'Fake' apprenticeship
Discussion
Apologies in advance for the long story:
I've recently started a new job at an engineering company. When applying I stated I have completed an apprenticeship in welding and fabrication. Between 2002 and 2005 I attended college on day release and studied the subjects, and I have relevant qualifications from them.
My new employer has refused to put me on the same rate as the other new starters, stating that I have no record of my apprenticeship. They are correct, aside from my college certs I have nothing. Nobody from the college came in to assess us and there was never any kind of paperwork involved, we were just told by our employer at the time that we were apprentices. Obviously our paltry hourly rate reflected that.
Now it seems that it's possible our employer simply used us for cheap labour and this apprenticeship was not actually one. Why send us to college though?
I can't find any info on what it is I need to obtain for my apprenticeship to have been valid. I don't know what it is I need that I haven't got. Is anyone experienced in this area and can give me pointers? I can list the certificates I have if need be. This is getting on for fifteen years after I left school and I'm absolutely gutted that my years at college may have been for nothing - I'm on unskilled wages now despite having worked in fabrication since I left school (I'm 29 now) and the company have told me that I will never progress without the right papers.
I've recently started a new job at an engineering company. When applying I stated I have completed an apprenticeship in welding and fabrication. Between 2002 and 2005 I attended college on day release and studied the subjects, and I have relevant qualifications from them.
My new employer has refused to put me on the same rate as the other new starters, stating that I have no record of my apprenticeship. They are correct, aside from my college certs I have nothing. Nobody from the college came in to assess us and there was never any kind of paperwork involved, we were just told by our employer at the time that we were apprentices. Obviously our paltry hourly rate reflected that.
Now it seems that it's possible our employer simply used us for cheap labour and this apprenticeship was not actually one. Why send us to college though?
I can't find any info on what it is I need to obtain for my apprenticeship to have been valid. I don't know what it is I need that I haven't got. Is anyone experienced in this area and can give me pointers? I can list the certificates I have if need be. This is getting on for fifteen years after I left school and I'm absolutely gutted that my years at college may have been for nothing - I'm on unskilled wages now despite having worked in fabrication since I left school (I'm 29 now) and the company have told me that I will never progress without the right papers.
What qualifications did you gain?
ie city and guilds technician , ONC etc
I remember when I served my apprenticeship , my parents and myself and the company signed a document entitled
'article of apprenticeship' setting out all aspects of the 4 years ahead of us , don't know whether this still is a must though.
How about contacting the co. who trained you
ie city and guilds technician , ONC etc
I remember when I served my apprenticeship , my parents and myself and the company signed a document entitled
'article of apprenticeship' setting out all aspects of the 4 years ahead of us , don't know whether this still is a must though.
How about contacting the co. who trained you
Edited by dingg on Friday 13th February 16:48
Contact the National Apprenticeship Service, they should be able to look into it for you.
http://www.apprenticeships.gov.uk/
http://www.apprenticeships.gov.uk/
It sounds like you just achieved the tech certs at the college, but not the full framework of the apprenticeship - you wouldn't have been able to get that without assessor observations/reviews in the workplace. The college would be able to confirm what you were enrolled on and what you actually achieved if you contact them.
Im a similar age to yourself and also fabricator/welder. I did my apprenticeship with a large company (in a dockyard), aswell as the usual city and guilds (2290 i think?), nvq 2 and 3 and a load of other smaller courses such as health and safety, first aid, key skills etc we all got a certificate of apprenticeship (either advanced or foundation depending which level of nvq you did).I didnt get that cert until about 6 months after i finished my apprenticeship as i had left the company to join the navy but have since gone back to my trade in the same place.
As far as having the right qualifications goes, i spent 5 years conracting before going full time staff again last summer, some of the contractors i have worked with couldnt supply the certs needed but still managed to secure good jobs, pays good as a contractor, one guy 'couldnt remember' the place he served his time!
My brother spent a few years working in the local colleges workshops as a storeman/class helper type job, while there learnt to weld and do some fab, managed to get a couple welding certs out of it and now works for a fabrication firm up in essex,all without a proper apprenticeship.
As far as having the right qualifications goes, i spent 5 years conracting before going full time staff again last summer, some of the contractors i have worked with couldnt supply the certs needed but still managed to secure good jobs, pays good as a contractor, one guy 'couldnt remember' the place he served his time!
My brother spent a few years working in the local colleges workshops as a storeman/class helper type job, while there learnt to weld and do some fab, managed to get a couple welding certs out of it and now works for a fabrication firm up in essex,all without a proper apprenticeship.
Thanks for the help. I found the course I did and it's the City & Guilds 2800 Certificate in Engineering, even managed to get a hold of a copy of the course handbook!
I've never had any problems with employers asking for certs until now, and I like this job so want to get paid paid the same as the other staff. I don't think it's unfair to want the same wages for doing exactly the same job. My boss is basically saying that what I've got amounts to nothing more than an hour a week on an evening course, rather than the years I spent on day release.
I've never had any problems with employers asking for certs until now, and I like this job so want to get paid paid the same as the other staff. I don't think it's unfair to want the same wages for doing exactly the same job. My boss is basically saying that what I've got amounts to nothing more than an hour a week on an evening course, rather than the years I spent on day release.
L2L said:
It sounds like you just achieved the tech certs at the college, but not the full framework of the apprenticeship - you wouldn't have been able to get that without assessor observations/reviews in the workplace. The college would be able to confirm what you were enrolled on and what you actually achieved if you contact them.
The college have said they only keep records for seven years so have nothing on me. Is there anything I can do to get the other things at this stage? I don't want to have wasted my time at college.Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff