Large unexpected bank transfer - mistake or scam?
Discussion
We received a payment of €25000 into one of our business accounts about 3 weeks ago, but it was only yesterday that we noticed/realised that it wasn't for us.
The payment came by bank transfer and the bank has assured me that it is cleared funds. The only details I can see are the name and account number.
The bank won't give me any more information - citing data protection - and unfortunately the name is pretty much the Belgian equivalent of "Smith", so I'm not going to have a lot of luck tracking them down.
Given that the funds have now cleared into the account the only options for me are either to transfer it back (with a message that it must have been a mistake) or to wait until someone contacts me. That transfer will then be viewed as a voluntary bank transfer from us to them, not a "bounce" due to a mistake, if that makes sense.
If they do contact me, I will only transfer the funds back to the original account, nowhere else.
I was just wondering whether anyone on here had any suggestions/observations/experience that this could be a scam in any way (can't see how myself), or whether it is just an innocent mistake.
I find it strange that someone could not notice their mistake (although that's maybe a bit hypocritical because we've only just noticed!).
For absolute clarity, I'm not looking for a way to keep the money, just trying to avoid a situation where we transfer it back, and then the original transfer gets called back, so we end up seriously out of pocket!
The payment came by bank transfer and the bank has assured me that it is cleared funds. The only details I can see are the name and account number.
The bank won't give me any more information - citing data protection - and unfortunately the name is pretty much the Belgian equivalent of "Smith", so I'm not going to have a lot of luck tracking them down.
Given that the funds have now cleared into the account the only options for me are either to transfer it back (with a message that it must have been a mistake) or to wait until someone contacts me. That transfer will then be viewed as a voluntary bank transfer from us to them, not a "bounce" due to a mistake, if that makes sense.
If they do contact me, I will only transfer the funds back to the original account, nowhere else.
I was just wondering whether anyone on here had any suggestions/observations/experience that this could be a scam in any way (can't see how myself), or whether it is just an innocent mistake.
I find it strange that someone could not notice their mistake (although that's maybe a bit hypocritical because we've only just noticed!).
For absolute clarity, I'm not looking for a way to keep the money, just trying to avoid a situation where we transfer it back, and then the original transfer gets called back, so we end up seriously out of pocket!
Foliage said:
Id ignore it, tell the bank that you weren't expecting the money and let them deal with it, if you do anything with the money then it will be your fault, if the bank move the money back then its on them and you wont lose your money.
Thanks. I've been to the bank this morning and they say they can't do anything, so I then have to "send" them money rather than "refuse" it, if that makes sense. We had around £60k transferred into our account. Was a scam. Payment was made via a stolen cheque. Showed as cleared and looked from our end like a bank transfer. We contacted the bank, ignored the payment and after a few weeks the fraud was discovered and the funds taken back out of our account.
foxsasha said:
We had around £60k transferred into our account. Was a scam. Payment was made via a stolen cheque. Showed as cleared and looked from our end like a bank transfer. We contacted the bank, ignored the payment and after a few weeks the fraud was discovered and the funds taken back out of our account.
s
t! I guess I'll just wait and see what happens.Well saying leave it there & do nothing is all very well but it's going to have to appear in the company accounts at some point & the OP's company might end up paying tax on it. After all it could look like €25k more profit unless his accountants find a special category to squirrel it away into.
Mr Pointy said:
Well saying leave it there & do nothing is all very well but it's going to have to appear in the company accounts at some point & the OP's company might end up paying tax on it. After all it could look like €25k more profit unless his accountants find a special category to squirrel it away into.
Fortunately we have until the end of 2015 before we need to worry about that - in Belgium our tax year is the calendar year. 
Mr Pointy said:
Well saying leave it there & do nothing is all very well but it's going to have to appear in the company accounts at some point & the OP's company might end up paying tax on it. After all it could look like €25k more profit unless his accountants find a special category to squirrel it away into.
Not sure what I have read here, but saying it was sent to the OP's business in error and later refunded does not mean OP will have to pay tax on it... In what sense of the word is this classed as profit when it was given back? This is assuming it is given back.foxsasha said:
We had around £60k transferred into our account. Was a scam. Payment was made via a stolen cheque. Showed as cleared and looked from our end like a bank transfer. We contacted the bank, ignored the payment and after a few weeks the fraud was discovered and the funds taken back out of our account.
Was this a while ago? I though these days, once a cheque had been "given value" - usually after a few days - then the funds are regarded as yours.You could then have to be asked (or ordered by a court) to repay the money if the transaction turned out to be fraudulent - the bank shouldn't just take it. The issuing bank should stand any loss.
Sheepshanks said:
foxsasha said:
We had around £60k transferred into our account. Was a scam. Payment was made via a stolen cheque. Showed as cleared and looked from our end like a bank transfer. We contacted the bank, ignored the payment and after a few weeks the fraud was discovered and the funds taken back out of our account.
Was this a while ago? I though these days, once a cheque had been "given value" - usually after a few days - then the funds are regarded as yours.You could then have to be asked (or ordered by a court) to repay the money if the transaction turned out to be fraudulent - the bank shouldn't just take it. The issuing bank should stand any loss.
