in a friends car - bang to right's it was me. He got the NIP called me and without hesitation told him my details to send back; which he did. I then in turn received the NIP, now addressed to me through the post which I duly returned with all the correct details and my signature.
However;
I borrowed the car using my own insurance which I am covered to drive others cars 3rd party which is fully paid up in full until July 2015 - fine.
When sending the NIP addressed to me back it came with a separate A4 notice stating that I or the RK may be required to provide proof of insurance on the day of offence. With this in mind and in preparation for this I called my insurance company to get a copy of my documents as eSure don't send them via e-mail. This is where things went down hill. They wouldn't send me anything, and here is why.
Now before I say this, stupidity and naivety is no defense and I am not looking for a way around this, I am simply looking for and understanding as to what is likely to happen.
Having sold my car in October I duly told my insurance company that I had done so and at the same time the new RK told his that he had bought the car before he drove off. My options were to cancel my policy or take my old car off and keep the policy until I buy a new car and they will refund me / I pay the difference depending on the car. It actually turns out that my insurance is in a dormant state - suspended, until I buy a new car which I am yet to do. Nothing was explained to me about it being suspended and effectively a non-usable insurance policy.
Now again stupidity, naivety and assuming isn't a defense so what is likely to happen?
Do they check insurance on the driver?
Do they ask for documentation?
About a month ago I was caught speeding in a friends car - bang to right's it was me. He got the NIP called me and without hesitation told him my details to send back; which he did. I then in turn received the NIP, now addressed to me through the post which I duly returned with all the correct details and my signature.
However;
I borrowed the car using my own insurance which I am covered to drive others cars 3rd party which is fully paid up in full until July 2015 - fine.
When sending the NIP addressed to me back it came with a separate A4 notice stating that I or the RK may be required to provide proof of insurance on the day of offence. With this in mind and in preparation for this I called my insurance company to get a copy of my documents as eSure don't send them via e-mail. This is where things went down hill. They wouldn't send me anything, and here is why.
Now before I say this, stupidity and naivety is no defense and I am not looking for a way around this, I am simply looking for and understanding as to what is likely to happen.
Having sold my car in October I duly told my insurance company that I had done so and at the same time the new RK told his that he had bought the car before he drove off. My options were to cancel my policy or take my old car off and keep the policy until I buy a new car and they will refund me / I pay the difference depending on the car. It actually turns out that my insurance is in a dormant state - suspended, until I buy a new car which I am yet to do. Nothing was explained to me about it being suspended and effectively a non-usable insurance policy.
Now again stupidity, naivety and assuming isn't a defense so what is likely to happen?
Do they check insurance on the driver?
Do they ask for documentation?
Joe5y said:
Do they check insurance on the driver?
Do they ask for documentation?
They might. Whether they will is in the lap of the Gods. Do they ask for documentation?
I would suggest that if the matter was a straightforward one for them - i.e. no one is contesting the offence or making a song and dance about calibration certificates, evidence, ACPO guidelines and the like - that it would proceed without any additional enquiries being made. After all, they will have their conviction, someone will be punished, and that's that.
Obviously if they do start asking for this stuff there's not a lot you'll be able to do about it anyway, so don't see why it's worth worrying about that bridge until you have to cross it.
Durzel said:
Joe5y said:
Do they check insurance on the driver?
Do they ask for documentation?
They might. Whether they will is in the lap of the Gods. Do they ask for documentation?
I would suggest that if the matter was a straightforward one for them - i.e. no one is contesting the offence or making a song and dance about calibration certificates, evidence, ACPO guidelines and the like - that it would proceed without any additional enquiries being made. After all, they will have their conviction, someone will be punished, and that's that.
Durzel said:
Obviously if they do start asking for this stuff there's not a lot you'll be able to do about it anyway, so don't see why it's worth worrying about that bridge until you have to cross it.
