Not another E36! A Thread about a Daily Smoker - 323i
Discussion
Indeed, it is time that I showed my face with a propestive BMW bargain of the moment, the E36s, the unloved child out of all of the 3 Series. What started out with me buying a car as purely transport has ended up with me appreciating it, even it is a lowly 'detuned 2.5'.
As to how I came to acquire this? In a short space of time I sold off nearly all of my cars. This included a:
1989 Peugeot 205 GTi:
A car I thought I would hold onto ; A 944 Turbo with a few desirable mods:
However, with things going a little South in terms of work and an unreliable car left (this is coming...) I decided to part ways. It was good whilst it lasted for sure:
Finally I was left with the Stag. Despite the engine running fine the gearbox was giving me quite a bit of grief. It resulted in me needing to plan my journeys long in advance and be prepared to throw away a minimum of £5-10 worth of fuel before it would even move under its own steam. Whilst I did resort to riding around on my racing pushbike something had to be done.
With a new line of work things improved. I decided at that point in time that my daily should come in the form of this:
Whilst it was a superb daily it probably was not the best choice with how Fords can rust! Clearly I needed a winter smoker.
A friend of mine for a number of reasons was getting rid of his car. A BMW 323i Coupe. On the basis that I knew the history of the car it seemed like an appealing buy. After some cash parted hands I was now the new owner of the Bavarian machine:
Did it come with issues? Of course it did! The car was cheap and it was almost 20 years old after all! The issues included:
-The front wing having the paint burned through it as a result of the an overzealous polisher and a poor paintjob on it
-Central locking not working (still to fix)
-The engine running cool most of the time
-A small hole in the driver's seat bolster.
-Non working heated rear window
-Rattly parcel shelf
-Car driving with a mind of its own
Hang on, I've bought a nail right?
Not quite. The real beauty of the car lay skin deep, with them including:
-Powerflex lower arm lollypqop bushes and Black Series RTAB bushes.
-New Lemforder arms up front from an E30
-Koni suspension all round lowered at around 40mm with less than 1,000 miles on them
-New genuine BMW 850i top mounts (my friend ordered the earlier 6 pot dampers as opposed to the later ones).
-New OE clutch kit fitted.
-Special order leather interior binned in favour of half leather Sport seats ; the interior was very dirty prior to him buying it.
-17" Style 68 wheels with brand new tyres
-Fully serviced bar the coolant and fuel filter
The first issue I had to cure at this time of year was the thermostat. Some may call me nuts here but I shelled out for a BMW item ; on previous cars I was rather annoyed with the poor results pattern thermostats gave, and a Wahler thermostat was only £3 cheaper than BMW's list price, which I had a discount on anyway
. Despite some issues with bleeding the system despite following the bleeding procedure to the letter (I removed the heater matrix pipe to dispel of any excess air) I ended with with an amazingly warm heater, and temperature gauge which stayed within the middle upon warming up! I also filled it up with BMW approved coolant but with not coming from the dealer . Again, some may say coolant is coolant, but after the issues I had with the Triumph Stag and other cars with cheapo coolant (the coolant turned brown within a year in both cases!) I did not wish to take any chances on a car which has a reputation for potentially overheating.
Changing this:
resulted with this:
The rattling shelf required most of the rear interior to be removed in order to simply refix the rear shelf! However, it is now far less annoying to drive! At the same time I refixed the earth for the rear heated window which saw it working once more
.
Furthermore I had to car's geometry checked. It would not really drive in a straight line and the car felt like the rear and front of it were doing different things! Being lowered (and an E36) my local guy could not track it (with his hook over the tyre gauges, the wheel arches would have been damaged badly. So I ended up shelling out a small fortune for a bloke with a Hunter alignment system (where the gauges clip onto the rim) to align the car. Sure enough, the toe on all 4 wheels was all over the shop (they were all toeing out the front of the car having a toal of 0.57' toe out and the rear having 1 22' total toe out!). with the rest of the settings being relatively consistent. With the toe changed the car finally drove as it should.
There are a few more things to add, but that is it for now.