If its a bill payment, the receiver is under no obligation to pay it back if they don't want to.
Du1point8 said:
6 months clawback for a cheque...
That used to be the case but it's more like 6 days now. Don't know if that applies universally though.ETA: Hmmm...Quick Google hit on Barclays and it says:
"However, you can be certain that an unpaid cheque won’t be debited from your account without your permission if 6 working days have passed since it was deposited, unless there’s a suspicion that fraud has been committed."
...so given suspicion of fraud is pretty wide ranging that doesn't help at all.
Mr Pointy said:
Well saying leave it there & do nothing is all very well but it's going to have to appear in the company accounts at some point & the OP's company might end up paying tax on it. After all it could look like €25k more profit unless his accountants find a special category to squirrel it away into.
It would purely be an unreconciled item in the accounts as its not the op's he can't include it in his accounts.Indeed northandy, would just be a misc. creditor.
I'm surprised the bank won't just reverse the transaction. We've had real problems getting funds credited to our account when the bank has told us they're "in the system", we have the SWIFT message and everything points the right way so I don't see why you shouldn't be able to get rid of something that definitely isn't yours!
I'm surprised the bank won't just reverse the transaction. We've had real problems getting funds credited to our account when the bank has told us they're "in the system", we have the SWIFT message and everything points the right way so I don't see why you shouldn't be able to get rid of something that definitely isn't yours!
I had a similar experience but on a personal account, £5k transferred,I asked the bank by fax who the payment had come from, they could only tell me sort and account details.
8 weeks later the bank took the money out of my account without notice making me just overdrawn. bank called me in, I offered to repay interest free over 6 weeks. Their response was 7 days or else. At the time I was working for a lawfirm on a high profile SFO case so had access to mega legal advice.
Turns out "Howlett v Avon County Council" is the test.
1) Did I beleive the money was mine...yes I was owed a similar amount by two people and didn't know which had paid me
2) Did I make enquiries of the bank...yes
3) Did I use the money in one lump on an unusual purchase, if I had spent it in dribs and drabs on day to day stuff I would have to pay it back...used the money as a deposit on a 535i
So went to Court I won, got costs against the bank........bank closed my account
8 weeks later the bank took the money out of my account without notice making me just overdrawn. bank called me in, I offered to repay interest free over 6 weeks. Their response was 7 days or else. At the time I was working for a lawfirm on a high profile SFO case so had access to mega legal advice.
Turns out "Howlett v Avon County Council" is the test.
1) Did I beleive the money was mine...yes I was owed a similar amount by two people and didn't know which had paid me
2) Did I make enquiries of the bank...yes
3) Did I use the money in one lump on an unusual purchase, if I had spent it in dribs and drabs on day to day stuff I would have to pay it back...used the money as a deposit on a 535i
So went to Court I won, got costs against the bank........bank closed my account
Rangeroverover said:
I had a similar experience but on a personal account, £5k transferred,I asked the bank by fax who the payment had come from, they could only tell me sort and account details.
8 weeks later the bank took the money out of my account without notice making me just overdrawn. bank called me in, I offered to repay interest free over 6 weeks. Their response was 7 days or else. At the time I was working for a lawfirm on a high profile SFO case so had access to mega legal advice.
Turns out "Howlett v Avon County Council" is the test.
1) Did I beleive the money was mine...yes I was owed a similar amount by two people and didn't know which had paid me
2) Did I make enquiries of the bank...yes
3) Did I use the money in one lump on an unusual purchase, if I had spent it in dribs and drabs on day to day stuff I would have to pay it back...used the money as a deposit on a 535i
So went to Court I won, got costs against the bank........bank closed my account
So even though you new the money was not yours, you went to court and made up a story and persuaded them to let you keep it? Or, am I reading this wrongly? 8 weeks later the bank took the money out of my account without notice making me just overdrawn. bank called me in, I offered to repay interest free over 6 weeks. Their response was 7 days or else. At the time I was working for a lawfirm on a high profile SFO case so had access to mega legal advice.
Turns out "Howlett v Avon County Council" is the test.
1) Did I beleive the money was mine...yes I was owed a similar amount by two people and didn't know which had paid me
2) Did I make enquiries of the bank...yes
3) Did I use the money in one lump on an unusual purchase, if I had spent it in dribs and drabs on day to day stuff I would have to pay it back...used the money as a deposit on a 535i
So went to Court I won, got costs against the bank........bank closed my account
just be careful, report it to the police too, as someone else has mentioned no doubt once the bank click on its fraudulent they will snap that money away quicker than you could say wacky races.
just because the bank says its "cleared" doesn't mean st as far as I am concerned.
Even if you read the terms and conditons of the bank I am sure it says somewhere that even though it usually take few days for the funds to clear, its something like 21 days before its "CLEARED".
just because the bank says its "cleared" doesn't mean s
t as far as I am concerned. Even if you read the terms and conditons of the bank I am sure it says somewhere that even though it usually take few days for the funds to clear, its something like 21 days before its "CLEARED".
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