Sort of the stance I am taking - the Wife is another story however! Any idea on the guidelines of such an offence?Joe5y said:
Sort of the stance I am taking - the Wife is another story however! Any idea on the guidelines of such an offence?
No insurance is an absolute offence (with a few minor nuances). 6 points, IN10. It will come down to your insurer saying if they would have accepted the risk for x driving at y time for z purpose.
Cross that bridge when you come to it.
Vaud said:
No insurance is an absolute offence (with a few minor nuances). 6 points, IN10.
It will come down to your insurer saying if they would have accepted the risk for x driving at y time for z purpose.
Cross that bridge when you come to it.
Sorry not a chance of that. They may have indemnified any Third Party had he crashed into them, it that is a world away from actually being insured. The OP was not insured. More evidence of why being clever amd trying to pull a fast one on an insurer is unlikely to work. It will come down to your insurer saying if they would have accepted the risk for x driving at y time for z purpose.
Cross that bridge when you come to it.
LoonR1 said:
They may have indemnified any Third Party had he crashed into them, it that is a world away from actually being insured. The OP was not insured. More evidence of why being clever amd trying to pull a fast one on an insurer is unlikely to work.
Really? Or a high cancellation fee with little time left on the policy, OP thinks he's buying a new car soon so why cancel? We don't all know every nuance of the insurance game. He'd paid the premium, what was he getting in return?speedking31 said:
eally? Or a high cancellation fee with little time left on the policy, OP thinks he's buying a new car soon so why cancel? We don't all know every nuance of the insurance game. He'd paid the premium, what was he getting in return?
A better question. What was he insuring? Why lay a premium to I sure something you no longer own. The terms are clear if you want to read them, of course most don't. I bet his cancellation fee isn't that high as they tend not to be nowadays unless you're with a broker on a niche product. He bought a policy in July 2014 and paid in full. He then sold his car in Oct 2014 so 3-4 months of cover. You think he's going to get a cancellation charge equivalent to 8-9 months premiums? I doubt it. Maybe you think he's avoiding paying any cancellation fee no matter what size? Well I'd suggest that the premiums he's wasted since Oct (3-4 months) is a pretty hefty amount.
What's happened is the OP has decided to play clever and drive probably a much higher value car for a while and has been caught out.
Joe5y said:
First speeding ticket in 10+ years of driving - doh!
About a month ago I was caught speeding in a friends car - bang to right's it was me. He got the NIP called me and without hesitation told him my details to send back; which he did. I then in turn received the NIP, now addressed to me through the post which I duly returned with all the correct details and my signature.
However;
I borrowed the car using my own insurance which I am covered to drive others cars 3rd party which is fully paid up in full until July 2015 - fine.
When sending the NIP addressed to me back it came with a separate A4 notice stating that I or the RK may be required to provide proof of insurance on the day of offence. With this in mind and in preparation for this I called my insurance company to get a copy of my documents as eSure don't send them via e-mail. This is where things went down hill. They wouldn't send me anything, and here is why.
Now before I say this, stupidity and naivety is no defense and I am not looking for a way around this, I am simply looking for and understanding as to what is likely to happen.
Having sold my car in October I duly told my insurance company that I had done so and at the same time the new RK told his that he had bought the car before he drove off. My options were to cancel my policy or take my old car off and keep the policy until I buy a new car and they will refund me / I pay the difference depending on the car. It actually turns out that my insurance is in a dormant state - suspended, until I buy a new car which I am yet to do. Nothing was explained to me about it being suspended and effectively a non-usable insurance policy.
Now again stupidity, naivety and assuming isn't a defense so what is likely to happen?
Do they check insurance on the driver?
Do they ask for documentation?
About a month ago I was caught speeding in a friends car - bang to right's it was me. He got the NIP called me and without hesitation told him my details to send back; which he did. I then in turn received the NIP, now addressed to me through the post which I duly returned with all the correct details and my signature.
However;
I borrowed the car using my own insurance which I am covered to drive others cars 3rd party which is fully paid up in full until July 2015 - fine.
