Water softeners - talk to me
Discussion
So, as I continue to bring my flat up to scratch, I'm looking at trying to change the kitchen and boiler this year, but think a water softener should be fitted at the same time (water main is under the kitchen sink). I live in Brighton and the water is mega hard, which does my head in as everything it touches gets covered in limescale immediately!
So, I don't know a lot about water softeners, but it seems that non-electric, salt-based systems are the ones to go for?
Are there any best brands to look out for? Rough costs?
I've seen some that use block salt, but apparently these are more expensive to run than those that run on sacks of loose salt, can I not just pour bagged salt into the block salt models?
So, any pitfalls I should be aware of, or recommendations from people who have them?
So, I don't know a lot about water softeners, but it seems that non-electric, salt-based systems are the ones to go for?
Are there any best brands to look out for? Rough costs?
I've seen some that use block salt, but apparently these are more expensive to run than those that run on sacks of loose salt, can I not just pour bagged salt into the block salt models?
So, any pitfalls I should be aware of, or recommendations from people who have them?
Kinetico C20/20 here and it's the best thing I ever bought. Non electric, uses salt blocks and about a quid a week on salt for a family of 4. It's got a twin head system so it's soft water 100% of the time as there's no down time when it does a regeneration. It was just over a grand fitted but worth every penny.
There is a monster thread on this on www.moneysavingexpert.com
Pretty much every possible thing you could want to know is on there. ( Thread here http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php... )
After a lot of research I ended up with the more expensive options. Twintec.
1/ It's a big house. The twin chambers mean you always have soft water.
2/ Salt block is a wee bit more expensive - but Mrs Troubleatmill can easily lift each block to refill - rather than a hoofing bag of salt.
3/ Get a support brace under the kitchen cabinet
4/ Get a separate water filter in. The very young un's and the elderly shouldn't be drinking softened water
Oh - and no more cleaning limescale.
Best decision ever to put one in.
Pretty much every possible thing you could want to know is on there. ( Thread here http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php... )
After a lot of research I ended up with the more expensive options. Twintec.
1/ It's a big house. The twin chambers mean you always have soft water.
2/ Salt block is a wee bit more expensive - but Mrs Troubleatmill can easily lift each block to refill - rather than a hoofing bag of salt.
3/ Get a support brace under the kitchen cabinet
4/ Get a separate water filter in. The very young un's and the elderly shouldn't be drinking softened water
Oh - and no more cleaning limescale.
Best decision ever to put one in.
Edited by Troubleatmill on Thursday 29th January 16:04
Magic919 said:
I presume you filter the incoming mains, rather than the softened water and drink that.
Yes. If you look above the stopcock. you will see a small vertical pipe ( this is going to the outside tap).There is a spur off there for a very thin white pipe - this goes to the white cartridge - and the cartridge goes to a special drinking tap.
The other thin white pipe - is coming from the water softener is to the waste - which is what is used when the unit recycles itself.
Edit. I drink both.
Tea / coffee etc- I use softened water.
Drinking water - I use the filter.
CheesyFootballs said:
I presume this would protect your heating boiler from scale?
We'll be having a new boiler this year and live in a hard water area, so anything to help the longevity would be good.
Just one reason we had ours to protect the Worcester combi recently fitted. Heat exchangers are prone to scale damage. Strangely enough they don't recommend artificially soft water to fill the heating system with.We'll be having a new boiler this year and live in a hard water area, so anything to help the longevity would be good.
BFG TERRANO said:
CheesyFootballs said:
I presume this would protect your heating boiler from scale?
We'll be having a new boiler this year and live in a hard water area, so anything to help the longevity would be good.
Just one reason we had ours to protect the Worcester combi recently fitted. Heat exchangers are prone to scale damage. Strangely enough they don't recommend artificially soft water to fill the heating system with.We'll be having a new boiler this year and live in a hard water area, so anything to help the longevity would be good.
Our Worcester oil fired one has been chugging along for more than 20 years without too many issues.
But, no doubt adding a softener would help it run more efficiently.
Re Boilers and heat exchangers.
Jury is out on that one.
Current thinking is still to use hard water - but use fernox etc etc
Do your own research on this BTW. It is a minefield. ( although I think the consensus is that the aluminium heat exchanger will expire quicker under soft water.
I am still unsure.
If you look at my photo above:
I have the option to bypass the softener - so if I need to top up central heating - I can switch the valves - run the bathroom taps for 2 mins - ( to get rid of the soft water in the pipework ) - and then top up the system.
Jury is out on that one.
Current thinking is still to use hard water - but use fernox etc etc
Do your own research on this BTW. It is a minefield. ( although I think the consensus is that the aluminium heat exchanger will expire quicker under soft water.
I am still unsure.
If you look at my photo above:
I have the option to bypass the softener - so if I need to top up central heating - I can switch the valves - run the bathroom taps for 2 mins - ( to get rid of the soft water in the pipework ) - and then top up the system.
Thanks for the input guys, particuarly the picture of the install.
Regarding the Tapworks electric softener, I gather that a Kinetico is more expensive, but in what ways is it better than the electric Tapworks?
The reason I'm keen to nail the decision quickly is because there is currently a fully refurbished Kinetico 2020 on eBay for £450 with new resin etc. If it's the best then I think that may be worth a punt over a new one at £900, but obviously if a Tapworks is only £450 brand new and not demonstrably worse then I may prefer to buy new!
Regarding the Tapworks electric softener, I gather that a Kinetico is more expensive, but in what ways is it better than the electric Tapworks?
The reason I'm keen to nail the decision quickly is because there is currently a fully refurbished Kinetico 2020 on eBay for £450 with new resin etc. If it's the best then I think that may be worth a punt over a new one at £900, but obviously if a Tapworks is only £450 brand new and not demonstrably worse then I may prefer to buy new!
Edited by Blue Oval84 on Friday 30th January 13:13
I would take the Kinetico. It is as near as dammit the same as the Harvey and Twintec system. ( I have the Twintec )
There is very little to go wrong on them. ( Electric softeners are cheaper to make - and more can go wrong )
And Kinetico, Harvey & Twintec always sell on Ebay.
Get the installation kit - and get a plumber who knows what they are doing.
If it helps - I can give you close ups of my install.
There is very little to go wrong on them. ( Electric softeners are cheaper to make - and more can go wrong )
And Kinetico, Harvey & Twintec always sell on Ebay.
Get the installation kit - and get a plumber who knows what they are doing.
If it helps - I can give you close ups of my install.
Edited by Troubleatmill on Friday 30th January 18:16
Blue Oval84 said:
Great, will go for the Kinetico then seeing as it's available now on eBay. I know a good plumber so I'm sure he'll be able to plumb it in with relative ease
If he thinks he'll need pictures I'll definitely give you a shout!
Thanks all!
Wise move you won't be disappointed. Get some testing tablets to drop in the water and take a few tests after just to be sure.If he thinks he'll need pictures I'll definitely give you a shout!
Thanks all!
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