As to how I came to acquire this? In a short space of time I sold off nearly all of my cars. This included a:
1989 Peugeot 205 GTi:
A car I thought I would hold onto ; A 944 Turbo with a few desirable mods:
However, with things going a little South in terms of work and an unreliable car left (this is coming...) I decided to part ways. It was good whilst it lasted for sure:
Finally I was left with the Stag. Despite the engine running fine the gearbox was giving me quite a bit of grief. It resulted in me needing to plan my journeys long in advance and be prepared to throw away a minimum of £5-10 worth of fuel before it would even move under its own steam. Whilst I did resort to riding around on my racing pushbike something had to be done.
With a new line of work things improved. I decided at that point in time that my daily should come in the form of this:
Whilst it was a superb daily it probably was not the best choice with how Fords can rust! Clearly I needed a winter smoker.
A friend of mine for a number of reasons was getting rid of his car. A BMW 323i Coupe. On the basis that I knew the history of the car it seemed like an appealing buy. After some cash parted hands I was now the new owner of the Bavarian machine:
Did it come with issues? Of course it did! The car was cheap and it was almost 20 years old after all! The issues included:
-The front wing having the paint burned through it as a result of the an overzealous polisher and a poor paintjob on it
-Central locking not working (still to fix)
-The engine running cool most of the time
-A small hole in the driver's seat bolster.
-Non working heated rear window
-Rattly parcel shelf
-Car driving with a mind of its own
Hang on, I've bought a nail right?
Not quite. The real beauty of the car lay skin deep, with them including:
-Powerflex lower arm lollypqop bushes and Black Series RTAB bushes.
-New Lemforder arms up front from an E30
-Koni suspension all round lowered at around 40mm with less than 1,000 miles on them
-New genuine BMW 850i top mounts (my friend ordered the earlier 6 pot dampers as opposed to the later ones).
-New OE clutch kit fitted.
-Special order leather interior binned in favour of half leather Sport seats ; the interior was very dirty prior to him buying it.
-17" Style 68 wheels with brand new tyres
-Fully serviced bar the coolant and fuel filter
The first issue I had to cure at this time of year was the thermostat. Some may call me nuts here but I shelled out for a BMW item ; on previous cars I was rather annoyed with the poor results pattern thermostats gave, and a Wahler thermostat was only £3 cheaper than BMW's list price, which I had a discount on anyway
. Despite some issues with bleeding the system despite following the bleeding procedure to the letter (I removed the heater matrix pipe to dispel of any excess air) I ended with with an amazingly warm heater, and temperature gauge which stayed within the middle upon warming up! I also filled it up with BMW approved coolant but with not coming from the dealer . Again, some may say coolant is coolant, but after the issues I had with the Triumph Stag and other cars with cheapo coolant (the coolant turned brown within a year in both cases!) I did not wish to take any chances on a car which has a reputation for potentially overheating.Changing this:
resulted with this:
The rattling shelf required most of the rear interior to be removed in order to simply refix the rear shelf! However, it is now far less annoying to drive! At the same time I refixed the earth for the rear heated window which saw it working once more
.Furthermore I had to car's geometry checked. It would not really drive in a straight line and the car felt like the rear and front of it were doing different things! Being lowered (and an E36) my local guy could not track it (with his hook over the tyre gauges, the wheel arches would have been damaged badly. So I ended up shelling out a small fortune for a bloke with a Hunter alignment system (where the gauges clip onto the rim) to align the car. Sure enough, the toe on all 4 wheels was all over the shop (they were all toeing out the front of the car having a toal of 0.57' toe out and the rear having 1 22' total toe out!). with the rest of the settings being relatively consistent. With the toe changed the car finally drove as it should.
There are a few more things to add, but that is it for now
.The airflow in this car was not superb. After seeing the hard to get to Pollen filter it was obvious.
Part of the windows not demisting well, despite driving the car for quite some time as well as poor airflow (mainly from the lower foot vent, but the rest were not much better) may have been down to this chap:
I cannot say it was the easiest pollen filter to change (it looks to be an afterthought in terms of design!), where I only had to remove the driver's side part of the dash as well as the footvent (which had been bodged back into place with some tape (the vent was not really on)). What the photos do not show are the many leaves which the pollen filter was also storing ; for not long the footwell became an autumn brown colour! They smelled lovely... I guess that did not help the condensation either!
A new pollen filter later, the vent correctly attached (why do people bodge things when it does not take much longer for the job to be performed correctly?).
After this the heater was awesome and all of the airvents had plenty of force!
It is surprising how the simple fixes can make the car so much easier to live with!
At around the same time my friend had the paperwork through to get his plates back. A sad detail here but I figured I would treat the car to some age related plates with a vague dealer touch to them. Not quite Euro plates I admit, but still better than nothing.
At the same time I picked up some Continental WinterContact tyres for the 15" wheels which were part of the deal, so as to prep the car for what the winter throws at it. It did different it has to be said from its previous guise but I was in for a surprise:
They do not look as bad as I thought they would but things can still do with improving.
The surprise I was in store for was the drive of the car. To put it bluntly it has literally been transformed on these wheels in more ways than one! Firstly there is the performance; the car seems to feel like it has gained at least 10BHP! Whilst the thermostat swap may have helped matters I cannot help thinking that the wheels helped (the M-Sport Style 68s are heavier than these, especially the rears!).
Then there is handling. The ride has improved no end but I guess that was to be expected with the baloon sidewalls. I put these wheels on with the temperatures still being in the low teens, where being winter tyres these should have been at a disadvantage ; How wrong I was. The car feels far more planted on country roads, it is miles safer to drive in the wet (it was a combination of understeer and oversteer heaven if going a little too fast, and not all stupidly either!), along with the turn in of the steering feeling simply fantastic, a far cry from the vagueness it had on the 17" wheels?
What was the cause? Who knows? The tyre pressures were correct for both wheels, but maybe it was due to the extra weight of the 17s, maybe it was also due to the fact that the 17s were on E46 sized tyres (225/45R17 and 245/40R17) rather than the E36 ones (215/45R17 and 235/40R17). OTOH maybe it was down to the tyres having cheapo budgets on, although they were fresh budgets with some peeps seeming to have a good opinion on them. Whatever the cause it has left me with a dilemna. So much for just a daily!
I prefer the 17s in terms of aesthetics but love the 15s for how the car feels! I have decided (for now) that I will most likely buy a set of 16" wheels or go for a set of lightweight 17" (boring I know, but Rays would have been on the wishlist, although cheap they are not!). How do other BMW 17" wheels (like the BBS RC041s) compare to the weight of my Style 68s? I do reckon that my issue is an unsprung weight one but what do you peeps reckon?
Oh, and some more shots:
Part of the windows not demisting well, despite driving the car for quite some time as well as poor airflow (mainly from the lower foot vent, but the rest were not much better) may have been down to this chap:
I cannot say it was the easiest pollen filter to change (it looks to be an afterthought in terms of design!), where I only had to remove the driver's side part of the dash as well as the footvent (which had been bodged back into place with some tape (the vent was not really on)). What the photos do not show are the many leaves which the pollen filter was also storing ; for not long the footwell became an autumn brown colour! They smelled lovely... I guess that did not help the condensation either!
A new pollen filter later, the vent correctly attached (why do people bodge things when it does not take much longer for the job to be performed correctly?).
After this the heater was awesome and all of the airvents had plenty of force!
It is surprising how the simple fixes can make the car so much easier to live with!At around the same time my friend had the paperwork through to get his plates back. A sad detail here but I figured I would treat the car to some age related plates with a vague dealer touch to them. Not quite Euro plates I admit, but still better than nothing
.
At the same time I picked up some Continental WinterContact tyres for the 15" wheels which were part of the deal, so as to prep the car for what the winter throws at it. It did different it has to be said from its previous guise but I was in for a surprise:
They do not look as bad as I thought they would but things can still do with improving
.The surprise I was in store for was the drive of the car. To put it bluntly it has literally been transformed on these wheels in more ways than one! Firstly there is the performance; the car seems to feel like it has gained at least 10BHP! Whilst the thermostat swap may have helped matters I cannot help thinking that the wheels helped (the M-Sport Style 68s are heavier than these, especially the rears!).
Then there is handling. The ride has improved no end but I guess that was to be expected with the baloon sidewalls. I put these wheels on with the temperatures still being in the low teens, where being winter tyres these should have been at a disadvantage ; How wrong I was. The car feels far more planted on country roads, it is miles safer to drive in the wet (it was a combination of understeer and oversteer heaven if going a little too fast, and not all stupidly either!), along with the turn in of the steering feeling simply fantastic, a far cry from the vagueness it had on the 17" wheels?
What was the cause? Who knows? The tyre pressures were correct for both wheels, but maybe it was due to the extra weight of the 17s, maybe it was also due to the fact that the 17s were on E46 sized tyres (225/45R17 and 245/40R17) rather than the E36 ones (215/45R17 and 235/40R17). OTOH maybe it was down to the tyres having cheapo budgets on, although they were fresh budgets with some peeps seeming to have a good opinion on them. Whatever the cause it has left me with a dilemna. So much for just a daily!
I prefer the 17s in terms of aesthetics but love the 15s for how the car feels! I have decided (for now
) that I will most likely buy a set of 16" wheels or go for a set of lightweight 17" (boring I know, but Rays would have been on the wishlist, although cheap they are not!). How do other BMW 17" wheels (like the BBS RC041s) compare to the weight of my Style 68s? I do reckon that my issue is an unsprung weight one but what do you peeps reckon?Oh, and some more shots:
Good choice of a 'Winter Car' !
I have had my E36 318iS for just over a year, and like yours, it needed quite a few issues sorting out...
It came with a set of E39 5 series staggered alloys (17s) which were rubbing the arches at the back, & the alignment was out as well. It also came with some Schnitzer -50mm lowering springs.
I found a set of Style 30 (?) 16s with tyres so they went on ( these I found out were the OEM wheels and matched the spare )
The car had not been used much prior to me buying it, so daily use generated some other issues...so it then had a set of refurbished exchange front calipers/discs/pads etc.
I then wanted to do a track day with the car, so found a set of 'tatty' 17 inch BMW alloys from an E46 with part worn but legal decent tyres on. These suited the car and improved the handling ( but, as you have discovered, not the ride !) I liked these alloys so much that I got them refurbished and they now look quite good...
[url]
I have been toying with the idea of selling the 16 inch Style 30s ( with decent Continental tyres ) but not sure about that !
So if they are any use to you I may be persuaded to part with them...
I have had my E36 318iS for just over a year, and like yours, it needed quite a few issues sorting out...
It came with a set of E39 5 series staggered alloys (17s) which were rubbing the arches at the back, & the alignment was out as well. It also came with some Schnitzer -50mm lowering springs.
I found a set of Style 30 (?) 16s with tyres so they went on ( these I found out were the OEM wheels and matched the spare )
The car had not been used much prior to me buying it, so daily use generated some other issues...so it then had a set of refurbished exchange front calipers/discs/pads etc.
I then wanted to do a track day with the car, so found a set of 'tatty' 17 inch BMW alloys from an E46 with part worn but legal decent tyres on. These suited the car and improved the handling ( but, as you have discovered, not the ride !) I liked these alloys so much that I got them refurbished and they now look quite good...
[url]I have been toying with the idea of selling the 16 inch Style 30s ( with decent Continental tyres ) but not sure about that !
So if they are any use to you I may be persuaded to part with them...
Nice E36. My 325i coupe is on it's original 15" Style 13s and is definitely the comfiest-riding car I've had, despite having M-Sport suspension.
It's just a nice car to drive, well balanced with a good ride-handling compromise. No way I'll be changing to bigger wheels.
Could do with an M52B28 engine upgrade though for the extra torque...
It's just a nice car to drive, well balanced with a good ride-handling compromise. No way I'll be changing to bigger wheels.
Could do with an M52B28 engine upgrade though for the extra torque...
Many thanks for the kind comments.
NiceCupOfTea, I had read your thread and it seems that you are having fun with that for sure! It also looks very clean!
Paul, I see you are having fun with yours as well. If I had known about this earlier I may have bought the wheels off you. Now it will be a trickier for me to do so (I bought this car back in October).
BGarside, I certainly found it well balanced on the stock 15s. The extra speed and agility surprised me more than anything.
Not much to update here!
The car was treated to another oil change (it has quietened down the tappets thankfully) as well as a fuel filter change. It was not a terrible starter before (quite good in fact) but it has made the car start better (barely a few turns from cold and it is alive) in addition to it feel a little perkier again! Placebo or coincidence with the cold weather?
NiceCupOfTea, I had read your thread and it seems that you are having fun with that for sure! It also looks very clean!
Paul, I see you are having fun with yours as well. If I had known about this earlier I may have bought the wheels off you. Now it will be a trickier for me to do so (I bought this car back in October
).BGarside, I certainly found it well balanced on the stock 15s. The extra speed and agility surprised me more than anything.
Not much to update here!
The car was treated to another oil change (it has quietened down the tappets thankfully) as well as a fuel filter change. It was not a terrible starter before (quite good in fact) but it has made the car start better (barely a few turns from cold and it is alive) in addition to it feel a little perkier again! Placebo or coincidence with the cold weather?
Always room for another E36 on PH 
Sorry if I missed it in the OP, how many miles on the clock?
Yep, thermostat is a classic issue and a worthwhile fix. Glad you didn't have any issues replacing it as it can be bothersome. Speaking of which, I share your sentiment regarding the pollen filter. Fiddly bugger!
FWIW, I think it looks a lot better on the 'correct' period OEM alloys rather than the later E46 items.
My winters are 16s, my summers are 17s (Alpina softlines). The ride is SO much better on 16s but there's no doubting the notably sharper turn in on 17s and better overall grip levels. I'm a tart at heart, so I'll be putting the 17s back on soon.
Sorry if I missed it in the OP, how many miles on the clock?
Yep, thermostat is a classic issue and a worthwhile fix. Glad you didn't have any issues replacing it as it can be bothersome. Speaking of which, I share your sentiment regarding the pollen filter. Fiddly bugger!
FWIW, I think it looks a lot better on the 'correct' period OEM alloys rather than the later E46 items.
My winters are 16s, my summers are 17s (Alpina softlines). The ride is SO much better on 16s but there's no doubting the notably sharper turn in on 17s and better overall grip levels. I'm a tart at heart, so I'll be putting the 17s back on soon.
Nice looking car, that, and the list of upgrades it came with should make it handle very neatly. I like it have you got any more jobs planned?
I've found both my E36 and E46 to be very sensitive to tyre choice, so I reckon that would have as much to do with it as the wheels when you swapped down to 15s. There is a decent weight different - your 15" Style 27s are 2kg lighter than the Style 68s per corner, and the 15" tyres would usually be a bit lighter too. If you fancy another set, I have four in pretty good condition that I want rid of (they won't fit over my soon-to-be-upgraded brakes).
Paul, that looks like a nice set of wheels, I have twelve Style 30s already but I can usually find an excuse for more
if you'd be prepared to strap them together in pairs and let a courier collect them, please PM me!
have you got any more jobs planned?I've found both my E36 and E46 to be very sensitive to tyre choice, so I reckon that would have as much to do with it as the wheels when you swapped down to 15s. There is a decent weight different - your 15" Style 27s are 2kg lighter than the Style 68s per corner, and the 15" tyres would usually be a bit lighter too. If you fancy another set, I have four in pretty good condition that I want rid of (they won't fit over my soon-to-be-upgraded brakes).
Paul, that looks like a nice set of wheels, I have twelve Style 30s already but I can usually find an excuse for more
if you'd be prepared to strap them together in pairs and let a courier collect them, please PM me!Nice clean looking car. The E36 is very much the unloved model these days but as the chavs and drifters kill off more and more of them, the good ones will be nice things to see.
The E36 is my favourite model of 3 series. I've driven or owned the later ones and everything is just too light and over assisted, such as the steering, etc. A good E36 with fresh brakes and suspension is still a great drivers car.
I found a great 328 Sport a few weeks ago so travelled down to Cambridge from Northumberland for it. Sod's law, a week later I found an even better one so travelled to Watford on Saturday for it. The second one really is fantastic. I'll have to update my car thread.
I'll be following this thread. I enjoyed your other ones too. An eclectic mix of cars. That's the best way.
Funnily enough I got a spare set of Style 30s with the first 328 Sport. It's on M3 sunflowers at the minute. I have bought a set of RC041/42s but don't need them now as the second 328 has mint RCs on it.
The E36 is my favourite model of 3 series. I've driven or owned the later ones and everything is just too light and over assisted, such as the steering, etc. A good E36 with fresh brakes and suspension is still a great drivers car.
I found a great 328 Sport a few weeks ago so travelled down to Cambridge from Northumberland for it. Sod's law, a week later I found an even better one so travelled to Watford on Saturday for it. The second one really is fantastic. I'll have to update my car thread.
I'll be following this thread. I enjoyed your other ones too. An eclectic mix of cars. That's the best way.
Funnily enough I got a spare set of Style 30s with the first 328 Sport. It's on M3 sunflowers at the minute. I have bought a set of RC041/42s but don't need them now as the second 328 has mint RCs on it.
Edited by marky911 on Thursday 5th March 13:15
That's right Nice cup of tea. Standard are clears all round. Mine have been changed.
28 page thread from previous, previous owner -
http://www.bmwowner.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&a...
5 page thread from Dann, the lad I bought it from.
http://www.e36coupe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&a...
Silly rear wing is gone. I've bought it as a sunny day car to tinker with when I eventually get some time. I plan on returning the headlights to standard, paint the calipers black as only super cars should have red calipers, and maybe redo the wheel centres back to silver.
Great car though. File of receipts for about £8k over the last 4 years.
Anyway, sorry for hijack Sebring Man.
28 page thread from previous, previous owner -
http://www.bmwowner.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&a...
5 page thread from Dann, the lad I bought it from.
http://www.e36coupe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&a...
Silly rear wing is gone. I've bought it as a sunny day car to tinker with when I eventually get some time. I plan on returning the headlights to standard, paint the calipers black as only super cars should have red calipers, and maybe redo the wheel centres back to silver.
Great car though. File of receipts for about £8k over the last 4 years.
Anyway, sorry for hijack Sebring Man.
Marky; I agree about the rear boot spoiler...mine had one fitted ( my 1998 318iS is a factory M Sport according to the original build sheet etc), so one of the first changes I made was to source a decent second hand Titan silver bootlid, which was in better condition than the original one. Cost me more in fuel than the lid actually cost to drive from Durham to Bristol to collect it, but I reckon it is worth it !
IMO the E36 coupe looks so much better and more discrete minus the rear wing: the lines are just about perfect without it. Silver is one of the best colours,but then I am biased !
I am considering getting a decent set of springs/dampers, but although the ride height is currently a bit too low, the car drives fine, and handled very well on a Track Day.
Not sure about spending over £500 to change the suspension which may end up giving the car a completely different ride etc
I agree that the 16" Style 30s give an overall 'better' ride....ie more supple, but with the 17s and decent 225/45s the handling is much sharper and the turn in more responsive, and I can put up with the tendency to 'tramline' as the car is more reactive to drive.
Apologies to the OP as well about going off topic !
IMO the E36 coupe looks so much better and more discrete minus the rear wing: the lines are just about perfect without it. Silver is one of the best colours,but then I am biased !
I am considering getting a decent set of springs/dampers, but although the ride height is currently a bit too low, the car drives fine, and handled very well on a Track Day.
Not sure about spending over £500 to change the suspension which may end up giving the car a completely different ride etc
I agree that the 16" Style 30s give an overall 'better' ride....ie more supple, but with the 17s and decent 225/45s the handling is much sharper and the turn in more responsive, and I can put up with the tendency to 'tramline' as the car is more reactive to drive.
Apologies to the OP as well about going off topic !
No worries for going off topic. It is always good to obtain a variety of viewpoints.
In all honesty my car did feel sharper on the 15s or at least to me. Backroads had the car feeling way more planted and surefooted. The fact that they were on cheapo tyres may had been one reason for this mind you but then the wheel package itself was much heavier than the stock 15s.
Like some peeps on here I ended up getting rid of this sensible coupe to get something far more sensible as a daily ; a Clio 172! One day I will get a vaguely sensible and cheap to run daily, although the Clio has been to closest I have been to that for some time.
In all honesty my car did feel sharper on the 15s or at least to me. Backroads had the car feeling way more planted and surefooted. The fact that they were on cheapo tyres may had been one reason for this mind you but then the wheel package itself was much heavier than the stock 15s.
Like some peeps on here I ended up getting rid of this sensible coupe to get something far more sensible as a daily ; a Clio 172! One day I will get a vaguely sensible and cheap to run daily, although the Clio has been to closest I have been to that for some time.
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