When sending the NIP addressed to me back it came with a separate A4 notice stating that I or the RK may be required to provide proof of insurance on the day of offence. With this in mind and in preparation for this I called my insurance company to get a copy of my documents as eSure don't send them via e-mail. This is where things went down hill. They wouldn't send me anything, and here is why.
Now before I say this, stupidity and naivety is no defense and I am not looking for a way around this, I am simply looking for and understanding as to what is likely to happen.
Having sold my car in October I duly told my insurance company that I had done so and at the same time the new RK told his that he had bought the car before he drove off. My options were to cancel my policy or take my old car off and keep the policy until I buy a new car and they will refund me / I pay the difference depending on the car. It actually turns out that my insurance is in a dormant state - suspended, until I buy a new car which I am yet to do. Nothing was explained to me about it being suspended and effectively a non-usable insurance policy.
Now again stupidity, naivety and assuming isn't a defense so what is likely to happen?
Do they check insurance on the driver?
Do they ask for documentation?
LoonR1 said:
Sorry not a chance of that. They may have indemnified any Third Party had he crashed into them, it that is a world away from actually being insured. The OP was not insured. More evidence of why being clever amd trying to pull a fast one on an insurer is unlikely to work.
Loon, do you mind if I send you a private email? I could do with your advice on an insurance claim.LoonR1 said:
What's happened is the OP has decided to play clever and drive probably a much higher value car for a while and has been caught out.
No cleverness about it. The car I had and sold was worth 3, maybe even 4 times as much as the car I borrowed from a friend. Reason for borrowing, not that it is relevant, was that I was doing a 400 mile round trip and I didn't want to do it in a van.
LoonR1 said:
speedking31 said:
eally? Or a high cancellation fee with little time left on the policy, OP thinks he's buying a new car soon so why cancel? We don't all know every nuance of the insurance game. He'd paid the premium, what was he getting in return?
A better question. What was he insuring? Why lay a premium to I sure something you no longer own. The terms are clear if you want to read them, of course most don't. I bet his cancellation fee isn't that high as they tend not to be nowadays unless you're with a broker on a niche product. He bought a policy in July 2014 and paid in full. He then sold his car in Oct 2014 so 3-4 months of cover. You think he's going to get a cancellation charge equivalent to 8-9 months premiums? I doubt it. Maybe you think he's avoiding paying any cancellation fee no matter what size? Well I'd suggest that the premiums he's wasted since Oct (3-4 months) is a pretty hefty amount.
What's happened is the OP has decided to play clever and drive probably a much higher value car for a while and has been caught out.
Joe5y said:
ZOLLAR said:
OP was the insurer one of the Admiral group?
I think that I mentioned in the original post that it was eSure - not sure if they are a part of the Admiral group however? Howcome?They would have made it very clear that it was suspended with additional cover such as DOC not in force.
With regards to your problem I suggest trying to keep your head down police wise, accept the fine and points with no fuss.
When I got my SP30 they didn't require proof of insurance and I was caught at 42 mph so unless you give them cause to investigate you further you may well be ok, just don't go using DOC so flippantly safer to get proper cover than using DOC if you're driving the distance you were.
ZOLLAR said:
Joe5y said:
ZOLLAR said:
OP was the insurer one of the Admiral group?
I think that I mentioned in the original post that it was eSure - not sure if they are a part of the Admiral group however? Howcome?They would have made it very clear that it was suspended with additional cover such as DOC not in force.
With regards to your problem I suggest trying to keep your head down police wise, accept the fine and points with no fuss.
When I got my SP30 they didn't require proof of insurance and I was caught at 42 mph so unless you give them cause to investigate you further you may well be ok, just don't go using DOC so flippantly safer to get proper cover than using DOC if you're driving the distance you were.
Whether suspension was mentioned or not I am pretty certain I wasn't made aware that I wouldn't be covered at all anymore. However the point of this post wasn't to find a way out or contest my innocence (or not) I merely wanted to find out what I was likely to receive as punishment. And also what the process is when it comes to what is investigated when speeding fines occur as I am new to this
As for DOC, as soon as I found out I was uninsured I made sure that I got adequate cover even though I use the car so infrequently if at all.
Joe5y said:
When I called to address my options I had the option of either cancel outright or "remove the sold vehicle and keep the policy until I buy a new car and you will receive a refund for the time elapsed. But there will be an amendment fee".
Whether suspension was mentioned or not I am pretty certain I wasn't made aware that I wouldn't be covered at all anymore. However the point of this post wasn't to find a way out or contest my innocence (or not) I merely wanted to find out what I was likely to receive as punishment. And also what the process is when it comes to what is investigated when speeding fines occur as I am new to this
As for DOC, as soon as I found out I was uninsured I made sure that I got adequate cover even though I use the car so infrequently if at all.
Here's the esure policy booklet. You get one of those when you buy a policy with themWhether suspension was mentioned or not I am pretty certain I wasn't made aware that I wouldn't be covered at all anymore. However the point of this post wasn't to find a way out or contest my innocence (or not) I merely wanted to find out what I was likely to receive as punishment. And also what the process is when it comes to what is investigated when speeding fines occur as I am new to this
As for DOC, as soon as I found out I was uninsured I made sure that I got adequate cover even though I use the car so infrequently if at all.
http://www.esure.com/wcm/groups/public/documents/w...
Page 21 section 9 it's very clear what suspending your policy means. Either full suspension or suspend everything bar fire amd theft cover. Both of those mean DOC is clearly not an option anymore.
Joe5y said:
I did in fact buy another car which after finding out how many issues it had - an S2k, I punted it on. I have always been meaning to buy another car but circumstance, for a variety of reasons haven't allowed and although still on the hunt I am still no closer to getting a car I require which at the moment, for the short journeys that I do doesn't warrant a car, like I had before.
Wow. A car that you've not mentioned before miraculously appears. Now what was the change to your premium? A refund or an increase when you out this on risk? After all it's huhgly unlikely that the original premium from July 2014 was exactly the same as for the S2000. Why didn't you mention this? After all you told us about the car you sold in October but didn't bother telling us about the car you subsequently bought. Special brownie points for picking that car though, I'm sure PH will side with you now.
LoonR1 said:
Joe5y said:
When I called to address my options I had the option of either cancel outright or "remove the sold vehicle and keep the policy until I buy a new car and you will receive a refund for the time elapsed. But there will be an amendment fee".
Whether suspension was mentioned or not I am pretty certain I wasn't made aware that I wouldn't be covered at all anymore. However the point of this post wasn't to find a way out or contest my innocence (or not) I merely wanted to find out what I was likely to receive as punishment. And also what the process is when it comes to what is investigated when speeding fines occur as I am new to this
As for DOC, as soon as I found out I was uninsured I made sure that I got adequate cover even though I use the car so infrequently if at all.
Here's the esure policy booklet. You get one of those when you buy a policy with themWhether suspension was mentioned or not I am pretty certain I wasn't made aware that I wouldn't be covered at all anymore. However the point of this post wasn't to find a way out or contest my innocence (or not) I merely wanted to find out what I was likely to receive as punishment. And also what the process is when it comes to what is investigated when speeding fines occur as I am new to this
As for DOC, as soon as I found out I was uninsured I made sure that I got adequate cover even though I use the car so infrequently if at all.
http://www.esure.com/wcm/groups/public/documents/w...
Page 21 section 9 it's very clear what suspending your policy means. Either full suspension or suspend everything bar fire amd theft cover. Both of those mean DOC is clearly not an option anymore.
As stated I am not trying to deny that I was in the wrong however naive, stupid or assumptive I was - merely looking for an understanding of whats to come.
You seem to be upset with my honest, yet ridiculously stupid mistake and the fact I am looking for some advice?
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